Chris Avellone needs help on romance

[Jasede]

Thanks KC, I came.

 

[Spectacle]

You have to wonder why they don't put the proper Conan subtext in most RPGs. The reason Conan has no money, also Grey Mouser and Faffrd is that they are spending all their fat loot on getting laid and getting drunk.

This could actually work as an Adults Only game. You do quests to get money, and then spend that money to get access to porn sequences.

 

[spacemoose]

You have to wonder why they don't put the proper Conan subtext in most RPGs. The reason Conan has no money, also Grey Mouser and Faffrd is that they are spending all their fat loot on getting laid and getting drunk.

This could actually work as an Adults Only game. You do quests to get money, and then spend that money to get access to porn sequences.

 

[mytgroo]

I don't think it would be that hard to design love interests for nerds playing RPGs, just dress an elf up like tomb raider, and make them slightly socially dumb and you've got a perfect love interest for a lot of young RPGers.

 

[Ladonna]

I don't think it would be that hard to design love interests for nerds playing RPGs, just dress an elf up like tomb raider, and make them slightly socially dumb and you've got a perfect love interest for a lot of young RPGers.

Uh, isn't that what they do already?

With Rabbit girls, and Cat girls, Elves, Vampires.... All the nerd fantasies are already catered for. Bioware seems to throw Elves at the male player ad nauseum.

This could actually work as an Adults Only game. You do quests to get money, and then spend that money to get access to porn sequences.

Hmm. Try Oblivion with Japanese mods, I am sure you will be in heaven.

 

[RK47]

I don't think it would be that hard to design love interests for nerds playing RPGs, just dress an elf up like tomb raider, and make them slightly socially dumb and you've got a perfect love interest for a lot of young RPGers.

Uh, isn't that what they do already?

With Rabbit girls, and Cat girls, Elves, Vampires.... All the nerd fantasies are already catered for. Bioware seems to throw Elves at the male player ad nauseum.

Uh. Yeah I don't think there's any original ideas left, most of the Japanese porn game industry has done it. Cowboy Elves, Immortal Knights. Cat Medieval Priests, Goddess, Robot Girl, Virtual AI-Girl, Fairies, Dick-waving girls, Ninjas, Samurais, Knights, Sorceress, Sickly sister, Stepsister, Rich princess, Vampire Princess, Mermaids, Robot pilot, Policewoman, Secretary, desperate housewives, zombie-girls, pedophiles, gothic lolitas, clones. gay. lesbian. your own step mom. transgender transformations. furry fucking. sex-while-being-decapitated. gruesome consequences of a romance scenario (i.e slashed, suicide).

However, most of them are not RPG. Just Text Adventures with static 2D Background & Graphic with Talking Heads. Maybe Mr. Avellone can draw some inpiration from those examples.

 

[Woetohice]

__

 

[Keldryn]

I think that romances can add a lot to a good RPG, if they're well-done. Love is one of the strongest motivators of human behaviour, and I do find it odd when it's not even an option in a game that is strongly character-focused. If it's done poorly, then it runs the risk of ruining the suspension of disbelief.

I prefer it if the romance is not forced upon the player by the storyline, but some games do it well enough that I don't mind. The romance between "Tidus" and Yuna in Final Fantasy X, for example, worked very well and didn't feel that forced -- in my opinion. The romance between the Avatar and Raven in Ultima IX, on the other hand, did feel forced and intrusive and was rather poorly-done overall. "Squall" and Rinoa in Final Fantasy VIII didn't really work that well either, partly because "Squall" was a generally unlikable, whiny putz of a protagonist (are we done with the anti-hero fetish yet? PLEASE?)

The romances with Aerie, Jaheira, and Viconia in Baldur's Gate 2 were all well done, as were Carth and Bastila in Knights of the Old Republic and Nastassia in Ultima VII. The "romances" in Treasures of the Savage Frontier were rather stupid (and you didn't have any choice in the matter).

I don't agree with Avellone's stance on unrequited love. Just like the fascination with anti-heroes in modern games, the whole unrequited love thing is getting as cliched and stereotyped as the happy endings.

I don't agree with the ban on consummation either. It's a natural part of a romantic relationship, and if he has that big of an issue with it happening in the game (not explicitly, of course unless you want the dreaded AO rating), then I think it's his issues coming into play. It's not the be-all and end-all of a relationship, but a part of a developing romance, and it can have a rather important role in that part of the story. For example (non-game), the last half of the second season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That's "choices and consequences" right there, and the finale of that season is just as heart-breaking every time I see it as it was the first time. Something like that in a game, where the player actually has to make that decision, could be one of the most emotionally powerful moments ever to appear in a game. In this example, the consequences of not doing what she did and living "happily ever after" with your beloved while watching everybody else you care about die horribly would be a pretty chilling endgame.

(I'm not suggesting re-creating the same situation as in Buffy in a game, it's just an example)

 

[Severian Silk]

The only NPC I can remember having the hots for was Tandi from Fallout. I wanted to throw Bastila off a cliff.

In JRPGs you have this weird cosmic love for characters, but I wouldn't really call that romance.

 

[MetalCraze]

as were Carth and Bastila in Knights of the Old Republic

"Bastila wants to talk to you"
"shut up bitch! and don't even talk to me evah!"
....
"I'm on the dark side, Darth Malak rules"
"But I love you, bitch!"
"You know - I love you too!"

oh yes.

The romances with Aerie, Jaheira, and Viconia in Baldur's Gate 2 were all well done

but here I agree. All three represent totally different character-types. If only Obsidian did that in NWN2... Neeshka, Elanee and Qara... all different with Neeshka pwning them all... eeeh

Hmm. Try Oblivion with Japanese mods, I am sure you will be in heaven.

They are so sooo sick people!! That's outrageous!!
*waiting for mods adaptations for eng oblivion...*

just dress an elf up like tomb raider, and make them slightly socially dumb and you've got a perfect love interest for a lot of young RPGers.

Screw Elanee! Oh wait... that's the only thing you will have to do with her in the end...

 

[Keldryn]

"Bastila wants to talk to you"
"shut up bitch! and don't even talk to me evah!"
....
"I'm on the dark side, Darth Malak rules"
"But I love you, bitch!"
"You know - I love you too!"

oh yes.

What was most cool about them was the different ways in which they could work out. If you were a "Light Side" male your love for Bastila could redeem her, or if you weren't careful about what you said, you would lose her forever. If you were a "Dark Side" male, you could lose her as well if you weren't careful, but you could also use her for your own purposes, or overthrow Malak and become the new Sith Lord with her ruling the galaxy at your side.

With Carth, if you were a "Dark Side" female, he would try to redeem you and returned in the end game sequence to give it one last try. I think that you could redeem yourself at that moment, but I chose to just cut him down in cold blood and rule the galaxy by myself.

It's a lot deeper than what you quoted.

but here I agree. All three represent totally different character-types. If only Obsidian did that in NWN2... Neeshka, Elanee and Qara... all different with Neeshka pwning them all... eeeh

I haven't played it. It would run painfully slow on my PC.

 

[MetalCraze]

It's a lot deeper than what you quoted.

I completed Kotor 7 times, so I tried everything there and once I tried to ignore Bastila and even bully her.
But in the end I had a very very high charisma, so even after that shit I've done to her she loved me.
I don't think that this is logically. Will you love someone who is very beautiful but thinks that you're a shit?

I haven't played it. It would run painfully slow on my PC.

after patch 1.04 I was able to run NWN2 normally with low-quality shadows (but all shadows turned on) and everything else to max in 1024x768 at athlon xp 2500, 1gb ram and gf6600 256 mbs.
and it seems that Avellone designed Neeshka. Because she painfully looks like Annah. Come to think of it, Annah's romance was good too, and PS:T was before BG2. And I really really was freaking touched by that what happened to her in the end.

But still I think that Avellone is not very good at romances. But when it comes to athmosphere... I loved Kotor2 because it was so dark, as was PS:T, as was Fallout2. Kotor2 - despite shitloads of bugs and stupid unfinished romances which hopefully Team Gizka will fix.

 

[Elwro]

I don't think that this is logically. Will you love someone who is very beautiful but thinks that you're shit?

I've seen a life ruined (thankfully only temporarily) by something like that, it's possible.

 

[Bradylama]

Love has no logic.
(aw yeah that's some Confucious shit right there)

 

[Mayday]

Confuscius said: love is like picking on the nose- you need a lot of luck to get something out of it.

 

[MetalCraze]

I've seen a life ruined (thankfully only temporarily) by something like that, it's possible.

Damn it. I think Bastila is out of luck with me }

 

[Keldryn]

I completed Kotor 7 times, so I tried everything there and once I tried to ignore Bastila and even bully her.
But in the end I had a very very high charisma, so even after that shit I've done to her she loved me.
I don't think that this is logically. Will you love someone who is very beautiful but thinks that you're a shit?

It happens all of the time. There's very little that is logical about attraction and love. Women fall in love with and keep going back to men who have no respect for them and treat them like shit all of the time. I've had my own experiences that are somewhat similar.

 

[Jasede]

That must have been tough for you, Keldryn.

But I hope you meet a man who will treat you as you deserve it.

 

[Keldryn]

That must have been tough for you, Keldryn.

She was an extremely manipulative and selfish woman, blamed me for all of her problems, got angry if I didn't agree with her or do what she wanted, and nothing was ever good enough for her. I wouldn't wish a woman like that on anybody.

Thankfully, I'm happily married to an amazing woman and don't have to worry about that kind of shit anymore. Neither does she, and she's certainly had her share of being treated like crap in a relationship.

 

[Kingston]

I don't think any of us really care.

 

[kingcomrade]

Oh damn I should've posted this here.

 

[Keldryn]

I don't think any of us really care.

Then don't read it and don't respond to it.

 

[MetalCraze]

Oh damn I should've posted this here.

Damn it - it could be used by Avellone as an idea for his next romance script!