Torment I just finished Planescape: Torment and...

[hivemind]

hose of us who still believe in dignity, order, decency and civility must stand firm or the entire western culture, born of the chivalric ideals, is lost.

mega cringe

 

[hivemind]

There is only one act required to get the reward

Spoiler

 

[Trashos]

I think this is a problem with the way video game criticism works rather than a problem with Avellone being a lesser artist. It is almost universally agreed that Planescape: Torment towers above its peers in the medium, even after 20 years, and so deserves the label of "classic." But because of the immaturity of industry journalists and critics, there is a tendency to play up its significance through inappropriate comparisons with other mediums, ie "the story of Planescape: Torment would hold up even as literature." This is due to the simple fear that "great writing... for a game" is but faint praise, indeed, and fails to capture the magnitude of the achievement.

Great post in general, but as for the above, I have to admit: I do consider PST's story to be one of the best stories I have seen, possibly even the best. I am not comparing executions here, which have vastly different challenges in different media, just the stories themselves.

 

[MRY]

MRY

please be less self-deprecating, it really does get like borderline cringeworthy when in like one article you mention your avarageness(compared to your genius talented peers) like seven million times, I get not wanting to sound arrogant when you are like self aware about your place in the world but honestly it just feels so over the top when you like write like a long and interesting post where every chapter has a "i'm a big dumbass tho, actually, I dont think i'm tolkien xdd" disclaimer

Whenever I write long, pretentious articles, I worry that they will be seen not merely as pretentious but also as a put-down directed toward people who supported me in my hobby as a game developer (like my colleagues at inXile) or as a sideways means of bragging that I'm better than other people. That worry is fueled in part by having had extreme negative reactions to a number of articles about RPG design I've read over the years (no need to name names), and partly because I know my own flaws and am trying to compensate for them. Obviously, if the effect winds up seeming disingenuous or humble-bragging, then I've missed the target. But the truth is, I do think that my colleagues at inXile had many talents that exceeded mine; if nothing else, they produced many times more content than I did in the same span of time; my methods could not possibly populate an RPG. They're much more dedicated to the craft than I am.

And I'm definitely not even close to Tolkien.

[EDIT: Also, while the collective effect of the disclaimers over many articles may be annoying, the articles are meant to stand alone; heaven forfend I leave out such a disclaimer in one article, and that's the one and only one that someone reads...]

 

[Cael]

hose of us who still believe in dignity, order, decency and civility must stand firm or the entire western culture, born of the chivalric ideals, is lost.

mega cringe

Typifies the average millenial honourless dog. Talking about being virtuous? Cringe! Talking about honour? Cringe! Talking about being nice to people? Mega cringe!

 

[hivemind]

Typifies the average millenial honourless dog. Talking about being virtuous? Cringe! Talking about honour? Cringe! Talking about being nice to people? Mega cringe!

*cringes*

 

[Lyric Suite]

That's liek, much teh edgy.

In other news, i liked Torment precisely because it wasn't try hard ugly and evil, even though the philosophical underpinning of it was of dubious quality.

 

[anvi]

That's liek, much teh edgy.

In other news, i liked Torment precisely because it wasn't try hard ugly and evil, even though the philosophical underpinning of it was of dubious quality.

So then wtf is left?

Also where are my tags?!

 

[Lyric Suite]

What you mean what is left. Do you think there's nothing else besides try hard meanness and ugliness?

 

[anvi]

Yeah, and philosophical underpinning of dubious quality. I mean in this game btw. I hate this game. It is like Day of the Tentacle.

 

[Agame]

@Hivemind any chance you can self eject again soon? For realz?

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Why hate Day of the Tentacle?

 

[hivemind]

There is always the eternal truth of Islam.

 

[hivemind]

@Hivemind any chance you can self eject again soon? For realz?

probs not self eject but I might get bored

 

[anvi]

Why hate Day of the Tentacle?

I hate everything that is all story and no gameplay and yet the story is boring.

 

[MRY]

Day of the Tentacle is a weird point of comparison -- I would put it as among the most gameplay oriented of point-and-click adventures. The story is totally secondary and it has a huge amount of multi-step puzzles that you are running in parallel, rather than the usual sequence of "use A on B to get C, use C on D to get E," etc.

 

[anvi]

Yeah but I don't consider combining things in the inventory and clicking it on something to be gameplay, so to me it has no gameplay. I hate all those old adventure games. Especially ones like Monkey Island where their crappy humour is so sure of itself. Except Sam n Max, that one was quite ok. And Maniac Mansion because it was so early I can excuse it for being so terrible. All it had to beat was space invaders. Oh, and Fate of Atlantis, that game was good. But besides all those, I hate all the rest. And Planescape.

 

[Elex]

it’s gameplay.
Gameplay happen 100% in our brain.
Clicking on item for solve an enigma is not different from clicking on a target for killing it.
it’s always find a solution to overcome an obstacle.
the limit of point and click adventure: there is one and only one correct solution.
while in an rpg the potential solution are endless (in a pen and paper rpg).

 

[Beastro]

Wrong. Just take a look at the Codex. A good proportion of Codexians here think that bullying and harassing others is a good thing and the victims should just suck it up.

As someone who neither bullies nor harasses, yet advocates the latter bit, I feel I need to interject.

Those people simply seem to want that to foster an antagonistic environment for drama and laughs. That has nothing to do with stating the age old wisdom every school yard teaches that being a whiny bitch about being picked on is a terrible thing and to brush that off and only task seriously what should be taken seriously. In this case, nothing any Codexer can do to you beyond stepping into doxxing territory to go for you personally out of malice.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I get now what kind of tag you are looking for. The dumbfuck tag.

 

[Cael]

Wrong. Just take a look at the Codex. A good proportion of Codexians here think that bullying and harassing others is a good thing and the victims should just suck it up.

As someone who neither bullies nor harasses, yet advocates the latter bit, I feel I need to interject.

Those people simply seem to want that to foster an antagonistic environment for drama and laughs. That has nothing to do with stating the age old wisdom every school yard teaches that being a whiny bitch about being picked on is a terrible thing and to brush that off and only task seriously what should be taken seriously. In this case, nothing any Codexer can do to you beyond stepping into doxxing territory to go for you personally out of malice.

If that were the case, we won't get suicides from cyber bullying. The fact of the matter is, a campaign of stalking, downvoting and attacks is malicious. Just because some can shrug it off and others can't doesn't justify that kind of uncivilised behaviour.

 

[Beastro]

The fact of the matter is, a campaign of stalking, downvoting and attacks is malicious. Just because some can shrug it off and others can't doesn't justify that kind of uncivilised behaviour.

Yes, same as bullying on school grounds.

But with that said, it doesn't mean bullying shouldn't be a part of life as it teaches important lessons in life in overcoming such kind of crap in life and to minimize yourself becoming a future target of it.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Yes bulling is important because it teaches how to deal with bulling.

 

[Beastro]

Yes bulling is important because it teaches how to deal with not being walked over later in life

Better you learn how to stand up for yourself and shit shit down against some snot nose twerps in school than trying grasp such things as already developed adult needing to deal with people like co-workers.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Martial arts schools do the teaching.