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And stretch goal $100k."Indie AAA"
Technically you are correct!
AAA stands for high production values hence huge budgets
Indie stands for small studios with limited resources
But we have an exception as a studio located in Egypt and in Africa
Our cost is much lower so the campaign goal of 100K euros (which is a joke from western perspective) resembles for us more than 2Million euros (the exchange rate is over twenty)
So we believe we can use crowdfunding to offer gamers a choice to establish an indie studio with quality production standards that respects them and never have the corporate greed
We are really impressed by how much you are informative on our culture
It seems you did not see the campaign video
Fear not we are not strict in the historical realism like Kingdom Come
The story will include a side fantasy subplot which is based on the myths and legends of the Sassanian culture
Full of massive terrifying red flags DO NOT BACK, here's the short list:
1. Not asking for anything like enough money (even given their middle east location)
2. Incredibly poor writing and editing throughout the kick starter page, laced with egregious misuse of industry terminology, and non-stop namedropping of unaffiliated studios.
3. Inconsistent design aesthetic.
4. No previous experience, and no involvement from more experienced developers.
5. No indication of how they plan to manage financial resources.
6. No Financial management personnel on staff.
7. Physical products in reward tiers, no manufacturing/distribution personnel on staff.
8. Already announcing plans for DLC.
9. Plans to be dubbed into eight languages. (This alone would cost more than their funding goal).
10. Hilariously unrealistic target date of 2020 for a very ambitious 60 hour action RPG, even if they were a AAA studio (they aren't) this wouldn't be a reasonable expectation.
I could keep going, but frankly my guess is that this is either some naive college kids who don't really understand what they are doing, or a scam.
Okay allow us to respond:
First the salaries:
- you do not live in the middle east and specifically Egypt so let us inform you of some of our team current wages
our lead environment artist earns the same as our lead game developer earns 5000 pounds a month (about $300) and even our character animator earn less.
Only character artists are the high ones reaching 8000 pound (about $500).
These are the most expensive departments because others ones are much cheaper (translators / actors / composers) specially they are contractors not a full time job.
and some of the founders are developers and testers who spend their own savings on the project and work for free.
Second the production:
we stated clearly that this goal is the bare minimum required to enter steam early access.
so the current goal is not the complete budget at all.
the only exception is our game designer who participated in the quest design of the original assassin's creed game.
- criticism is welcomed point us to the poor and weak points and we will elaborate more and discuss it and edit it.
- can you guide us where is the inconsistency ?
- that point is valid indeed we have no previous development experience in large projects only small one like mobile games.
but we have started the project about two years ago and gained enough experience to be confident that we can deliver.
- three game developers / one character animator / one environment artist / one game designer / two testers.
- good point we will address more in detail in the campaign but right now.
we will need to acquire at least one Xsense motion capture suit costs about $25K but can be bought at a discount for indie studios.
then we will have full-time :
contractors:
- one composer / one concept artist / two character artists / three voice actors / one mocap actor.
- our goal is to have a few missions with five enemy unit types and two bosses in the early access phase.
We estimate it would take us about 6 to 9 months to reach it.
Side note the studio is owned by ZoneTech a registered legal company in Egypt.
- one of the founders is the producer and the responsible of financial tasks check our website.
- this a little weird physical rewards only require contracting with some manufacturers and shipment services and this too is handled through our producer connections as he worked with media companies and their retailers.
- what is the problem of having a DLC later on ? provided it is an addition to the game scope from a narrating point of view not splitting the game itself in half.
- this one is really completely wrong as if you want to see it that way it is written translation not dubbing and there is a big difference! the dubbing is only in Arabic. of all your points this one is your assumption
- it is October 2020 so it is more than two years and even so it is the estimated delivery we plan to enter the beta stage at this time and official release will depend on the game final condition
Finally thank you have caught our attention to some important details to include in the campaign
As always valid criticism is very much welcomed
If your genuinely interested in feedback here are my thoughts, but you probably won't like them:
Then come back to kickstarter 6-12 months after that games successful launch. and you can say "Look we did this smaller project and it went well, and now we know how much it costs to make a game, and we've proven we can do it, and we know this is how much it will cost to make Knights of Light to the standard we want to. And you'll already have an existing fan base cheering for you and promoting your game because they like your first one.
- I don't have to live in Cairo to understand it's economic realities, and even there you are far far away from a reasonable budget for a project of this size, my salary estimates are not that far off from what you described. The problem is that you are dramatically underestimating your production costs.
- You're presentation lacks consistent visual aesthetic and style and you need to either dramatically improve your grasp of the english language, or hire a copy editor who can speak and write more fluently, alternatively, you could look at a project that's less dependent on dialogue and text than a sprawling ARPG epic.
- Ultimately, my advice would be to put this one on the back burner, it's too big, and too ambitious for a first commercial effort from what is a small studio. No amount of study or effort is going to prepare you for building and releasing a commercial product. So make your first commercial product small.
Instead build something small scale using the same engine, and the same tools, and the same pipeline make a smaller game at a traditional independent scale, in your native language, with subtitles/text only translation. Focus on quality, not scope.
Use this to learn wtf you are doing, and to build a reputation.
Don't double dip. Make your kickstarter goal enough to complete the game, with no early access period.
Release the smaller game, and learn how to support it post launch, build a community around this game.
TLDR:
You are trying to be Usain Bolt, but you haven't figured out how to crawl yet, and you have no idea how expensive running shoes are.
Make a smaller game first, and people will get behind you.
In response to your other notes:
Don't even talk about DLC, it's kickstarter poison, if you've got a few succesfull kickstarter campaigns under your belt you might get away with it, but not as a first timer.
Physical rewards have mutilated Kickstarter campaigns before, shipping is very expensive, general rule of thumb: no physical rewards with less than 500,000 USD in requested funding.
The way your text is currently written implies dubbing in multiple languages. That's not my assumption, thats what you said.
If you have an experienced producer in charge of the finance, you should say so, and list other products he has worked on.
No one cares if you are owned by a registered company, you've made it very clear that they aren't publishing your product or funding it by stating that you are an independent studio, and plan to self publish.
Two years is an incredibly agressive timeframe for a new team trying to publish a 60 hour ARPG, there's just no realistic way for you to hit beta at the level of production values you're describing with the team size and experience you've discussed in 24 months.
You should be planning a minimum of 3 years for something like this with an experienced team, as new developers you really shouldn't be biting off this much at once AT ALL, but if I were to guess, I would put it closer to 5 years.
Very well your points about the campaign will be considered and really gave us some pointers to update and edit a few sections.
As for your other points it generally revolves around one point: experience and it is indeed an important one no deny about it, you can consider it the golden nugget!
You prefer to play it safe and better safe than sorry.
You are correct indeed no question about it! so you are logical and reasonable here no doubt.
But also there is others who want to take a risk and a challenge and of-course it is more dangerous we admit.
Everyone have to make choices and some risks are seen as a challenge with a desire to overcome them.
In the end your criticism was sincere that is why the discussion was beneficial.
Regardless of the differences you have our respect.
Thanks
Wow.. most of this response is completely unintelligible......
I think you're saying you recognize that your project is high risk.
It's not high risk, as presented, it is a near certain failure.
Making it in Unreal: Knights of Light remodels the RPG from a Middle Eastern perspective
An Egyptian studio is learning the lessons of The Witcher 3 and bringing its own historical knowledge to the genre
There are many games that use the Middle East as a backdrop, but all too few that tell their stories from a Middle Eastern perspective. Knights of Light is the counterpoint we’ve been missing – an RPG influenced by The Witcher 3 but rooted in the history and mythology of Iraq.
Knights of Light takes the battle of al-Qādisiyyah as its focal point – a climactic clash in 636 AD between the new Islamic Caliphate and crumbling but powerful Sasanian Empire, which ruled Iraq at the time.
This is a story aching to be told from different perspectives – despite the title, there are no angelic warriors here, and no barbarians offered up for morally unambiguous slaughter. Exploring Knights of Light’s open world will introduce you to complex characters on both sides of the conflict.
Ahmed Fouad, the CEO of Cairo-based Rumbling Games Studio, worked as an English and Russian language tour guide before entering the software industry. As such, Knights of Light is shaped by his deep love for Middle Eastern history. Not to mention CD Projekt Red.
PHOTOS FROM ANCIENT HISTORY
Rumbling Games Studio is currently eight members strong, plus a team of about ten contractors. Fouad hopes to double his in-house staff with the help of the game’s Kickstarter campaign, but even with that boost, the team has identified photorealism as a huge challenge.
To begin with, the team attempted to create the textures that would define the look of their environments by hand using a substance designer.
“But we were wasting too much time just creating one texture, or modelling a small rock,” Fouad recalls. “So we chose to use Megascans.”
Quixel Megascans is an enormous online library of globally sourced 3D assets, textures, vegetation, debris, and the like for use in visual effects work. While the idea of buying or borrowing textures might sound like a shortcut likely to cheapen the result, this particular library has been leaned on by some of the highest budget productions you can imagine. Scans enabled the speedy creation of realistic scenery in The Jungle Book, for instance, which later won the 2017 Oscar for Best Visual Effects.
“We use it to buy photorealistic textures and assets, for example, for trees,” Fouad says. “That helps us save money and time when building the foundation of the landscape.”
Rumbling Games has been relying on another company named Texturingxyz, which specialises in capturing facial, body, and eye detail using a “unique multi-stitching material method.” The upshot of that is a library full of extremely high-res scans that retain all the roughness, bumps, and cavities of human skin. And, sometimes, the not quite human: the pockmarked visage of Thanos in Infinity War was brought about partly by incorporating Texturingxyz’s facial scans of people in their 60s.
“The approach to photorealism was the main challenge when we started our studio,” Fouad says.
A WORLD UNSEEN IN GAMES
The game world of Knights of Light takes in a huge swathe of seventh century Iraq, eventually clocking in at 400 square kilometers if Rumbling Studio is able to finish not only the game but its two planned expansions. “I know this is three times bigger than The Witcher 3,” Fouad boasts. “Assassin’s Creed Origins is 100 square kilometers.”
Despite the huge ambition involved in producing a digital version of Iraq of this size, Fouad is wary of the compromise necessary in cutting the country back any further. “If we wanted to squeeze it into 100 square kilometers we would be losing too many landmarks,” he says.
The map of Knights of Light will take in desert, mountains, and a far more diverse landscape than the one-dimensional Iraq portrayed by popular culture, stuffed with historical buildings. The team are drawing on the art and architecture of the Sasanian Empire, which ruled Iraq at the time, and inherited a unique aesthetic from Assyrian and Sumerian culture.
The pre-alpha footage Rumbling Games has shared so far is already notable for its stunning draw distance, used to show off distant, snow-tipped peaks.
“Epic Games use Unreal Engine 4 for Fortnite, and ported it to the Nintendo Switch,” Fouad points out. “They give us a lot of technical support for optimisation.”
It’s been years since Fouad first used the engine at a fateful Global Game Jam in Egypt, and two since his team began studying its tools and building its experience. Eventually, Rumbling Games hopes to become something like its beloved inspirations CD Projekt Red – independent and unrivalled in production values.
That's the game from Vavra's tweet.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rumbling-games/knights-of-light
More Reddit.
You're presentation lacks consistent visual aesthetic and style and you need to either dramatically improve your grasp of the english language
In the end your criticism was sincere that is why the discussion was beneficial.
Regardless of the differences you have our respect.
Why Early Access?
“Being a game development studio in Egypt and in the Middle East is a huge challenge.
The game industry in the region is quite limited and primitive.
We have been developing the game for three years now.
But finishing and completing the whole project is quite challenging on our own.
So we decided to let gamers judge the potential of our project.
Our mindset is to focus on quality over quantity (visuals / animations / cinematic / optimizations) with an indie spirit for the budget limitations.”
Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“We plan to finish the full game content in one year.
So the game will enter the beta stage after one year from now.
After that we will polish it up to have the final release within a few months later.”
How is the full version planned to differ from the Early Access version?
“During early access we will polish and add depth to the battle events.
This will provide replay value beside the campaign missions.
After that the following will be added:
”
- The rest of the campaign missions
- All complete cinematic cut-scenes for the story
- Larger battlefields with a lot more units engaged
- Full skills and abilities tree for the two characters
- More unique units and bosses with special abilities
- Tribes and villages system with shifting alliances
- Different side quests with additional NPCs
- Survival mechanics in the vast desert dunes
- Ancient Sassanian landmarks and ruins to explore
- Several side activities like hunting and exploring
What is the current state of the Early Access version?
“The core mechanics are implemented and requires more polish.
The system can be easily expanded with more features without issues.
Characters abilities and skills are limited right now.
There are currently four missions in the game.
Random battle events will be available for the player to encounter.
The game is playable and fairly optimized for smooth experience.
No major or critical bugs are present to break the game flow.
However any discovered issues will be addressed immediately.”
Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access?
“Naturally the game price will increase with more content being added.
However we will try to keep the price increase at a lower scale to accommodate everyone.”
How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?
“Steam discussion boards will be used to receive the feedback.
We do not take the early access tag as an excuse.
We want to receive the community's feedback and criticism as well.
Earning the community's trust in our potential is the key for success.
Any constructive criticism will be taken to heart.”
We have planned our goals very carefully to keep the original game scope in mind and make a room for more content. We have decided to start with a small initial goal that will provide the bare minimum game-play for steam early access. However several stretch goals ahead and the full game features will be funded resulting in no early access.
So we need to buy at least one Xsense motion capture suit which costs about $25K but can be bought at a discount price for indie studios.
Xsens Indie Program key facts:
- Studios invest in Xsens hardware
- Free Xsens software for participants in the first year
- Access to ongoing support via BASE community
- Available to companies with turnover under ~750k (EUR/USD)
- Only available in US, Canada and Europe
Yet a bit later they state on the same pageOur estimate is we need another two years to enter the beta stage and prepare for release. So the total development process is four years.
Our estimates to reach the alpha stage and enter steam early access is 9 to 12 months.
Our game writer is very obsessed with history to the tiniest details.
To provide more authentic references we have the consultation of an academic history professor from the university of Toronto who will cooperate with our writer to review and validate the project historical accuracy.
Despite being a historical story we will introduce some fantasy elements.
The Middle Eastern fantasy & culture are RARELY introduced in games that is why the experience will be very authentic and different.
"Indie AAA"
It's called gatekeeping and visionary auteurs do it so that only the deserving will play their game duh.Translation: "We made this game with a tiny team but we are going to charge full price regardless".