Advice For a Player's First (and only) BG1/2 Experience?

[JrK]

My suggestion for the BG1/BG2 thing is to play a fighter in 1, then dual to mage in 2. That way you'd get the best of both world. In BG1 you won't be the pansy after you cast your three magic missile and one web spell, and in BG2 you'll have the awesome spell selection at hand as well as some moderate archering/meleeing power. A fighter buffed by some of the mage's self-only spells is one of the most powerful things in the whole game.

 

[dolio]

There are suits of elven chain that won't disable your spells in BG2, as well.

 

[NuMystic]

The characters don't have any banters or quests to speak of in BG anyway. Unless you use a mod adding them. So it doesn't matter, really.

As already mentioned above, I will be playing with TuTu and the BG1NPC Project mod which adds a great a great deal of banters.

And banters aside, obviously every NPC choice brings totally different advantages/disadvantages to the table as far as skills and abilities.

Mac

Stopped reading.

Hm. Perhaps it's a limited duration spell and needs recasting...

*Mac*

To everyone else, thanks for your continued feedback!

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

My suggestion for the BG1/BG2 thing is to play a fighter in 1, then dual to mage in 2. That way you'd get the best of both world. In BG1 you won't be the pansy after you cast your three magic missile and one web spell, and in BG2 you'll have the awesome spell selection at hand as well as some moderate archering/meleeing power. A fighter buffed by some of the mage's self-only spells is one of the most powerful things in the whole game.

jrk is right

 

[Jasede]

I don't see why you'd want to be one of the most powerful builds on your only time through, but to each his own.

Then again, it does save time.

 

[Big Nose George]

Equip the ring... +1!
It's on the second? map in an anthill or a tree.

 

[JrK]

I don't see why you'd want to be one of the most powerful builds on your only time through, but to each his own.

Then again, it does save time.

If you are playing through only one time, for sure THAT would be the build I'd be taking. :D Versatility and good power. Had some awesome times with combinations of 5 attacks per round with Belm offhand and some other sword main, improved haste for 10 attacks per round, immunity to magic weapons via the spell, superpowering myself through Tenser's Transformation while having a Simulacrum of myself only slightly less effective getting all attention. Time Stop was just gravy. In that game munchkin was fun.

 

[NuMystic]

I don't see why you'd want to be one of the most powerful builds on your only time through, but to each his own.

Then again, it does save time.

Would you mind clarifying a bit?

Are you suggesting that dual-ing the Berserker to Mage at level 9 would result in having a character so overpowered (even in the hands of a complete newcomer) that you think it would spoil the enjoyment of the game?

If so, I don't quite understand your suggestion of dumping Khalid in favor of a more powerful alternative, and ironically suggesting the same thing for Imoen (dual her to mage)?

Why would you suggest in 2 different places to make the party stronger, but then claim to not understand why I was considering doing that for the PC. (while leaving Khalid in, and Imoen as she is)

And just to repeat what I originally said in the first place... I will probably not dual the PC.

If I choose to, it would simply be because I found by the end of BG1 that I was enjoying spell casting in general over a brute force approach.

I thought I'd made it entirely clear by now that I'm far more interested in simple enjoyment over any power-gaming concerns, as long as the choices aren't a downright handicap.

 

[JrK]

Would you mind clarifying a bit?

Are you suggesting that dual-ing the Berserker to Mage at level 9 would result in having a character so overpowered (even in the hands of a complete newcomer) that you think it would spoil the enjoyment of the game?

If so, I don't quite understand your suggestion of dumping Khalid in favor of a more powerful alternative, and ironically suggesting the same thing for Imoen (dual her to mage)?

Why would you suggest in 2 different places to make the party stronger, but then claim to not understand why I was considering doing that for the PC. (while leaving Khalid in, and Imoen as she is)

I think the point he's trying to make has to do with this particular dual class being HOLYCRAPTASTICBEATTHEGAMEWITHOUTTRYING powerful. While switching some chars in the party doesn't have that much of an impact. In fact, Imoen (or any single class thief) without a dual is pretty boring and useless compared to spellcasters/fighters. This is mostly due to the enormous gap in damage output between clerics/thieves and fighters. Extra attacks per round and more than 1* in weapon proficiency matter a lot.

And just to repeat what I originally said in the first place... I will probably not dual the PC.

If I choose to, it would simply be because I found by the end of BG1 that I was enjoying spell casting in general over a brute force approach.

I thought I'd made it entirely clear by now that I'm far more interested in simple enjoyment over any power-gaming concerns, as long as the choices aren't a downright handicap.

If you are going through only once, I'd strongly suggest dual classing regardless of your initial preferences. While my suggested dual class is powerful, it is also one of the most versatile and FUN builds in my experience. So if you are looking for simple enjoyment, I'd still recommend it. Go for a multi-class if you really dislike dual-classing, but DC gets more out of the game than MC honestly. Though... if you are going to MC a Fighter/Mage, I'd suggest to play a Blade Bard. It has some interesting special abilities and while it has fewer spells, it was more enjoyable for some reason. Dual Wield Kundane short sword (it is not in the stats but it gives 1 extra attack per round!) with a weapon of choice in BGII and do the Thespian quest in the Bridge District asap.

 

[Jasede]

I'd really just stick with a fighter myself... a Paladin or a Fighter or even a Ranger if you want. I find dual-classed to be a bit too iffy myself, and if you want two classes, just be a Fighter/Mage. You have the a similar potential for power, an interesting and fun character and none of the hassle.

 

[NuMystic]

The only reason I'd stick with the straight Fighter is due to the ease of use for a newcomer. (no need to micromanage, less choices to to get "wrong" like spells etc.)

But again, depending on how strong a handle I've got on the combat/spell system by the end of BG1, I have no problem with the idea of Dual Classing itself.

Thanks very much for the detailed reply JrK, that's exactly the kind of explanations I most need.

I'd really just stick with a fighter myself... a Paladin or a Fighter or even a Ranger if you want. I find dual-classed to be a bit too iffy myself, and if you want two classes, just be a Fighter/Mage. You have the a similar potential for power, an interesting and fun character and none of the hassle.

Okay, so this will be my last attempt at actually getting a clear answer from you Jasede.

Firstly, would you mind addressing at least some of the clarifying questions I asked above?

As for your follow up... "iffy"? "none of the hassle"? What is "iffy" about DC characters, and what is the "hassle" that comes with them in your opinion.

Could you please be less vague and actually explain the issues you're alluding to???

I recognize that these are entirely subjective views, which is fine, but I have no way of taking your thoughts into consideration if you don't share the actual reasoning!

I really would love to understand your actual perspective, but it will take a lot more explaining for me to make any sense of it.

 

[Serious_Business]

Jasede doesn't like dual classing mostly because his character is of an anal nature (pun intended). He never actually tried it in the game, it just seemed like too much trouble to him. There's your explanation. There's no valid, rational reason behind it. Don't forget though that with dual classing your character will be useless for a while (which might be the hassle he's talking about)

 

[Kingston]

I'd never get mods on the first playthrough and never ask for advice. You'll miss out on the authentic experience.

Edit: So yeah, stop what you're doing right now and play the damn game. Doesn't matter what class or stats you pick, you'll be able to finish the game.

 

[JrK]

Don't forget though that with dual classing your character will be useless for a while (which might be the hassle he's talking about)

This all depends on when you do what and in which part of the "trilogy". Lvl 3 in BGI? Not a problem. Lvl 7 in BGI? Expect to regain your older class abilities very late in the game. Lvl 9 in BGII? Excellent and what I'd recommend. The huge XP awards in this part makes regaining your older class abilities easy. Perhaps drop 2 party members for the time being and have a 4 player party. Do the easy quests. Lvl 13 for a dual class leads to the best results usually but takes a lot longer than lvl 9 due to the exponential XP/level increase. There are even some monkeys who wait until having gained a few High-Level Abilities for dualing...

 

[NuMystic]

Don't forget though that with dual classing your character will be useless for a while (which might be the hassle he's talking about)

I'm familiar with that from my old 1st Ed. PnP days, but my understanding is that when dualing (at 7 or 9) you can get the levels back fairly quickly between the increased xp at that point, spell scribing which also awards xp, and doing fetch quests.

I'd never get mods on the first playthrough and never ask for advice. You'll miss out on the authentic experience.

This isn't just going to be my "first" playthrough, it's going to be my only playthrough, hence the entire purpose of this thread.

I've owned BG1 since it first came out, but quit after the the first 12 hours, due to the tediously slow walking speed and poor inventory management. So if it wasn't for TuTu, the increased walking speed, and inventory stacking mods I wouldn't even be considering a BG1 run through, and would have simply skipped straight to BG2. So, mod-free playing is completely off the table.

I'm not the least bit concerned with an "authentic" BG1 experience, just enjoying myself. So I appreciate enormously all of the advice and recommendations that have greatly enhanced my ability to achieve exactly that.

 

[NuMystic]

Lvl 9 in BGII? Excellent and what I'd recommend.

If I dual, that's where It'll happen. Unless between TotSC and the xp cap being removed I find I get to level 9 before the end of BG1.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Hijacking the thread... as i suddenly decided to try BG2 out. I already did a try, but it ended nowhere.

Few questions regarding combat and generelly D&D:

First: is it expected to first try the hard opponents to figure out what they cast/do and then reload make relevant spells ready, rest and come back and buff?

as i seam always lack the "right" spells (and right numbers of it) and even if i had them, all my team is screwed (confused/dominated/drained) in a blink of an eye, so with my 1-2 casters i hardly can take back control in time and just sit through some conditions.

Second: Mages. They cast all kind of stuff, which appears in combat window. Well i figured it out i should go for "Remove Magic" und "Breach". But i never can be sure wtf happened, as there seams no way to check out, whats still on and whats got removed. Combat window just says "ineffective" or "magic dispelled". I still win fights, but it seams kinda lucky (with no certain knowledge of doing what i wanted and seeing it succeed).

Oh and is Keldorn a must have? I currently got Aerie, Korgan, Minsc, Jaheira and Yoshimo. I am playing Kensai/Mage myself inspired by the thread. Advices regarding the party are welcome!

P.S. I do read the manual .

 

[JrK]

First: is it expected to first try the hard opponents to figure out what they cast/do and then reload make relevant spells ready, rest and come back and buff?

You can do that but it is not necessary. It is possible to defeat enemies without spells as well. Just try with the resources that you have and if you fail a reload is always an option. Unless you man the fuck up and play iron man ofcourse. :wink: In the end with some experience you will always have "the" optimal spell selection but it is by no means necessary.

as i seam always lack the "right" spells (and right numbers of it) and even if i had them, all my team is screwed (confused/dominated/drained) in a blink of an eye, so with my 1-2 casters i hardly can take back control in time and just sit through some conditions.

Sound like you need either to give your "tanks" better saving throw items or immunity items, or take Korgan or Minsc and let them use Berserk which will make them immune to these annoying effects. Or you can cast "chaotic commands" (cleric spell) on your partymembers.

Second: Mages. They cast all kind of stuff, which appears in combat window. Well i figured it out i should go for "Remove Magic" und "Breach". But i never can be sure wtf happened, as there seams no way to check out, whats still on and whats got removed. Combat window just says "ineffective" or "magic dispelled". I still win fights, but it seams kinda lucky (with no certain knowledge of doing what i wanted and seeing it succeed).

Spells have visual effects, and you can tell stuff is dispelled if the visual effects disappear. Get to know these effects. Breach will, by the way, dispell ALL effects which prevent your warrior from hurting them. So if you breached them, prepare the smackdown.

Oh and is Keldorn a must have? I currently got Aerie, Korgan, Minsc, Jaheira and Yoshimo. I am playing Kensai/Mage myself inspired by the thread. Advices regarding the party are welcome!

Keldorn is certainly the party member that would solve your problems. His "Dispel Magic" works almost 100% of the time and it will remove ALL of the enemy's magical protection except permanent effects. That said, no party member is necessary as the game can be finished by the weakest of classes solo.

 

[jagged-jimmy]

Thanks.
Well i know that spells arent necessary, and i do win, but i am trying to "get" the gameplay and D&D.

Sound like you need either to give your "tanks" better saving throw items or immunity items, or take Korgan or Minsc and let them use Berserk which will make them immune to these annoying effects. Or you can cast "chaotic commands" (cleric spell) on your partymembers.

Yea, i dicovered that spell and it works great, but its only 1 char at a time, so the number of casts plays a role as the next fight is coming for sure. So after that retreat and rest?

Spells have visual effects, and you can tell stuff is dispelled if the visual effects disappear. Get to know these effects. Breach will, by the way, dispell ALL effects which prevent your warrior from hurting them. So if you breached them, prepare the smackdown.

Well i see that some visual effect are gone, but some "spheres" are sometimes still there and i cant tell why and what they are as there is no list of current effects (only the list what he DID cast at fight start). But i guess i have to coop with that.

Keldorn sounds great, i might dump annoying Minsc for him. Why is his "Dispel Magic" different?

 

[Quilty]

POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT

***

Doesn't Yoshimo turn against you once you reach the boss battle in Spellhold? I seem to remember that happening and being pissed off that I'd wasted my hard-earned XP on him.

Edit: Oh, and Keldorn is a must when facing vampires. During my first playthrough I got raped by level drains and several of my characters got killed half a dozen times in the vampire tombs. The second time I played I picked up Keldorn because I'd dropped that annoying shit Minsc so I had an empty slot. Suffice it to say that the vampires quickly became the easiest enemy I faced all through the game.

 

[Big Nose George]

Now you basically saved a fella from rage... How could you?

Pick up the pantaloons if you really are running through BG1/2.

I have a question. I vaguely remember Minsc or that Irenicus dude doing somewhere around 200 dmg per hit with a fancy vortex animation from time to time in ToB. Never bothered to check where it came from. Any ideas?

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I've owned BG1 since it first came out, but quit after the the first 12 hours, due to the tediously slow walking speed and poor inventory management. So if it wasn't for TuTu, the increased walking speed, and inventory stacking mods I wouldn't even be considering a BG1 run through

I hear Sonic the hedgehog is pretty fast and stacks rings just fine.

 

[JrK]

Keldorn sounds great, i might dump annoying Minsc for him. Why is his "Dispel Magic" different?

Because it is cast at twice his level. Even Irenicus can't beat that.

I have a question. I vaguely remember Minsc or that Irenicus dude doing somewhere around 200 dmg per hit with a fancy vortex animation from time to time in ToB. Never bothered to check where it came from. Any ideas?

Hmm. I think the person you are referring to is Sarevok who has a 5% chance to do a Deathbringer assault for 200 piercing damage every hit. I can't remember a vortex animation for any attack but I haven't played ToB much anyway so...

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

sometimes it's most effective to only send 1 prepared partymember to combat, e.g. you could prepare Korgan, cast protection spells on him protection from fire/acid/cold/shock, chaotic commands, give him an item with leveldrain immunity when facing vampires (e.g. mace of disruption), then cast Improved haste on him for double movement and double attacks per round and watch the chopping, have him rage when facing mages because he is immune to many effects while raging.
Acquire and use the resources the game offers, buy all green protection scrolls from temples, use potions commulatively, 2 potions of fire resistance = 100% fire resistance, potions of spell resistance, for difficult encounters use potions of mindfocusing (bring DEX up to 25 for better AC, also increases INT useful for fighting mindflayers).

As a Kensai mage there are a few spells which are your bread and butter:
- Spirit Armor: get AC 0 (like Full Plate +1)
- Stoneskin
- Mirror Image
- Blur (-3 AC, commulative)
- IMPROVED HASTE

my most used spells:

- MM
- Chromatic Orb (gets a death effect at lvl12 )
- Spook (has an increasing save penalty)
- Blur
- Mirror Image
- Acid Arrow (can interrupt casting for a few rounds)
- Sculltrap (not capped at 10d6 gets better and better)
- Flamearow (not capped at 10d6 gets better and better)
- MMM (they strike as +5, can be used by mages with cast and attack, cast a spell then spent the rest of the round with attacking something with minute meteors, mages get 5 attacks per round with those)
- Remove magic (better than Dispel, use several copies in sequencers to increase chances that it hits at low levels)
- Pro Fire/Cold, long duration protection spells
- Emotion (underrated spell, can have tremendous effect, use in tandem with malison)
- Farsight (useful at higher levels while using Projected Images & Timestop, because if you move the image to far away from the caster it *disappaers* in the FOW you can't control it, Farsight solves that)
- Fireshield Red/Blue (contrary to description attackers get damaged when they hit you, not only when they damage you, so if their attacks get absorbed by stoneskins they still suffer the retaliation)
- Greater Malison (very important spell, use as combat opener, serves as preparation for many other spells that allow a save)
- Improved Invisibility (you can't be targeted with spells under this effect)
- Minor Sequencer (offensive: 2x MM, 2x Acid Arrow, 2x Chr Orb, defensive: Blur & Mirror Image, or as Cleric/Mage like Aerie : Doom & Chromatic Orb a one shot killer with a save penalty attached)
- Spirit Armor
- Stoneskin
- Teleport Field (can have uses, it's annoying enough if used at you)
- Animate Dead (gets good as soon as you get Skeleton Warriors, but also the normal skeletons are good enough at low lvl since you get a couple of them at once)
- Breach is necessary
- Cloudkill, don't memorize use wands
- Feeblemind (hit a caster with it)
- Lower Resistance (some creatures are spell resistant)
- Pro Acid/Electricity
- Spell Immunity (become Immune to a whole school of magic, e.g. Abjuration, dispel or Imprisonment, or Divination, true sight)
- Spell Shield (block the first breaching attempt like Breach, spell strike etc)
- Sunfire (good damage, ignores spell resistance = drow killer, use in triggers: 3x sunfire)
- Contingiency (cast a spell up to lvl6 without interruption, doesn't count towards 1 spell per round rule)
- Death Fog
- Death Spell (kill weak critters, dismiss summons)
- Improved Haste
- Mislead (stay improved invisible as long as the mislead image exists, park it in safety)
- Pierce Magic
- Pro Magical Energy, long term protection from energy damage spells like MM, Skulltrap, Abi Dhalzims)
- Protection from Magical Weapons (become immune to all weapons that are at least +1)
- Summon Nishruu (see a lich? summon a nishruu for it to play with)
- True Sight (only if you don't have a cleric or inquisitor with true seeing)
- Project Image( copy your caster plus his spellbook to go nova in an encounter for the mere cost of 1 lvl7 spell)
- Spell Sequencer (the possibilities are legion, offensive or defensive, 1xMalison + 2x Remove Magic, 3x Skulltrap, 3x Flamearrow at lvl 20 that'd be 60d6, Malison+Remove Magic+ Emotion, Stoneskin+Imp Invis+ Spirit Armor etc etc)
- Ruby Ray (basically Ruby Ray, Breach and Remove Magic are the only dispelling spells you really need, using others doesn't harm, but those 3 are basic, Ruby Ray to remove spellprotections like spellshield or spell trap, breach to remove combat protection like Stoneskin or ProMW and remove magic to dispell everything else, note that remove magic will work even with liches although they are otherwise immune to spell below lvl6, however they are highlevel so your chances to hit with the dispell are not very good early on -> sequencer with 3x remove magic increases your chances)
- summon hakeashar (better version of nishruu)
- Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting is the best damage spell
- Incendiary Cloud (nice vs liches like kangaxx, he won't be damaged, but he will fail his spellcasting all the time)
- Pierce Shield
- PW:Blind
- Pro Energy
- Simulacrum (get a copy of you Kensai Mage that can cast and fight, with all your equipment copied too, that's one of the best spells, another Kensai/Mage for free)
- Spell Trigger (like sequnecer only better cuz it can hold up to lvl6 spells)
- Chain Contingiency (can contain up to lvl8 spells, use it in the same round as spell trigger to apply 6 spells of your choosing at once)
- Time Stop (stop the time then go nova or just start the chopping)
- Wish for resting (use convenient wishes mod if you don't like reloading until the rest option shows up: http://www.spellholdstudios.net/ie/bigg)
- PW:Kill (damage a strong opponent a bit, quickly end the fight with PW:Kill)
- Dragon Breath
- Energy Blades (for pure mages very good, 9 attacks per round with -10 THAC0-> cast & attack)
- Improved Alacrity (gain permanant aura cleansing thus removing the 1 spell per round rule, cast cast cast nonstop)
- Summon Planetar (those planetars kick some serious butt with their vorpal blade plus they can take a beating too, the best summon)

 

[Big Nose George]

I have a question. I vaguely remember Minsc or that Irenicus dude doing somewhere around 200 dmg per hit with a fancy vortex animation from time to time in ToB. Never bothered to check where it came from. Any ideas?

Hmm. I think the person you are referring to is Sarevok who has a 5% chance to do a Deathbringer assault for 200 piercing damage every hit. I can't remember a vortex animation for any attack but I haven't played ToB much anyway so...

Oh shit, I misplaced the villains. Thanks.