Guns in Hexen

[Forest Dweller]

Because Heretic weapons were mostly BSB Doom weapon rip-offs that mostly felt out of place in a fantasy game and Heretic itself a somewhat lukewarm Doom TC.

Heretic is better than Doom. Yeah most of the weapons might have been copies, but so what? Doom got it right. Although there were some interesting new ones, like that one bouncer weapon (from Ratchet and Clank universe ) and no lol-pwnage BFG. Not to mention the Tome of Power which in essence created all new weapons. That was awesome. And in Heretic I was pretty much constantly switching weapons, whereas in Doom (both Dooms) I mostly stuck to the shotgun. Though that may have more to do with the fact that I played on the third difficulty in Doom and the fourth difficulty in Heretic.

Heretic also added the inventory, which was cool even if you couldn't carry over all your items. Also more interesting level design, and new mechanics like running water and ice, for instance. The enemies were more varied as well, and had some interesting attacks. Like that one skull who did all those elemental attacks. I shat bricks the first time I encountered him. Doom didn't have anything like that.

And who cares if the weapons didn't fit in a fantasy setting? Are we talking about realism here?

It's not this kind of game.

So what kind of game is Hexen? Because the main focus is still fps, although with stronger action-adventure elements than Heretic or Doom. The hub thing is cool, but at the moment I'd have to put the game below Heretic, because in this game the enemies are just obstacles in the path of progressing through the hubs, whereas in Heretic both parts were equally fun.

If you wanted to stay out of melee at all costs you should have picked the mage.

Point taken. I'll remember that for the expansion.

 

[DraQ]

Because Heretic weapons were mostly BSB Doom weapon rip-offs that mostly felt out of place in a fantasy game and Heretic itself a somewhat lukewarm Doom TC.

Heretic is better than Doom.

Nope. Lacks atmosphere.

Yeah most of the weapons might have been copies, but so what? Doom got it right.

Copies of modern/sci-fi weapons may not exactly fit in a fantasy game and even if Doom got something right, its not excuse for getting lazy and mindlessly copying it forever and ever which is what happened in the FPS genre.

Although there were some interesting new ones, like that one bouncer weapon (from Ratchet and Clank universe )

Weapon should not look this harmless. A mace should also not attempt to emulate some retarded chaingun shooting grenades.


quote]and no lol-pwnage BFG. [/quote]Indeed, no BFG or its equivalent at all.

Not to mention the Tome of Power which in essence created all new weapons. That was awesome.

Leaving it out was indeed a bad decision, good that they brought it back in Hexen II.

Still, 4th weapons in Hexen II are in essence tomed at their core .

And in Heretic I was pretty much constantly switching weapons, whereas in Doom (both Dooms) I mostly stuck to the shotgun.

Really? I was just running with ethereal crossbow in Heretic as much as I was running with shotgun in Doom.
Anyway, since you're so adept at switching weapons you should find yourself feeling at home in Hexen and not running out of any mana under any circumstances.

Heretic also added the inventory, which was cool even if you couldn't carry over all your items.

In Hexen they do carry over which enhances the element of resource management. Also, you get discs of repulsion, icons of the defender and flechettes - they almost make up for ToP (and in Hexen II both the discs, the icon and ToP are present, along with glyph replacing the flechette and oh, god it's heavan).

Also more interesting level design, and new mechanics like running water and ice, for instance.

Present in Hexen.

The enemies were more varied as well, and had some interesting attacks.

Actually untrue.

Like that one skull nigger who did all those elemental attacks. I shat bricks the first time I encountered him.

In before Heresiarch.

And who cares if the weapons didn't fit in a fantasy setting? Are we talking about realism here?

No, we are talking the atmosphere and consistency. Chaingun and plasmagun, for example, may be conductive to loosely Sci-Fi themed pseudo-horror game where you run around a martian base shooting cyborgized demons, but chaingun dressed up as dragonclaw or plasmagun masquerading as hellstaff are not particularly conductive to a fantasy themed experience Heretic tries to be.

Hexen weapons feel more like FPS versions of something you could find in a fantasy RPG campaign, they are also more elaborate in term of how they work.

It's not this kind of game.

So what kind of game is Hexen?

One where finding a bigger gun doesn't mean you can forget about your less impressive weapons. Also one where ammo management is important.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

I really should get around to playing Hexen. Heretic was fine, but I played it directly after playing Doom 1 and 2, and it felt like nothing more than a fairly well-done total conversion.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Heretic is better than Doom.

Nope. Lacks atmosphere.

They both have different atmospheres for different settings. I enjoyed Heretic's more.

Yeah most of the weapons might have been copies, but so what? Doom got it right.

Copies of modern/sci-fi weapons may not exactly fit in a fantasy game and even if Doom got something right, its not excuse for getting lazy and mindlessly copying it forever and ever which is what happened in the FPS genre.

Actually it is, if something works really well. Certainly not a reason for saying it is "inferior" to the original. But aside from that, the ToP, as I've already said, creates all new weapons anyway, so your point doesn't stand regardless.

Although there were some interesting new ones, like that one bouncer weapon (from Ratchet and Clank universe )

Weapon should not look this harmless. A mace should also not attempt to emulate some retarded chaingun shooting grenades.

Are you actually going to bitch about the way a weapon looks?

And in Heretic I was pretty much constantly switching weapons, whereas in Doom (both Dooms) I mostly stuck to the shotgun.

Really? I was just running with ethereal crossbow in Heretic as much as I was running with shotgun in Doom.

Then maybe it was the difficulty thing. I'm not going to go back and play Doom on Ultraviolence in order to test it.

Anyway, since you're so adept at switching weapons you should find yourself feeling at home in Hexen and not running out of any mana under any circumstances.

It's not an issue of challenge, it's an issue of the mace being very boring as a weapon.

Heretic also added the inventory, which was cool even if you couldn't carry over all your items.

In Hexen they do carry over which enhances the element of resource management. Also, you get discs of repulsion, icons of the defender and flechettes - they almost make up for ToP (and in Hexen II both the discs, the icon and ToP are present, along with glyph replacing the flechette and oh, god it's heavan).

Also more interesting level design, and new mechanics like running water and ice, for instance.

Present in Hexen.

Like that one skull who did all those elemental attacks. I shat bricks the first time I encountered him.

In before Heresiarch.

And I was comparing Heretic to Doom.

The enemies were more varied as well, and had some interesting attacks.

Actually untrue.

Actually it is true.

And who cares if the weapons didn't fit in a fantasy setting? Are we talking about realism here?

No, we are talking the atmosphere and consistency. Chaingun and plasmagun, for example, may be conductive to loosely Sci-Fi themed pseudo-horror game where you run around a martian base shooting cyborgized demons, but chaingun dressed up as dragonclaw or plasmagun masquerading as hellstaff are not particularly conductive to a fantasy themed experience Heretic tries to be.

Hexen weapons feel more like FPS versions of something you could find in a fantasy RPG campaign, they are also more elaborate in term of how they work.

Consistency is just another word for realism. Because if something's not realistic or logical, then the only thing that should matter is whether something creates good gameplay.

It's not this kind of game.

So what kind of game is Hexen?

One where finding a bigger gun doesn't mean you can forget about your less impressive weapons. Also one where ammo management is important.

It was pretty much the same in Heretic. The only gun I found myself not really using once I got the better stuff was the initial one I started with, the "wand" or whatever. Everything else I did use and switched between them all a lot.

 

[Fowyr]

If you played first Doom, you should try it on Ultraviolence, it's very easy game compared to Doom 2 or Thy Flesh Consumed episode.
Second, switching weapons in Doom is crucial and crystal wand is good weapon for gargoyle control.

 

[DraQ]

Heretic is better than Doom.

Nope. Lacks atmosphere.

They both have different atmospheres for different settings.

Except Heretic realizes its atmosphere poorly, as it used Doom's sci-fi weapons resprited for fantasy and Doom's flickering, fluorescent-looking sci-fi lighting where a fantasy equivalent would work better. Oh, and ubiquitous sliding doors.

Hexen does so much better in Fantasy atmosphere department it's not even funny.

I enjoyed Heretic's more.

Not entirely unexpected.

Actually it is, if something works really well.

It isn't if this something is supposed to be the creative part of the game in question. Was "3 is for shotgun" much better than current "FPS is a CoD"?

Even for mechanical parts "really well" may actually not be good enough and cause unnecessary stagnation.

Certainly not a reason for saying it is "inferior" to the original.

It is. Original was original, copycat is copycat.

But aside from that, the ToP, as I've already said, creates all new weapons anyway, so your point doesn't stand regardless.

It does, because ToP is used once in a while so you still have to run with lackluster doom resprites most of the time.

Are you actually going to bitch about the way a weapon looks?

As long as the game doesn't use ASCII graphics, yes. Doubly so if the game belongs to the traditionally graphics-whore genre of FPS.
If you altered Doom sprites and textures to something resembling my little ponies or some other carebears it would still be mechanically the same game and would play exactly the same, but I, along with (I presume) majority of codexers would consider it unplayable. Because of how it would look.

Anyway, since you're so adept at switching weapons you should find yourself feeling at home in Hexen and not running out of any mana under any circumstances.

It's not an issue of challenge, it's an issue of the mace being very boring as a weapon.

Well, you should feel right at home then, since untomed variants of Heretic weapons were boring as fuck, maybe with the exception of Gauntlets which were embodiment of awesomeness regardless of ToP.

The enemies were more varied as well, and had some interesting attacks.

Actually untrue.

Actually it is true.

Actually numbers say otherwise, especially if you count Doom 2 monsters as well, and those could also get interesting (Revenant, Archvile, Pain Elemental). You might have a point regarding bosses, though as they were indeed pretty diverse in Heretic. Normal monsters? Not so much.

Consistency is just another word for realism.

In-universe. It's also another word for not being jarring.
Maybe you'd enjoy my little ponies themed resprite/retexture for doom as much as the vanilla thing. I know I wouldn't.