Gordon Freeman voted best vg hero ever on Gamespot

[Phelot]

Which reminds me: why does everyone love Half-Life 2 so much? I played through it, start to finish, and I really don't get what was so special about it. I mostly remember shitty pacing, shitty physics puzzles, shitty driving sections, and shitty weapons. Oh, and a story that started off really promising, and then went nowhere. At all. Except for the end, when... um... actually, I don't remember the ending. So as far as I recall, the story went nowhere.

I tried Half-Life 1 too. I had trouble playing it, because my character was zipping around like I had a speedhack or something and made it really hard to aim and maneuver. The main difference I noticed was that the pacing was a little better, there were no physics or vehicles, the weapons were average, and the story was fucking stupid right from the get-go.

I hope you're not trolling because I've spent the past 12 years trying and failing to figure out what the fuck was so good about Half-Life.

It was, as the saying goes, good for what it is. At the time I thought it was mediocre to good.

 

[Destroid]

I didn't finish the singleplayer in either HL1 or 2, both had pretty bad multiplayer (2 was worse) but both have some pretty great mods. If not for the mods, I would never have purchased HL2.

 

[hanssolo]

This is much better then Doom

seems like a pretty cool guy.

ohhh wait.

 

[Phelot]

This is much better then Doom

seems like a pretty cool guy.

ohhh wait.

Oh wait nothing. This was before Halo and other shit. That pic was made in like 1980 by Craig Mullins on his stolen Apple computers tech using the first version of Photoshop back when it was a secret NSA project to create realistic war machine designs.

Marathon was and still is a Doom killer.

 

[hanssolo]

Oh wait nothing. This was before Halo and other shit. That pic was made in like 1980 by Craig Mullins on his stolen Apple computers tech using the first version of Photoshop back when it was a secret NSA project to create realistic war machine designs.

Marathon was and still is a Doom killer.

bungie's been in decline since

(I kid, marathon was cool, but 'space marine' obviously pulled mullins imagination rather thin.)

 

[Sceptic]

That pic was made in like 1980

In 1994 actually.

But yeah Marathon is awesome.

bungie's been in decline since

Isn't that from Pathways Into Darkness? That was the year before Marathon and a fantastic FPS. Too bad Bungie were so focused on doing things exclusively for the Mac.

But yeah, being bought by Macroshaft may have made Bungie a lot of money but their games since have sucked ass.

 

[racofer]

This is much better then Doom

I agree. Doom wins.

 

[hanssolo]

Isn't that from Pathways Into Darkness? That was the year before Marathon and a fantastic FPS. Too bad Bungie were so focused on doing things exclusively for the Mac.

there was work on a port using aleph one, but there hasn't been an update since the beta was released in 2007.

http://bighouse.bungie.org/pathways/index.php

 

[Phelot]

Isn't that from Pathways Into Darkness? That was the year before Marathon and a fantastic FPS. Too bad Bungie were so focused on doing things exclusively for the Mac.

But yeah, being bought by Macroshaft may have made Bungie a lot of money but their games since have sucked ass.

Yeah. I'll pay big money for someone to figure out a way to do an LP of it. That game was REALLY good for the time, again blowing away Wolfenstien even if it was a year or so late.

1994 for that pic? Amazing. Mullins made a fanpic for Marathon which is how he developed his relationship with Bungie.

I'd say that Bungie took a major dip in awesomeness when Kirkpatrick and a few others left Bungie and released Marathon Infinity with their new company. Though Bungie was still awesome, having made the Myth series, they declined fucking hard with Halo and the other founder had left and now makes fucking Flash games or some bullshit. WTF?!

I agree. Doom wins.

Negative.

EDIT: Wasn't that gif a fan made thing? I don't recall there being anything after the game ends other then one of the ending dialogues, though it's been forever since I last beat it.

 

[madbringer]

Good games, but come on, Doom killer? The Marathon series wish they would be half as good as Doom. Marathon is behind in every important aspect - pacing, overall aesthetics and integrity, balance, map architecture. It's also easy as balls in comparison (well, to Doom 2, anyway). Only thing Marathon did better was tell a story. But that's hardly the most important aspect of a good shooter, now is it?

I play vanilla Doom 1 and 2 and with custom WADs via Skulltag and Zdoom, and always enjoy myself immensely. It just works as a whole. I beat Marathon once and never came back.

 

[Phelot]

Good games, but come on, Doom killer? The Marathon series wish they would be half as good as Doom. Marathon is behind in every important aspect - pacing, overall aesthetics and integrity, balance, map architecture. It's also easy as balls in comparison (well, to Doom 2, anyway). Only thing Marathon did better was tell a story. But that's hardly the most important aspect of a good shooter, now is it?

I play vanilla Doom 1 and 2 and with custom WADs via Skulltag and Zdoom, and always enjoy myself immensely. It just works as a whole. I beat Marathon once and never came back.

Marathon had better multiplayer, better monster design, hell even better textures then the nonsensical bullshit on the walls of Doom. And level design? All Doom levels consist of wide open space followed by a few smaller spaces. A pillar here or there. At least Marathon tried to portray it's setting in a realistic manner.

What was unbalanced about Marathon?

You have declared war my friend.

EDIT: The only thing nice about Doom is that you can pick it up and play for a few minutes and then stop, but for that I just play Hexen anyway

 

[madbringer]

Better monsters? They look comical and non-threatening. Despite the often claustrophobic design of the levels, i never once got startled, manly because i could hardly contain laughter at the sight of some dudes with magic staves rushing at me. Doom, on the other hand, has a variety of nasty looking motherfuckers. May not seem like that now, but 16 years ago, they scared the living shit out of me.

Dunno about graphics and textures, that's a matter of taste, mostly, but the aesthetics of Doom always appealed to me much more.

Not map design but architecture - while Marathon focuses on allowing it's players a degree of non-linearity to progress (which is admirable), it lags behind in the tricks and traps department. Vanilla Doom maps are simplistic, but they are also clever and are challenging, making the player stay on his toes at all times.

By balance, i meant, of course, the weapons. They are overpowered and only add to the lack of challenge that Marathon presents.

As for multiplayer, nothing i can say, never played Marathon in mp mode. Co-op and DM Doom is always a blast, though, especially now, with all the awesome ports around, like SkullTag.

 

[Sceptic]

there was work on a port using aleph one

FINALLY! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

but there hasn't been an update since the beta was released in 2007.

Had a look at the site and the beta doesn't let you play the full game. Shame. Looks like I will need to find a good Mac emulator (if a good one even exists)

That game was REALLY good for the time, again blowing away Wolfenstien even if it was a year or so late.

I think it came out around the same time as Doom, and comparing it to Wolf 3D it completely blows it out of the water. PiD had an actual story for starters, and a pretty good one. The survival elements were pretty strong: this is not a game where you charge down guns blazing. I mean you could, but then you run out of ammo with seconds and die another few seconds later. I never got too far in the game (not having a Mac at home) but friends who did told me there were some very cool puzzles in the latter half of the game. The only PC FPS I can think of that tried as hard as PiD to do things differently at the time was Strife, and that says it all. Oh yeah, and bonus points for "borrowing" some plot elements from a couple of Herbert novels.

Though Bungie was still awesome, having made the Myth series, they declined fucking hard with Halo and the other founder had left and now makes fucking Flash games or some bullshit. WTF?!

Halo is such a fucking piece of shit game. Any decent elements were lifted straight out of Marathon and shit was added to everything to make a full game. I still rage a little inside every time I think about it.

In any case Marathon and Doom and PiD > Halo

 

[Phelot]

Better monsters? They look comical and non-threatening. Despite the often claustrophobic design of the levels, i never once got startled, manly because i could hardly contain laughter at the sight of some dudes with magic staves rushing at me. Doom, on the other hand, has a variety of nasty looking motherfuckers. May not seem like that now, but 16 years ago, they scared the living shit out of me.

A matter of taste I suppose. The Marathon aliens were designed by a medical student who used his knowledge of anatomy in his designs. The result is truly alien looking... aliens that are also believable. And compilers aren't scarY?! The first time I rounded a corner and saw one of those things on a terminal, I didn't know what the fuck to do. It didn't respond to anything until I bumped it and it turned around and flashed me. Holy fuck.

Doom monsters are just plain dumb. Like you fight against retarded kids with sharp teeth. idk, I guess the zombies soldiers and those pink demons can be fucking scary, but all the bosses were lame, even back then.

Don't get me wrong, I had fun with Doom and it still manages to be better then most modern FPS but Marathon takes the cake.

Not map design but architecture - while Marathon focuses on allowing it's players a degree of non-linearity to progress (which is admirable), it lags behind in the tricks and traps department. Vanilla Doom maps are simplistic, but they are also clever and are challenging, making the player stay on his toes at all times.

Eh. I guess. Doom relies on traps and hidden doors filled with baddies, while Marathon relied on the claustrophobic corridors and sheer darkness. I suppose that's what I liked about it.

By balance, i meant, of course, the weapons. They are overpowered and only add to the lack of challenge that Marathon presents.

Doom doesn't have overpowered weapons?!

As for multiplayer, nothing i can say, never played Marathon in mp mode. Co-op and DM Doom is always a blast, though, especially now, with all the awesome ports around, like SkullTag.

You should try playing Marathon 2 multiplayer, it really is a blast even after all these years. A lot of fun type games like kill the guy with the ball and king of the hill.

There was a site that you could register on and play it for free online rather then trying to find the three people in the world willing to play LAN

 

[Phelot]

I think it came out around the same time as Doom, and comparing it to Wolf 3D it completely blows it out of the water. PiD had an actual story for starters, and a pretty good one. The survival elements were pretty strong: this is not a game where you charge down guns blazing. I mean you could, but then you run out of ammo with seconds and die another few seconds later. I never got too far in the game (not having a Mac at home) but friends who did told me there were some very cool puzzles in the latter half of the game. The only PC FPS I can think of that tried as hard as PiD to do things differently at the time was Strife, and that says it all. Oh yeah, and bonus points for "borrowing" some plot elements from a couple of Herbert novels.

Wolf3D was released in 92 and PiD in 93.

Really the most awesome part of the game was talking to the dead Nazis, Cubans, and of course your US buddies. I remember one of the bosses were you find the bodies of 3 of your guys all telling you to GTFO before you face what killed them. It was so scary. Of course the monster designs are kinda goofy, but still.

The game had about 6 different endings as far as I recall. All down to whether you armed the bomb, had enough time to escape, etc. Really cool for the time.

Yeah, Strife is a great game. I remember playing it and not really knowing what I was getting into.

In any case Marathon and Doom and PiD > Halo

I can endorse this statement.

Man, I wish Bungie had tried their hand at an RPG. I bet it would have been awesome. Even if it was just based on the GURPS Myth book.

 

[hanssolo]

Had a look at the site and the beta doesn't let you play the full game. Shame. Looks like I will need to find a good Mac emulator (if a good one even exists)

from what I've read, the beta goes up to 'Need A Light?', and the marathon hud is pretty depressing, but it should run in Basilisk II fine. (I'm trying to set it up right this moment)

 

[Phelot]

Jason Jones, one of the founders of Bungie said this after the release of PiD:

There's a lot of reasons for that, one of them being that I tend to dislike sequels," he said, continuing that most sequels were tiring and repetitious iterations of the same game.

from what I've read, the beta goes up to 'Need A Light?', and the marathon hud is pretty depressing, but it should run in Basilisk II fine. (I'm trying to set it up right this moment)

I remember that project. I was turned off by the Marathon Hud. I want my claustrophobic windows dammit! Speaking of, how do they handle inventory? Like all the gems and putting items inside containers?

 

[madbringer]

A matter of taste I suppose. The Marathon aliens were designed by a medical student who used his knowledge of anatomy in his designs. The result is truly alien looking... aliens that are also believable. And compilers aren't scarY?! The first time I rounded a corner and saw one of those things on a terminal, I didn't know what the fuck to do. It didn't respond to anything until I bumped it and it turned around and flashed me. Holy fuck.

I'm not looking for 'believable' in my sf shooters, i am looking for gritty, nasty, with claws and blood and shit all over the place. System Shock monsters were much more scary, even though the basic zombies looked like those hunchbacked bums from Fallout.

Doom monsters are just plain dumb. Like you fight against retarded kids with sharp teeth. idk, I guess the zombies soldiers and those pink demons can be fucking scary, but all the bosses were lame, even back then.

Yes, they are dumb, and the bosses are lame (the ending of the first episode in Doom 1 was particularly disappointing), BUT, here is exactly why (especially in Final Doom and Doom 2) i love the way Doom maps are constructed. They take monsters with very basic AI and attack routines and use them in ways that make you want to scream at the top of your lungs both out of brief flashes of fear and frustration due to dying (yet again).

Don't remember any sophistication coming from Marathon monsters, either, although they do have all the limited space going for them, i guess.

Eh. I guess. Doom relies on traps and hidden doors filled with baddies, while Marathon relied on the claustrophobic corridors and sheer darkness. I suppose that's what I liked about it.

Yup. Don't get me wrong, Marathon does what it does very well, it's just not appealing to the adrenaline junkie in me.

Doom doesn't have overpowered weapons?!

Aye, but, except in Doom 1, they do not hinder the gameplay by making the game easy.

Bear in mind that i always play Doom with fast monsters and on Ultraviolence. Beating WADs that were designed to turn their players into enraged piles of refuse (like Hell Revealed) on those settings kinda recalibrates one's perception of difficulty.

You should try playing Marathon 2 multiplayer, it really is a blast even after all these years. A lot of fun type games like kill the guy with the ball and king of the hill.

Might try it, thanks for the tip.

Overall, i'd say those games are just too different to successfully compare. They're both shooters, but accomplish the task of entertaining their players in very different ways. I'll retract my somewhat ridiculing tone of the previous post, though, i get easily agitated when i see Doom under threat. And the Marathon games are good enough not to deserve being brought down, even if i don't enjoy them as much as i do Doom.

 

[Phelot]

Overall, i'd say those games are just too different to successfully compare. They're both shooters, but accomplish the task of entertaining their players in very different ways. I'll retract my somewhat ridiculing tone of the previous post, though, i get easily agitated when i see Doom under threat. And the Marathon games are good enough not to deserve being brought down, even if i don't enjoy them as much as i do Doom.

Fair enough. For the first time in the history of the internet, two people have agreed at the end of an argument!

I, too must retract certain statements made against Doom.

Really, the only comparison between the two is that one was for Mac and one was for PC and they were released pretty close to each other.

I still remember the heated debates between PC and Mac about which was better and it was always "But Macs have Marathon" versus "But PC has Doom"

 

[hanssolo]

I can't find a fucking download of PiD anywhere, and UG is down, does anyone know any decent mac rpgs? I don't want the time it took to set up basilisk (what a fucking kick in the balls) to be wasted.