Dragon age 2- Combat Walkthrough

[Kaanyrvhok]

It seems to me that Bioware's fans are a bunch of emo faggots. That's why they react towards Bioware and their awshum stories and characters with emotions primarily. This is what makes them fanatical and with lack of any criticism. Yes, of course it's completely pathetic and funny. Beth's fans are catatonic little LARPers who tend to be genuinely retarded intelligence-wise. But I'm not interested in either of those groups really. I think Beth makes far more retarded games with far worse gameplay. Hell, Beth's games have no gameplay. With DA once i look aside from the generic story and idiotic characters, there's at least something that hints at interesting possibilities there. Beth, no such thing, just an empty generic world with piles over piles of nothing. Oblivion is a black hole which just sucks time, energy and will to live when one starts it. It's more popular to hate DA nowadays because it came much later and it's fresher in memory, but it doesn't get worse than Oblivion. TBH, i think DA hints at good things in many ways but actually doesn't achieve any. Oblivion took as many steps as it could further away from anything potentially good in an RPG.

Oblivion was a much better game than DA. After about 10 hours there is nothing to do in DA but the same shit. In Oblivion you can always make potions, make spells, break into peoples houses, zap clothes off of folks. Its sand box components alone give it an edge. I might be a simple individual for having fun with simple shit like that but it beats brainless waves of the same filler combat spiced with shit romances any day.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

@ markec - that's very good news indeed then. I left TESF for good and haven't looked back since about the time you mention as being: any criticism of Oblivion = troll or Oblivion = the bestest RPG evah! That was the exact status of those forums then. I'm glad if it's better now.

It certainly was like that for a time, but I think FO3 and FO:NV having a lot better gameplay is the reason that they are much more open now. Before most of them had only played Oblivion, having no other comparison yet feeling the need to give an opinion to feel good about themselves.

Yes, i know DA's fans are like that - Bioware's fans that is, since this is symptomatic for their games, but IMO DA was a much much MUCH better game and RPG than Oblivion with all 1000+ mods. Yes, i know DA is a lousy RPG as such, but at quite a few moments it made me think "now, this could have been great, only if they made this and this and haven't chickened out of that". Oblivion on the other hand, with all the mods in the world is still atrocious in every single fucking category and nowhere near me seeing any potential in it. For example, all the time whileI was playing that elf part in DA with that white wolf and nature and everything, and then that quest where some kid is in the Fade...I've already forgot all the details, but those two in particular felt like being VERY close to some very nicely designed and real C&Cs. Oblivion on the other hand is completely fucking catatonic in every way. I haven't played FO3 nor do i intend to, but I've followed the LP here on codex done very well by our comrade whose nickname i can not recall now and i sincerely think that all the incest alien lesbian weaboo morrigan secks a bioware fan can imagine is nowhere near as atrocious as FO3's writing, which isn't merely pathetic and targeted towards little pimply boys who dream about ladies with big boobies - it's just genuinely retarded. Todd retarded.

I'll give you that Oblivion is worse then DA:O in the writing department. The problem is that DA is simply not a fun game otherwise. If 30 hours of trash combat were cut so that a half-assed story and gameworld could shine through then DA would be more fun. But as it is DA is hardly any different from the newest Final Fantasy, being a limitless corridor of enemies to fight through to reach the next plot point that leaves you wondering why you wasted your time getting there. Oblivion and FO3, at least, have an open world, reward exploration, quests have multiple (actually different) ways to be solved, and the player is free to do what they like rather then being put through Bioware's latest idea of what a video game movie should be. While Oblivion was still weak enough in the gameplay area to be utter garbage by most accounts, FO3 fixed enough that, if you can steel yourself against the horrible dialog and plot, an actually half-decent game lies underneath.

 

[JarlFrank]

Oblivion was ruined by tons of shit decisions. Fallout 3 fixed many of them, first and foremost the atrocious level scaling and lack of unique items. Yeah, the writing was horribly retarded but at least the game was mostly fun and combat was quick enough to not be an annoyance.

Dragon Age, however, was ruined by horrendous amounts of filler combat that just seem like work instead of fun and prevent me from replaying it ever again because I just got sick of fighting trash mobs every 5 seconds.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

TESF lvl scaling poll

Biowarians would never go against the grain like that. 384 to 16.

 

[piydek]

Oblivion was a much better game than DA. After about 10 hours there is nothing to do in DA but the same shit. In Oblivion you can always make potions, make spells, break into peoples houses, zap clothes off of folks. Its sand box components alone give it an edge. I might be a simple individual for having fun with simple shit like that but it beats brainless waves of the same filler combat spiced with shit romances any day.

Yes, you can LARP and do stupid shit like that endlessly in Oblivion. But those things don't make a game. You're playing in your head, you don't play an actual game.

The problem is that DA is simply not a fun game otherwise. If 30 hours of trash combat were cut so that a half-assed story and gameworld could shine through then DA would be more fun. But as it is DA is hardly any different from the newest Final Fantasy, being a limitless corridor of enemies to fight through to reach the next plot point that leaves you wondering why you wasted your time getting there. Oblivion and FO3, at least, have an open world, reward exploration, quests have multiple (actually different) ways to be solved, and the player is free to do what they like rather then being put through Bioware's latest idea of what a video game movie should be. While Oblivion was still weak enough in the gameplay area to be utter garbage by most accounts, FO3 fixed enough that, if you can steel yourself against the horrible dialog and plot, an actually half-decent game lies underneath.

I agree with almost everything you've said - except that FO3 is any good, i haven't played it but from the LP here on codex it seemed utterly, utterly retarded. I can't play that stupid shit. I will play NV though, but that's a completely different thing. The reason why i maintain that DA is superior to Oblivion (vastly) is because i can see potential in DA. In it's system, approach, gameplay. If bioware weren't such emo fags and had some balls, i think it could have been good. While in what bethesda is doing with Oblivion and later - i think that's just a shit concept. I see absolutely no potential in that. I feel Bethesda is going to make empty pseudo-sandboxes forever. With what DA did - there was at least a possibility of story, C&Cs, dialogues, semi-good combat etc.

 

[piydek]

TESF lvl scaling poll

Biowarians would never go against the grain like that. 384 to 16.

Respect to the TES mass for the poll result. Incline indeed. But then again - the scaling in Oblivion was such a massive fuck-up only a true retard wouldn't see how pointless it makes the game. I'm also sure those little fucks wouldn't have seen by themselves how shit the scaling was if it wasn't for a certain mod called Oscuro's oblivion overhaul, which showed them first-hand how it should be done.

Also, not defending little bioware's whores, but you can't really know they wouldn't go against the grain in such a way. The thing is, bioware didn't fuck up anything nearly as badly. And I'm sure they'll never fuck up nearly as badly. Yes, they're willing to lick the lowest common denominator's balls and willing to make shit games for money, but they're not retarded. They know what they're doing and why they're doing it. Bethesda seems genuinely retarded.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

I agree with almost everything you've said - except that FO3 is any good, i haven't played it but from the LP here on codex it seemed utterly, utterly retarded.

If you are only reading about DA and FO3, sure. What you are reading is dialog and plot summaries. As I said, that is DA's (lol) strength, while it is FO3's main failure. If you played both, you would realize that they are both 95% combat games where killing things under the pretense of needing to finish 'quests' is the main objective. And FO3 simply does that much better then DA, giving you more choices on what to do, more unique enemies to fight, more varied quests (as if DA had any real variety in the first place beyond go here kill this ), more varied solutions to each quest, and more exploration. If you think that an RPG should be nothing more then a sequence of cutscenes punctuated by hours of tedious filler combat, choose DA. If you think that some sort of player interactivity, exploration, and choice are what an RPG should contain then FO3 is vastly superior.

 

[piydek]

Manatee - i played DA (didn't finish it) and Oblivion (didn't finish it either) and haven't played FO3. In DA there were a lot of times when i felt that the game's intended design had the pattern:

choice - reaction - differentiated consequences

The thing is, i only felt like it - there's no real C&Cs in DA. But it'd take a moron not to see how easily there could have been very real differentiated consequences. Lots of quests have almost had it spelled out completely and then at the end they've all just chickened out and taken any real differentiated consequences away, putting in only one consequence, tying it to their "tight story". Which is utter shit decision. But on many occasions it was so freaking close - i'm even tending to believe that quest designers even intended what was in my head as possibilities for the quest solutions while i was playing but that they were just warned to take away any real consequences in the end, so that the game could tell it's awshum tale. Or maybe there just wasn't interest or was labeled as not important for the target audience to write a branching story. But it was all there, so close, so many times during the game.

I agree about the filler combat, grinding, lack of challenge, no need for tactics, generic story and characters and everything, but i think you see what i mean when i say i think their system has had possibilities.

Beth's games since oblivion on the other hand give shit exploration in badly designed worlds, false freedom (freedom to wander around and play in your head), no real C&Cs, minimal but absolute shit of a story, dialogue etc. Beth's games manage feeling like a huge contradiction - like nothingness itself and at the same time being something that was utterly badly written/designed. I have no clue how they manage to do it.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Beth's games manage feeling like a huge contradiction - like nothingness itself and at the same time being something that was utterly badly written/designed. I have no clue how they manage to do it.

Change Elder Scrolls to LARP Adventures and you'll understand completely.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

As far as I'm concerned merely setting up dialog to suggest that there could be different consequences is merely 1/10th of the battle. The other 9/10ths is actually making the consequences real and meaningful. I don't consider what Bioware does 'close' at all. Its misleading, its promising without delivering, its complete bullshit. Its all about Bioware cheaping out and only spending that 1/10th of the effort because they know 95% of players and 100% of reviewers will eat pretend consequences up and proclaim Bioware the masters of the RPG genre. In my book that is far worse a far worse transgression than anything Bethesda has done.

As we have seen with F:NV, taking the gameplay Bethesda made for FO3 and simply giving it good writing, a plot, and well thought out areas is enough to make a very decent game. The core fundamentals of the game play design at Bethesda are not at fault, they simply need to replace every writer they hired since Morrowind.

 

[trym88]

I am still waiting for racofer and his magic picture editing skills...

 

[SCO]

You are agonizing over things that don't matter. Just don't play their shit games.

 

[racofer]

 

[piydek]

As far as I'm concerned merely setting up dialog to suggest that there could be different consequences is merely 1/10th of the battle. The other 9/10ths is actually making the consequences real and meaningful. I don't consider what Bioware does 'close' at all. Its misleading, its promising without delivering, its complete bullshit. Its all about Bioware cheaping out and only spending that 1/10th of the effort because they know 95% of players and 100% of reviewers will eat pretend consequences up and proclaim Bioware the masters of the RPG genre.

I think it's way more than 1/10th, the way it was done in DA....many times it was good all the way up until the point of final resolution. I think that the main thing why they didn't do it is because of their fixation on telling their gay little stories and stuff like branching and actual consequences/player's actions mattering interfere with their awesome writing skillz and their fanbase falling in love with what they write for their characters and stories in whose context they put that. It's a necessary design decision - one can't have both. They made the shit decision and it all falls back to their wanting to make movies instead of games. Is it because of their true "vision" or because of their knowing this sells, I don't know.

 

[SolipsisticUrge]

Just going to chime in again to say piydek is right on the DA vs. ES3 bit. Dragon Age felt like something with potential; a horribly flawed imitation of a worthwhile past, if you will. Oblivion felt much like what I imagine being dissolved slowly in acid while being forced to watch my loved ones be raped by a high-on-meth Barney the dinosaur would be like.

 

[Twinkle]

The core fundamentals of the game play design at Bethesda are not at fault, they simply need to replace every writer they hired since Morrowind.

Quest compass, copy-paste location design, minigames, shit shooting, shit melee, glorified aim assist called VATS, atrocious combat AI, lack of balanced difficulty, engine that can't handle multiple NPCs properly, limited dialogue options (lol can't read dem small fonts on my Xbawks) aren't totally writers' fault.

That's where New Vegas fell short for me - despite the inclined quest design and better writing, it looked and played like Oblivion with guns.

 

[CrimHead]

Guys guys guys

You're completely missing the point

The real question here is

BUT WILL IT HAVE RENEGADE/PARAGON QTEs

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Yes, you can LARP and do stupid shit like that endlessly in Oblivion. But those things don't make a game. You're playing in your head, you don't play an actual game.

It depends on how you define LARP. Codexers tend to tie it to any action game. I place two LARP tags. One for a game that feels like a sitcom which was Oblivion, the other for a game that forces you to come up with fanciful explanations for why you cant do something or are doing something you would like to do. Storm of Zehir is an example of such a game. Why is my evil Durgar Warlock a merchant? LARP explanation: She is a greedy capitalist bitch. So I roleplayed her as Ann Coulter. In DA the question was why cant my rogue break into homes? LARP explanation: Nil. DA isn’t even good enough for LARP explanations.

Oblivion was more of the sitcom style. My PC had stunted magika so I needed to keep good with gods thus I couldn’t join the Brotherhood, I was creative enough to create a water-walk other spell to cast on my horse so I saved time walking a horse on water, I spied a horse that fell off a bridge and killed the Captain of a citie's guards then looted the keys to the castle and robed it later. Oblivion’s LARPing was in game, not in your head. It was stuff that you did because you didn’t have to fantasize much. You could do a lot of shit. I was expecting a fantasy version of GTA and got much more which is was good because I don’t like GTA much.

I will agree DA did have more potential. It could have been Baldur’s Gate with C&C. It really could have raised the bar more than any of Beth’s games. So I’m more critical… it draws more ire. It’s a bigger failure.

 

[Pika-Cthulhu]

My rudimentary and (ever so very) flawed understanding of the state of today is.

Beth makes LARP sims

Bioware makes Romance Novels

Is that about it?

 

[Vibalist]

I booted up Oblivion again yesterday and I find it a decent enough experience. Nothing mind blowing, but with OOO at least exploration and leveling is worth something, which is two of the most important factors in an RPG. Those who think Bethsoft are shite have a point, but without the atrocious level scaling that is thankfully being criticised by everyone, I think their games are fun timesinks that you can always enjoy if you put aside your antagonism towards Beth and shut off your brain a bit.

Same can't be said for Bioware games, as they are simply incredibly boring. Their stories might provide me with entertainment in the same way a cheap b-movie would (which is not at all a bad thing if you're just in the mood for some cheese), but the gameplay is always fucking shit. If Bioware fixed gameplay and actually gave me a good combat system, good encounter design and whatever else is needed to make gameplay and combat enjoyable, I'd have no beef with them. Sure, their writing and storytelling is sub par, but it can be enjoyed for what it is. So Bioware's main failure, for me, is not the fact they like to write shitty gay romances and high fantasy cliché filled drivel, it's the fact they seem to be focusing almost solely on this and forget games should first and foremost be fun to PLAY.
I still can't understand why they haven't switched to Heavy Rain type of games by now. They simply don't give two shits about anything else than story, and neither do their fans. This is perfectly exemplified by taking a look at Bioware's forums where you have to search far and wide for threads that are actually about gameplay, and by that developer chick from Bio who admitted she would sometimes just put the difficulty level on easy in order to quickly skip past the combat her own development team designed in order to get on with the story.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

^^
If I wasn't such a scatter brain, and a dummy I might have stated it as well as you did. Thats exactly how I feel.

 

[GarfunkeL]

WTF guys? DA is shit. Oblivion is shit. F3 is shit. End of story. You are discussing whether fermented shit is better than merely rancid shit or the other way around. Only saving grace in F3 were skill-checks in fucking dialogues and even that was handled in a retarded way.

 

[Volourn]

"The thing is, i only felt like it - there's no real C&Cs in DA."

Bullshit. Did you play the game? It has C&C up the wazoo.

 

[Jaesun]

Bullshit

 

[GarfunkeL]

R00fles!