Civilization V is Dead

[Angthoron]

Yeah, my post was meant to point out that calling it "online DRM" is sensationalist, especially when compared to Ubisoft's recent DRM.

Well, what's sensationalist in calling a DRM system a DRM? Take a look at Steamworks, they pretty much admit it, except call it a different name and say that it uses a different principle. Still, different DRMs used different approaches since times of manuals and decoder rings from the 80ies, some looser, some harsher, like StarForce or Ubi's Whatever.

Thing is, I don't mind Steam as such. I don't mind using it as an alternative source of purchase. I've even bought some stuff off it. What I do mind, just like Fez mentioned earlier, is that I have to have it installed, running, authenticating, updating, spying. I don't want it. And I don't want achievements. I don't want a social experience from a single-player game, I'd play it multi-player if I wanted to.

When I play a single-player game I want to have fun on my own, fun that doesn't involve a book, a film, or hot ladies getting it on. Just. On. My. Own. I want good gameplay, good AI, hell, a good story even. Nothing else. Okay, decent graphics as well.

 

[OSK]

All this bitching and no one mentioned the zero day DLC? $10 for a single fucking Civilization.

I pre-ordered Civ 4 and I got a nice collector's edition at no extra cost.

 

[Fez]

Don't worry, that issue got an airing in another thread.

 

[Angthoron]

All this bitching and no one mentioned the zero day DLC? $10 for a single fucking Civilization.

I pre-ordered Civ 4 and I got a nice collector's edition at no extra cost.

About this I raged in silence and only the stars were the witness of my fury.

Frankly it's not surprising. The publisher wants to jump the bandwagon of DLC, and what can you sell for Civ other than civilisations? Nothing comes to my mind at least. It is vastly disappointing though, and to top it, it's a 0-day release.

...Actually, scratch that. Sex cards DLC and new dialogue options in Diplomacy - now there is a DLC I'd buy.

 

[Lyesmith]

With all those awkward changes, it meant to be torrented anyway.

Yet another bad signs.

 

[lefthandblack]

Once again, a game goes from a definite buy to absolutely will not buy.
I railed against steam from it's inception and have stuck to my guns by not purchasing a single title that requires it, and I never will.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Meh, storm in a teacup.

I love steam. I just checked - I have 78 games purchased through steam, most at ridiculously low cost. (takeing advantage of a lot of the weekly/yearly sales). For instance, I just picked up Civ 4 complete - all expansions + Colonization for $10AU. That's what?, 2 bucks a piece!

Never had any problems with it and I've been using it since HL2 came out. You can choose to not auto-update your games and install the patches manually if that's what you prefer. I backup my games and only have the ones I'm currently playing installed.

I create shortcuts to the games so steam only runs when I want it to. Every game I've tried runs perfectly in off-line mode - so there's no problem there either.

As digital distribution/drm systems go - it's the best I've come across. Saved me heaps of time and money.

Edit: Not to mention the fact that Valve actively supports indie developers and the modding community. Introversion Software (Darwinia) have said Valve/Steam literally saved their company from going under.

 

[Grunker]

I can play it offline? - Yep. Can I have it on a CD? - Yep.

Don't. Really. Care. Then.

I'm still going to buy it if it's any good. Don't really see what all the fuzz is about.

 

[Felix]

Typical of Steam trick you into thinking you own the game while actually, you're not.

 

[Angthoron]

Sheesh, it's like I'm reading IGN forums all of a sudden. Where's the vitriol, people? Corporations bend you over and you smile and say it's good? Disappointing.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

I'm less bothered by steam than the day one DLC...

Can't wait for the "civilizations of south america" DLC (15$), "modern comfort" luxury resource DLC (5$), or the "all your units have CSI style sunglasses" DLC (2$).

 

[Grunker]

I'm less bothered by steam than the day one DLC...

Can't wait for the "civilizations of south america" DLC (15$), "modern comfort" luxury resource DLC (5$), or the "all your units have CSI style sunglasses" DLC (2$).

'xactly.

 

[Elwro]

Typical of Steam trick you into thinking you own the game while actually, you're not.

Actually, I'm pretty sure bits like this have been in the EULAs no one cares to read for years now.

I'm more pissed about the cut content going to paid DLCs, but perhaps it's unreasonable. Civ 4 vanilla was already a fantastic game when I bought the first edition in a box. It felt huge and complete; of course, one could see that the modern times weren't developed very well, but there was no feeling of something having been deliberately removed from the game. Now, if e.g. Saladin was not in the box, but available as a $2 DLC on release day, would I be pissed? Yes. But would the game really be noticeably worse? Perhaps not (for most people).

 

[Angthoron]

I think it's less of the fact of the availability of DLC that's pissing off and more the actual trend. If their DLC succeeds, they'll continue selling nations. Is it bad? Not really, I suppose, it might be like selling forum avatars. If you want to play with the basic set, there you go. If you want to show off your, say, Polish origins, pay $2 at the cashier.

However, what next? If they can sell nations, they can sell commodities, graphics packs, maps and campaigns. I know many people hated Witcher for doing a re-publishing with "Extended Edition", now think how people would feel if instead of actually offering all of it for free for existing customers, they'd sell voice packs and graphics upgrades as DLCs. After all, you can play TW without that!

And this is where Steam and Steam-likes come in to be blamed. You can't sell DLCs without easy-access digital distribution networks like Steam, Microsoft WhoCares or the newfangled BNet. The phenomena are interconnected.

 

[Angthoron]

Saying Steam is the reason for DLC is entirely wrong, and a strawman argument. The blame lies with Bethesda (horse armor) & The Sims, flight/train/bus/derp simulators, and game consoles.

Um, what? Let's get this one thing straight here. Bethesda didn't create its own distribution center to sell DLCs. You buy them through Microsoft. The Sims DLCs are sold through EA's Whatever or in DVD packs of clothes and furniture. The simulators... Not going to touch that part as I've not studied the question, not being a simulator buff.

And now, surprise, Civ V DLCs are not sold by Bethesda, they're not sold in Sims packages, and they're certainly not being bundled with flight simulators. They are sold through the uber-convenient, super-lovable Steam. Where's the strawman? If you take it as a rag before a raging bull, rushing to champion the cause of a multi-billion corporation because, dear me, someone dares say that it's distributing DLCs and making a profit out of it, it's not a strawman, it's your own reaction to it.

Oh, and I've not said Steam is responsible for DLCs, I said digital distribution, of which Steam was mentioned as an example, is responsible. Redding is teh hard.

 

[Fez]

I miss the days when special editions of games came with cloth maps, novellas and pewter models, instead of a couple of dollars of digital content cut from the normal game.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I miss the days when special editions of games came with cloth maps, novellas and pewter models, instead of a couple of dollars of digital content cut from the normal game.

 

[Ryuken]

Steam ain't perfect but you have been missing out on a lot what makes PC gaming worthwhile if you've been boycotting it all the time. It's a form of DRM yes, but imo it's nowhere near as criminal as Securom authentication or Ubisoft's DRM. The community features on top are handy and not obtrusive at all, period.

That Steam allows for ridiculous paid DLC like Empire's mini-content, skin packs or those exclusive pre-order bonuses is awful idd but pls don't portray it as Valve trying to urge every other developer on its service to keep on doing this, they just advanced with the market (things like the extra content happens with retail pre-order deals just as well). Most paid mini-DLC packs on Steam are from those fabled small indie developers anyway which is perhaps the biggest joke in all this controversy.

My biggest concerns about Steam are its current near-monopoly position (which is never good), the slow patching on patch release day and that retail packages lose their worth: less big manuals and other fluff, just all digital. That's something that shouldn't happen.

For the rest it's just fine.

 

[Frau Bishop]

Steam ain't perfect but you have been missing out on a lot what makes PC gaming worthwhile if you've been boycotting it all the time.

Oh? What would that be?

 

[Ryuken]

Every single Valve game since HL², the hilariously cheap Steam deals and of course some Steamworks-only games: Red Orchestra, Killing Floor, Zeno Clash, Torchlight, Trine, Just Cause 2, Dawn of War II + Chaos Rising and Supreme Commander 2. And Empire/Napoleon but that's not really a positive point since all the trite that came with those TCA titles.

Not everything is applicable to me as I don't buy anything online but most of those titles got a retail release as well and I don't have many complaints about the service itself other than the stuff mentioned in my previous post.

Again, Steam ain't the perfect future imo, but it's definitely a big part of the current PC gaming market.

 

[Shannow]

Steam = no sale from me

And I really, really wanted to buy this one.

This.

Yeah, my post was meant to point out that calling it "online DRM" is sensationalist, especially when compared to Ubisoft's recent DRM.

"I killed thousands, you only one or two. You can hardly call yourself a murderer." Is that really the way you want to argument?

Yeah, and this process is exactly the same as patching any other single player game you've ever patched before in your life, which requires brief access to the internet...

Only I have a choice whether I want to patch any other game or not. I also have the choice of which patch I want. Because, you know, not all patches are good...
And Steam often has issues with mods. And it's not like the Civs are mod heavy games, no sir.

Every single Valve game since HL², the hilariously cheap Steam deals and of course some Steamworks-only games: Red Orchestra, Killing Floor, Zeno Clash, Torchlight, Trine, Just Cause 2, Dawn of War II + Chaos Rising and Supreme Commander 2. And Empire/Napoleon but that's not really a positive point since all the trite that came with those TCA titles.

http://isohunt.com/

 

[GarfunkeL]

What is this bullshit I read? Am I on GameFAQs? Defending Steam now?

I can play it offline? - Yep. Can I have it on a CD? - Yep. Don't. Really. Care. Then. I'm still going to buy it if it's any good. Don't really see what all the fuzz is about.

You moron. You still need to connect to Steam if you want to install it. You need internet connection so it can call home and check. No internet connection - no installing.

I'm less bothered by steam than the day one DLC...

I'm more annoyed by Steam but to see that Firaxis has fallen for DLC as well, as did Paradox earlier, does erode what little faith in humanity I have left.

 

[lefthandblack]

You moron. You still need to connect to Steam if you want to install it. You need internet connection so it can call home and check. No internet connection - no installing.

Exactly. I'm opposed to steam and steamlike systems on pure principle alone. The real clincher is that I couldn't even use it if I wanted to. I live in the sticks, so the only option I have for internet service is satellite with a fair-access-policy that limits me to a strict diet of 200MB in any 24 hour period. The only exception to this rule is the time window between 1am and 6am where you can download as much as you want. Given that, if I were to use steam, I would have to constantly schedule my games updates during this time period and if a new 300mb patch had just come out when I was feeling like playing a particular game at say, 1pm, I would be shit outta luck.

 

[Ryuken]

Every single Valve game since HL², the hilariously cheap Steam deals and of course some Steamworks-only games: Red Orchestra, Killing Floor, Zeno Clash, Torchlight, Trine, Just Cause 2, Dawn of War II + Chaos Rising and Supreme Commander 2. And Empire/Napoleon but that's not really a positive point since all the trite that came with those TCA titles.

http://isohunt.com/

Good luck with getting decent multiplayer up with pirated copies, not to mention getting your game up-to-date. Searching for TF2's 119th update crack on such a site is gonna get more tedious than launching Steam every now and then.

"I killed thousands, you only one or two. You can hardly call yourself a murderer." Is that really the way you want to argument?

You might want to highlight that incredibly big and exciting portfolio of games which haven't been tainted by online authentications or some obscure copy protection schemes then.

No DRM (or copy protection or obliged internet updates) is always the best and most ideal option for the consumer but that's never gonna happen unless companies like Stardock gain a bigger share of the market and can impose their will/corporate ethics on publishers but they won't. Publishers will only start changing their opinions on this subject when a big no-drm game gets a huge success on PC. Not even "consumer-friendly" Blizzard is willing to take any chances here.

 

[Sceptic]

You might want to highlight that incredibly big and exciting portfolio of games which haven't been tainted by online authentications or some obscure copy protection schemes then.

Do you really want to go there? Unless your definition of "big and exciting portfolio of games" is limited to the past 5 or so years it's going to be a VERY long list. As in hundreds.

And even for the past 5 years I'm sure I'll be able to think of a couple dozen.

I'm much more interested in how many games with online authentications are really that much worth it. Ten? Twenty? That's not a lot.