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Game News Jagged Alliance: Flashback Kickstarter begins

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If anyone from Full Control happens to be reading this, here's why I think your Kickstarter is full of suck and why I don't have a dime of trust in you:

None of you in the video look intellectually convincing and you literally look like a band of beggars. Because none of you seem to have a semblance of assertiveness to convince me that you know just what the fuck you are talking about and more importantly, what exactly you want. Instead, you look more like an excited ragtag of modders & fanfic writers and I doubt anything you would write could possibly match the smart hilarity of anything in JA series. From Ice Williams' annoying disposition to Reaper's you-can't-make-this-shit-up kind of fucked up lines, what it takes to get the general character and attitude of JA2, feels well beyond the mild and docile vibe you give off. The way you speak about JA2 is basically like this: "man, when I played JA2 for the first time, I was like, WHOA, you know what I'm talking about? Let's make a game like that and call it Jagged Alliance, yeah". As per one of my favourite quotes: "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" and you certainly cannot explain it simply so naturally, I doubt if you understand what makes JA2 in the first place.

What can you do? Not give us talking mugshots of happy faces telling us how happy and grateful you are, for a start. All the stuff you mentioned in the updates: yes, you should have talked about them in the beginning with more conviction. Maybe after you talked about how and why you think JA games are such good games. Less face time, more history and elaboration with instructive pictures. JA is a niche and ambiguous expressions don't fill niches. Tell us about the bitch and tell us how you will nail her. Don't tell us that you're happy she gave a hot look in your direction.

About ambiguity: "Not dumbing down but improvements where needed" is a tale so fucking old, we don't even want to waste another second finding out where your own heart really lies. Stealth? What the fuck is wrong with stealth? Stealth in JA2 is fucking brilliant. Better than in almost any CRPG. You want to improve on it? You better go into details or not even touch on the subject. Cover? Do you even realize that the word "cover" is death sentence for old gamers? Maybe what you have in mind is good (and some of it seems to be), but you have a major problem communicating what it is.

Regardless of whether you are up to the task or not, I just hate the idea that you guys get to write a prequel of sorts to JA series, sort of an origin story of AIM and several old characters. Here's the thing: regardless of how good Flashback might turn out to be, it will never be considered a real JA game. Because the lineage is broken. You simply cannot get the essence of it, at least not without some of the original designers involved. Bethesda didn't and you most certainly won't. You are just a bunch of outsiders who have licensed the IP. That's like some random guy impregnating the royal prostitute that the king once fucked and claiming that the baby from you is the heir to the throne.

Also, LOS-based FOW is full of suck. Exploration is cool but that shit will only work on the first playthrough and will be a burden every time you play the game again, unless the world is randomised / procedurally generated but even then, not a good solution. What is a good solution? Not LOS-based FOW. If you have played JA2 enough times, with or without 1.13, you can more or less visualise what will work and what will not with relative ease. Can you imagine playing through JA2 several times, having to explore the maps you know time and again? My personal suggestion: give the general outline in FOW sans details like doors, windows, furniture and whatever debris there might be. And maybe completely blacked out FOW only at a very long distance. Very long. Will your maps be big enough to have very long distances?

And, mod tools / source. Probably not at release, given your resources but certainly at some point down the line. Without a community to back you up and fix and improve whatever stupid you put into the game, it won't survive long.

Also, managing several of your mercs in real-time is a fucking mess. It's a game of twitch. JA2 suffers from this. Make it RTwP outside combat.
 

Helly

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Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
New update on weapon customisation !

Weaponprogression.jpg

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:rage:
 

Jaesun

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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2079547763/jagged-alliance-flashback/posts/470796?ref=activity

Weapon Customization

To give you the high level rundown here, there are things we definitely want to do and then we also have some ideas in our mind that we want to hear your point of view upon. As a basis, we will run with Jagged Alliance 2 for stats and balance. Then look at 1.13 for balancing fixes and additional features. This approach gives us a good and sound baseline to start with.

We have the following on our must have and to do list:

Different classes of weapons similar to Jagged Alliance 2 (e.g. Pistols, Machine Guns, Shotguns etc.)
Skill tree for classes of weapons based on usage
Customization via attachment points
Ammunition with different properties
Weight and inventory space has influence on the gameplay (e.g. AP and movement speed)
Dual wield small weapons

And we have some ideas to discuss:

  • Using a weapon will slowly damage it to the point where it's destroyed. The more you use a given weapon, the more damage it takes.
  • You will be able to repair damaged weapon at your base at a cost (not only at the base actually, but if a weapon is nearly done, than you'll need to do it in the base).
  • Selling worn weapons gives you less money than a new weapon would.
  • As you use the weapon you gain skill in using said weapon to give you more damage, accuracy etc. But at the same time there is an negative effect on unlearning other skills. This counters building ultra powerful characters with 100 in all skills and then destroying the enemy. So balancing out your team suddenly matters more
  • For the base building we want to have a shooting range, where you can both test out weapon customizations to see the effect before committing to it. And at the same time you can spend time+money on training your mercenaries.
More Details

Adding attachments will decrease or increase your weapon stats. The choices you make will determine things like weapon range, weight, repair expenses and most importantly, damage! Weapon customization and development is not about crafting weapons from the ground up, but taking the weapons you find or buy in the world and tweaking those by changing or upgrading their parts. Only by recruiting a character such as a gunsmith will you get access to the meat of weapon customization and repair options.

All weapons are grounded in reality, so that means no science fiction, no lasers, no nothing that goes beyond shooting hard lead out of a barrel or rocket propelled explosives. We will cover a wide variety of weapons that are divided up into these classes:

Pistols
Submachine guns
Rifles
Assault Rifles
Sniper Rifles
Shotguns
Light Machine guns
Grenade and rocket launchers

Weapon Attachments

Attachments for weapons are diverse and the amount of attachments depend on the weapon and its number of slots. Slots included on most weapons are the top (scopes), muzzle (silencer, fire suppressor), under barrel (bipod, handgrip) and stocks but the amount of slots can also be expanded via modifications such as rails. Please note some weapons will have a lot of room for customization, while others will not (A pistol with grenade launcher attached wouldn't make too much sense most times, eh?).
Weaponcustomization.jpg

Using modifications such as rails it's possible to open up for even more attachments, like flashlights, laser sights etc.
Weapons and changes to them can easily be tested in the shooting range, this allows the player to test a weapon build before leaving to conquer the rest of the map or solving optional missions.

The list also does not include melee weapons which is part of the CQC training skill characters will need, which opens up for (silent) lethal, and non-lethal takedowns.

Ammunition

Flashback will feature several different types of ammunition for weapons, some will not be available to all weapon classes, some will be extremely expensive and rare (will require difficult raid missions of drug lord strongholds for example. You never know what a warlord has stored in his safe, do you?) while others wear down weapons after use (see Depleted uranium ammo). Taking inspiration from the 1.13 community mod, these are some of the ammunition types we really want in.

  • Normal bullet - effective against soft armor and unarmoured enemies. Useless against heavy armoured enemies.
  • High quality bullets - Higher quality ammunition that boosts a weapon's effective range and damage.
  • Rubber bullets - handy shotgun ammo for incapacitating soft armoured and unarmoured enemies. Don't expect to shoot anything else with it. Useless against heavy armoured enemies.
  • Depleted Uranium - Powerful bullets that severely damages weapons used with it, effective against all enemies. Incredibly expensive and rare.
  • Stealth bullets - Standard bullets with some gunpowder removed to reduce weapon sound. Effectively paired with silencers for very quiet incursions. Less powder means less damage.
  • Grenades (HE, Fragmentation and gas) - High Explosives is effective at destroying vehicles, while fragmentation is against soft armoured and unarmoured enemies. Has little effect against heavy armoured enemies. Gas is effective against all enemies not wearing gas masks (be sure you wear one when moving through areas of gas too).
  • Heavy explosives (C4) - Available as radio controlled or timed explosives.
  • Antipersonnel and Anti-vehicle mines - High explosives will kill or destroy anything that moves close.
  • Rocket propelled grenades - For use in RPGs, available in HE or Fragmentation versions. Highly effective against light vehicles and all types of enemies.
 
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Update said:
Weapon Attachments

Attachments for weapons are diverse and the amount of attachments depend on the weapon and its number of slots. Slots included on most weapons are the top (scopes), muzzle (silencer, fire suppressor), under barrel (bipod, handgrip) and stocks but the amount of slots can also be expanded via modifications such as rails. Please note some weapons will have a lot of room for customization, while others will not (A pistol with grenade launcher attached wouldn't make too much sense most times, eh?).

This is incline.

You will be able to repair damaged weapon at your base at a cost (not only at the base actually, but if a weapon is nearly done, than you'll need to do it in the base).

This is retarded.

Only by recruiting a character such as a gunsmith will you get access to the meat of weapon customization and repair options.

As is this one.

As you use the weapon you gain skill in using said weapon to give you more damage, accuracy etc. But at the same time there is an negative effect on unlearning other skills. This counters building ultra powerful characters with 100 in all skills and then destroying the enemy. So balancing out your team suddenly matters more

This is a stupid way to counter "powerful characters with 100 in all skills". The way to counter "powerful characters with 100 in all skills" is to restrict that by preventing leveling & skill point inflation. And it is particularly stupid if it is per weapon instead of per type but even then, "unlearning" sounds stupid. Maybe nerf advancement modifier per types at most.

Stealth bullets

They are called subsonic FFS. And achieving that quality isn't about the amount of gunpowder. Neither is the penetration capability (or damage) of a bullet. These guys are dumber and more illiterate then dumb illiterate hicks as hicks at least know their guns.

High quality bullets - Higher quality ammunition that boosts a weapon's effective range and damage.

Someone throw these guys into a meeting of gun worshipping hicks.
 

spectre

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Oct 26, 2008
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Wow, they really need to get some gun pornist on the team asap.

As you use the weapon you gain skill in using said weapon to give you more damage, accuracy etc. But at the same time there is an negative effect on unlearning other skills.
Brilliant. So, two weeks of shooting the PSG makes you forget how to shoot an AK?
Really, why fuck with shit that wasn't broken?
Ivan himself says: "Gun, all gun like fingers on hand"

Also, somebody tell these dickwads that the point of boomsticks is that the bullet stays effective no matter who pulls the trigger.
Now, precision and familiarity plays a role, but in that case you should have worded it better.

Skill tree for classes of weapons based on usage
Not sure what to make of it. It they want to give each character a separate skill tree... not bad, but this here ain't an RPG (laptop guy has no stats and all that).
For all intents and purposes, stats with merc specializations were enough to differentiate between chars.
We don't need no stinking skill trees here, like we din't need exp, levels and points to spend.
Learning by doing is sufficient.

Weight and inventory space has influence on the gameplay (e.g. AP and movement speed)
Here's hoping that I'm reading it wrong, cause it looks like grade A Cunter Strike retardation (I'll pull out a knife to run faster).
What was so wrong about the old system - different AP costs to ready weapons and encumbrance sapping your stamina to reduce APs?
Again, did these guys really bother to actually learn the inner workings of a system they plan on reimagining?

Adding attachments will decrease or increase your weapon stats. The choices you make will determine things like weapon range, weight, repair expenses and most importantly, damage!
Why most importantly? Doesn't make sense unless you're talking about fitting a grenade launcher.
 

MetalCraze

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This counters building ultra powerful characters with 100 in all skills and then destroying the enemy.

Somebody never played JA2. Why am I not surprised?

Even if you are aspie enough to spend a week grinding 100 in ALL skills you won't destroy an enemy... Or is he talking about Skyrim?

As you use the weapon you gain skill in using said weapon to give you more damage, accuracy etc.
How the fuck does shooting a weapon more increase its damage?

Stealth bullets

Hahahahaha

Why?! WHY JA license has to always end up in hands of completely clueless imbeciles? WHY?!
 

Lorica

Educated
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Mar 6, 2013
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  • Stealth bullets - Standard bullets with some gunpowder removed to reduce weapon sound. Effectively paired with silencers for very quiet incursions. Less powder means less damage


They just added some concept art:

bullet.jpg
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
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Silly goose, it's clearly a ninja bullet, stealth bullets are a different sort.
bull.jpg

See, this here thing is cunningly designed to look like a weed pipe, but when you least expect it...WHAM!
 

zeitgeist

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What specifically do you need to know that effects you the customer? The only thing that effects you so far are DRM, and they already addressed that. There will be NO DRM on the base game or future expansions.
Given that the "excuse" the Chaos Chronicles developers gave for making JA:BiA was "evil bitComposer made us", it would be awfully nice to know everything.
 
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Does Camfield really matter? Guy was involved with JA2, UB and Wizardry 8 as programmer, also credited under additional design and the only other game he's involved with ever is some shitty racing game from 2007 that nobody even remembers. I might be wrong but sounds to me like he's in only because they needed someone to namedrop.

Establishing an advisory board of modders is a decent thing to do, though they must have realised that the game can't possibly survive in the long run without their support.
 
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Does Camfield really matter? Guy was involved with JA2, UB and Wizardry 8 as programmer, also credited under additional design and the only other game he's involved with ever is some shitty racing game from 2007 that nobody even remembers. I might be wrong but sounds to me like he's in only because they needed someone to namedrop.

Establishing an advisory board of modders is a decent thing to do, though they must have realised that the game can't possibly survive in the long run without their support.
I think it matters in the sense that he has more star power to the series than the developers themselves and they want the fans to realize that they want to make a better game than that atrocity that is Back in Business. Hopefully with more major modder support and maybe some of the core team back, this could be a legitimate Jagged Alliance game, even if it's just a Deadly Games venture in the end. I'd prefer Deadly Games than that POS that is called Back in Business..
 
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Ok, I found this old interview with Ian Curry from October 1999:

Q: What is the future of Jagged Alliance series, is there a JA3 or JA2: DG on the drawing board?

IAN: JA3 is in progress. We already have a multiplayer prototype working! I can't tell you much about it (other than what I just gave away) other than it will be a much different product than people expect. JA2 was a natural evolution from JA1, but JA3 is totally different. Chris Camfield is heading the design, and dramatic changes are taking place (all for the better of course). It will be controversial to those who think JA2 is perfect the way it is. We aren't planning a JA2:DG because we can make JA3 in the same amount of time (JA2 is not suited for multiplayer in any way, shape, or form) and JA3 is being *designed* with multiplayer in mind. However, we are working an expansion pack for JA2. It's not yet official, but hopefully will be very soon. Stay tuned for an announcement...

Q: Do you plan for the sequel to be evolutionary or revolutionary?

IAN: Definitely revolutionary. We're not going to be accused of doing "more of the same". It's going to be different. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
http://www.strategyplanet.com/jaggedalliance/interviews/icurrie_oct99.htm

I guess we will never know how JA3 would have turned out though it sounds like it could have gone bonkers. Anyhow, if Ian Curry saw it fit to hand over design to Camfield, that's a vote of confidence, I guess.

Then again, one wonders:

Q: Are you happy with the way Jagged Alliance 2 turned out?

IAN: ... I'm unhappy about mistakes we've made. We can tell from all the feedback we received the game is too hard on Novice level for most people.

Too hard on Novice? FFS! Imagine the nerdrage if he just came out and said that today.
 
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The game is not even in production yet and they are already selling shitty DLC:

New Digital Add-ons:

New skin packs (For $15 and up) $5 per skin

IMP_skin_pack_2.jpg


New Weapon Model Pack: (For $15 and up) $10

Weapons_pack_1.jpg

Can't wait to see the new opportunities of post-release milkage, made possible thanks to Kickstarters! And I foresee a great deal more drama to occur until release. Previously undisclosed shady design decisions, publisher intervention, dumbing down and many, many more to follow. These guys have "rip off snakeoil salesmen" written on their foreheads.

R00FLES!
 

Jarpie

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The game is not even in production yet and they are already selling shitty DLC:

New Digital Add-ons:

New skin packs (For $15 and up) $5 per skin

IMP_skin_pack_2.jpg


New Weapon Model Pack: (For $15 and up) $10

Weapons_pack_1.jpg

Can't wait to see the new opportunities of post-release milkage, made possible thanks to Kickstarters! And I foresee a great deal more drama to occur until release. Previously undisclosed shady design decisions, publisher intervention, dumbing down and many, many more to follow. These guys have "rip off snakeoil salesmen" written on their foreheads.

R00FLES!

They are also stepping pretty close to the copyright infrigment with those, and what the fuck is Back to the Future ripoff doing in Jagged Alliance game? I was immediately put off by their "Games from Soccer Dads for Soccer Dads!" mission statement in their website and it's gone downhill ever since.
 

spectre

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If you look at the previous game by Full Control, the day -1 DLC packs with skins and weapons won't surprise you in the slightest. Frontline Tactics allowed you to buy in game money and unlock soldier slots (stuff that you do naturally as you play, though it takes some grinding) for real monies.

Now, I'm only waiting until they rape the game with inane level scaling, like they did in Frontline Tactics. Swear to dog, that shit was worse than Oblibians.
 

Direwolf

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Can't believe this shit funded. :(
 

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