Torment Does Planescape: Torment transcend D&D?

[Lurker47]

I haven't played any D&D at all (my only other exposure is from Baldur's Gate and some videos talking about it) but I really get this feeling. Not to say that D&D is something to transcend because it's stupid or whatever but everything in Planescape: Torment seems so thematically and tonally interconnected that it seems like its own property. As far as I know, everything in the game is directly from D&D though.

Does it "feel" like a campaign? Or does its Gothic reinterpretation (I'm assuming) of a lot of stuff it make into its own kind of world?

 

[fantadomat]

I haven't played any D&D at all (my only other exposure is from Baldur's Gate and some videos talking about it) but I really get this feeling. Not to say that D&D is something to transcend because it's stupid or whatever but everything in Planescape: Torment seems so thematically and tonally interconnected that it seems like its own property. As far as I know, everything in the game is directly from D&D though.

Does it "feel" like a campaign? Or does its Gothic reinterpretation (I'm assuming) of a lot of stuff it make into its own kind of world?

It was made during the best time for D&D lore. In times where a bunch of nerd sat down and played make believe. Later on a bunch of retarded college degree writers hijacked D&D and ended up filling it with political shit and contradicting the old lore because it was problematic or simply were too lazy to read it. The lore in Torment is a lot more interesting than modern day D&D garbage.

 

[Butter]

I mean, it's not really a D&D game at all. You don't have to know anything about D&D to play it.

 

[S.torch]

Pretty much, is one of the most unique settings out there. Not only in RPG, but fantasy in general. Is crazy, but genius at the same time. Which is pretty sad that there are no more games in that setting.

 

[Fairfax]

No, it's very much a Planescape campaign. The impression you got must be due to the unique setting and the many D&D/fantasy tropes that MCA consciously avoided.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Planescape: Torment didn't transcend Dungeons & Dragons, but it does manage to transcend Bioware's execrable Infinity Engine through its unique combination of the existing Planescape campaign setting, created by veteran designer David Zeb Cook in 1994, with the best writing ever found in a CRPG, courtesy of aspiring young writer Chris Avellone.

 

[S.torch]

No, it's very much a Planescape campaign. The impression you got must be due to the unique setting and the many D&D/fantasy tropes that MCA consciously avoided.

OP is obviously making reference to the fact that Planescape: Torment is not ike a "normal" setting, like Baldur's Gate or Forgotten Realms. He is not comparing it with the actual tabletop campaign of Planescape, which already "transcends" other campaigns.

 

[Lurker47]

I haven't played any D&D at all (my only other exposure is from Baldur's Gate and some videos talking about it) but I really get this feeling. Not to say that D&D is something to transcend because it's stupid or whatever but everything in Planescape: Torment seems so thematically and tonally interconnected that it seems like its own property. As far as I know, everything in the game is directly from D&D though.

Does it "feel" like a campaign? Or does its Gothic reinterpretation (I'm assuming) of a lot of stuff it make into its own kind of world?

It was made during the best time for D&D lore. In times where a bunch of nerd sat down and played make believe. Later on a bunch of retarded college degree writers hijacked D&D and ended up filling it with political shit and contradicting the old lore because it was problematic or simply were too lazy to read it. The lore in Torment is a lot more interesting than modern day D&D garbage.

Care to give some examples?

Planescape: Torment didn't transcend Dungeons & Dragons, but it does manage to transcend Bioware's execrable Infinity Engine through its unique combination of the existing Planescape campaign setting, created by veteran designer David Zeb Cook in 1994, with the best writing ever found in a CRPG, courtesy of aspiring young writer Chris Avellone.

No, it's very much a Planescape campaign. The impression you got must be due to the unique setting and the many D&D/fantasy tropes that MCA consciously avoided.

OP is obviously making reference to the fact that Planescape: Torment is not ike a "normal" setting, like Baldur's Gate or Forgotten Realms. He is not comparing it with the actual tabletop campaign of Planescape, which already "transcends" other campaigns.

Hell, I didn't even know that existed until now. I was under the impression Planescape: Torment was more of a "Forgotten Realms" thing, whatever that means. Is it faithful to the original setting?

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Hell, I didn't even know that existed until now. I was under the impression Planescape: Torment was more of a "Forgotten Realms" thing, whatever that means. Is it faithful to the original setting?

David Zeb Cook, the creator of the Planescape campaign setting, was employed by Interplay at the time and was consulted by Chris Avellone. Interplay also employed Colin McComb, who had worked on a few AD&D Planescape products and assisted with the development of Planescape: Torment. The city of Sigil (e.g. the wards and major locations such as the Mortuary and the Foundry), factions (e.g. Dustmen, Godsmen), important symbols (e.g. the Lady of Pain and mazes), planes and planar portals (e.g. Curst on the border of the Outlands), tone and underlying concepts, and aesthetics all originate in the Planescape box set and a few other Planescape campaign setting products.

The Mortuary as depicted in artwork from The Factol's Manifesto, 1995.

 

[Fairfax]

Is it faithful to the original setting?

A few minor things aren't, but overall it's quite faithful, and its significant additions to the lore are respectful (not presented as fact/don't mess with canon,etc.).

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

When I play Planescape I don't feel like it's D&D at all. Planescape is such a great and unique setting that it doesn't feel like Forgotten Realms we're used to - far from it. Planescape is one of the best settings ever and it doesn't feel like a campaign, it feels like its own thing.

I'd love to see more RPGs set in Planescape setting, especially fan mods (there is a remarkable chasm in Planescape user mods, almost none exist. I found a German one with English subtitles but have yet to play it, I believe it's an NWN2 mod. I was shocked to find out there are basically no NWN Planescape modules.)

 

[Silva]

Yes, it does.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Planescape is the next best thing after Glorantha, and PST is a supreme implementation (manifestation, if you like) of Planescape into digital form.

 

[Lithium Flower]

I haven't played any D&D at all (my only other exposure is from Baldur's Gate and some videos talking about it) but I really get this feeling. Not to say that D&D is something to transcend because it's stupid or whatever but everything in Planescape: Torment seems so thematically and tonally interconnected that it seems like its own property. As far as I know, everything in the game is directly from D&D though.

Does it "feel" like a campaign? Or does its Gothic reinterpretation (I'm assuming) of a lot of stuff it make into its own kind of world?

It was made during the best time for D&D lore. In times where a bunch of nerd sat down and played make believe. Later on a bunch of retarded college degree writers hijacked D&D and ended up filling it with political shit and contradicting the old lore because it was problematic or simply were too lazy to read it. The lore in Torment is a lot more interesting than modern day D&D garbage.

Ah yes, Planescape - the apolitical D&D setting.

 

[Neanderthal]

I always liked how there was an undercurrent of decay hinted at in the high heavens, sat in their unassailable fortresses, while their agents dabbled in the politics of the infernal and kept the blood war raging so that they ruled unopposed. You can see why Trial rebelled.

 

[Lurker47]

I'd love to see more RPGs set in Planescape setting, especially fan mods (there is a remarkable chasm in Planescape user mods, almost none exist. I found a German one with English subtitles but have yet to play it, I believe it's an NWN2 mod. I was shocked to find out there are basically no NWN Planescape modules.)

That's the thing though. It feels so tailor-made for this story specifically.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

That's the thing though. It feels so tailor-made for this story specifically.

True. But think of the other stories that can be created with the setting alone. I mean, Sigil is the City of Doors, you can have all kinds of crazy adventures there. By the way, I read the Planescape Trilogy of books, they are very cool reads with fun adventures set in Sigil and the Planescape world. Not amazing writing but solid, definitely worth a peek if you're interested in Planesscape as a setting.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

When I play Planescape I don't feel like it's D&D at all. Planescape is such a great and unique setting that it doesn't feel like Forgotten Realms we're used to - far from it. Planescape is one of the best settings ever and it doesn't feel like a campaign, it feels like its own thing.

I'd love to see more RPGs set in Planescape setting, especially fan mods (there is a remarkable chasm in Planescape user mods, almost none exist. I found a German one with English subtitles but have yet to play it, I believe it's an NWN2 mod. I was shocked to find out there are basically no NWN Planescape modules.)

You identify Dungeons & Dragons with the worst D&D/AD&D campaign setting ever published by TSR?

Go forth and familiarize yourself with Greyhawk, Blackmoor, the Known World / Mystara, Dragonlance, Lankhmar, Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape, and Birthright.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

PS:T doesn't need the player to have fore-knowledge of D&D because it explains itself well. There isn't a single aspect of the setting that isn't explained by an NPC (or multiple). You just have to ask. Aside from a few NPCs, it manages to do with well without feeling like a lore dump. The Planescape setting does have some divergences from your standard Faerun, and is a bit more cerebral. Beyond that, PS:T as a game was deliberately made to subvert standard D&D conventions, which further sets it apart. So, to answer you question. Yes.

 

[Ismaul]

When people think of D&D they think of Forgotten Realms. A great loss because FR is the worst and blandest D&D has to offer, made to appeal to the masses.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Yes.
Every D&D ruleset ever devised is utter trash. PS:T barely tries to adhere to D&D rulesets, and instead devotes its attention to C&C. Therefore, PS:T avoids the pitfalls of D&D, and transcends other IE games because of its other strengths.
Being a full-on C&C game doesn't always work, but it worked here. Case closed.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

You identify Dungeons & Dragons with the worst D&D/AD&D campaign setting ever published by TSR?

Go forth and familiarize yourself with Greyhawk, Blackmoor, the Known World / Mystara, Dragonlance, Lankhmar, Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape, and Birthright.

I said Planescape DOESN'T feel like D&D. What games are good that explore these other settings?

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I said Planescape DOESN'T feel like D&D. What games are good that explore these other settings?

The Dragonlance setting received a trilogy of Gold Box games (Champions / Death Knights / Dark Queen of Krynn) which are now available from GOG.

Also, there's Dark Sun: Shattered Lands / Wake of the Ravager, Ravenloft Strahd's Possession / Stone Prophet, and even Birthright: Gorgon's Alliance has some fans. The Known World / Mystara setting never had any computer RPGs, but there were two console RPGs (Order of the Griffon and Warriors of the Eternal Sun). Planescape, of course, had Planescape: Torment, and Greyhawk finally received a CRPG with an adaptation of the classic adventure module Temple of Elemental Evil in 2003.

However, the best way to learn about these settings is to read the original source material published by TSR for AD&D/D&D.

 

[Luckmann]

make into its own kind of world?

It takes place in Planescape. A setting.

D&D is a system, and while that system often comes with some assumptions as to themes and setting (a faux-medieval milieu), there are many settings, such as Planescape, Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Dark Sun, and they're very different from each other.

I said Planescape DOESN'T feel like D&D.

It absolutely does, though, insofar any single setting can "feel" "like D&D". How it plays out is entirely up to the table, there's nothing inherent in the setting that makes it more or less than D&D.

That's the thing though. It feels so tailor-made for this story specifically.

Other way around. Planescape: Torment was tailor-made for the Planescape setting. The setting material inspired the game, it's really not that weird, just like how you'd tell an epic of divine meddling in Forgotten Realms.

Ah yes, Planescape - the apolitical D&D setting.

Yes, very much so. A setting having internally consistent politics in relation to its own material does not make the setting in itself political, even if the exploration of those theoretical politics within that universe would be a major focus, you utter poncetard.

What is it with retards and not being able to separate between reality and fiction?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

A setting having internally consistent politics in relation to its own material does not make the setting in itself political, even if the exploration of those theoretical politics within that universe would be a major focus, you utter poncetard.

Yes it does.

What is it with retards and not being able to separate between reality and fiction?

Good fiction has a relation to reality. Good fiction is truthful on some level.


I think you are all too focused on D&D as a setting when the core of the thing are mechanics.