Let's play Alpha Brotocol (and Rage together)

[MasterSmithFandango]

I'd like to comment on this LP more, but I... can't. It sucks the soul out of me just to read it, and posting afterwards... it's salt in the wound, man.

 

[Cassidy]

Is this the reason why when I took that screenshot the gold-plated AR looked like cheese?

 

[Silellak]

The game's biggest problem isn't its combat and stealth, it's the level design railoading.

I could boil AP down to a one-word issue, that word would be "railroading" - you're railroaded through the linear levels, railroaded into idiotic action sequences by Thorton's often-inexplicably asinine actions, and railroaded through a story with only shallow, mostly-cosmetic C&C.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Look, this game can be blasted from about 80 different levels, and all of them valid, but honestly, the C&C isn't bad. I think it is way overhyped, and it doesn't provide really meaningful change in the game, but it's really not bad. If a better game was built around the C&C, we'd probably consider it a pretty nice plus. The problem is the game that the C&C is built around. It just goes to show that it takes more than C&C to make a good game.

 

[Silellak]

Yeah, this pissed me off to no end. Thorton figures out who the insider is two missions ago and doesn't tell anyone. In fact, even after this conversation, he doesn't think it's worth mentioning. Maybe he should give Mina a heads-up, or something? Just food for fucking thought.

Also...

Spoiler

Really fucking annoying that you can't tell Marburg about St. Madison being Parker's daughter until the last mission. WTF? Couldn't Thorton have told him that and potentially spared her life at the museum? Also why does Marburg kidnap St. Madison even if she fucking hates Thorton to the point where she knocks him out and escapes his safe house? Yeah, clearly that's going to convince Thorton to let a bomb go off, potentially killing hundreds of people. Brilliant plan, Marburg.

So many chances for actually decent C&C, yet the more you analyze the game's shallow illusion of choice, the more cracks appear.

 

[Silellak]

Just now catching up on this LP since I've finished the game, so one more post and I'll shut up, for now.

Marburg's mansion pissed me off too, but for entirely different reasons than you. I seriously do not know what Obsidian was thinking for this mission.

No matter what your character build, Thorson decides the best approach is to march into the Villa and talk with Marburg - because if he WAS spotted, Marbug would delete the data he's after. Thanks for making my choice for me, Obsidian. What the fuck is this, Oblivion?

Let's say Obsidian is lazy (no!) and doesn't want to create two "different" missions using the same mansion map and the same objectives, just with different starting points and dialog Why not at least allow a steath-build Thortion to, I dunno, hide a weapon on himself? Imagine if you could even take Marburg - or at least his henchmen - out right there mid-conversation, if you'd managed to smuggle a weapon in. Those sorts of relatively small things could go such a long way.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Just now catching up on this LP since I've finished the game, so one more post and I'll shut up, for now.

Marburg's mansion pissed me off too, but for entirely different reasons than you. I seriously do not know what Obsidian was thinking for this mission.

No matter what your character build, Thorson decides the best approach is to march into the Villa and talk with Marburg - because if he WAS spotted, Marbug would delete the data he's after. Thanks for making my choice for me, Obsidian. What the fuck is this, Oblivion?

Let's say Obsidian is lazy (no!) and doesn't want to create two different "missions" using the same mansion map. Why not at least allow a steath-build Thortion to, I dunno, hide a weapon on himself? Imagine if you could even take Marburg - or at least his henchmen - out right there mid-conversation, if you'd managed to smuggle a weapon in. Those sorts of relatively small things could go such a long way.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you. I guess in a deep narrative structure, doing real C&C is actually hard because it does increase the work for each consequence when so many resources are being spent on said narrative.

How can I put this differently. Okay, Fallout is (arguably) the game with the best C&C to be released. Fallout's narrative is pretty spartan, however. The shift in the past five years especially have been towards more "cinematic" games that tell you the story instead of you being a part of the story. Therefore, C&C has become more of a choose your own adventure instead of make this adventure your own. Moreover, I would say what some people think of as C&C is more of open ended or at least non-linear quest design that makes FO (and other games) so great. Let's face it, in Fallout the game ends pretty much the same way every time, but what makes the game great is the different paths everyone takes to get there. No two playthroughs are alike, and not from a narrative perspective, but from a gameplay perspective. AP doesn't deliver this, and maybe the more narrative nature of games prevents it from being feasible.

AP is still shit though, don't get me wrong.

 

[Silellak]

Just now catching up on this LP since I've finished the game, so one more post and I'll shut up, for now.

Marburg's mansion pissed me off too, but for entirely different reasons than you. I seriously do not know what Obsidian was thinking for this mission.

No matter what your character build, Thorson decides the best approach is to march into the Villa and talk with Marburg - because if he WAS spotted, Marbug would delete the data he's after. Thanks for making my choice for me, Obsidian. What the fuck is this, Oblivion?

Let's say Obsidian is lazy (no!) and doesn't want to create two different "missions" using the same mansion map. Why not at least allow a steath-build Thortion to, I dunno, hide a weapon on himself? Imagine if you could even take Marburg - or at least his henchmen - out right there mid-conversation, if you'd managed to smuggle a weapon in. Those sorts of relatively small things could go such a long way.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you. I guess in a deep narrative structure, doing real C&C is actually hard because it does increase the work for each consequence when so many resources are being spent on said narrative.

How can I put this differently. Okay, Fallout is (arguably) the game with the best C&C to be released. Fallout's narrative is pretty spartan, however. The shift in the past five years especially have been towards more "cinematic" games that tell you the story instead of you being a part of the story. Therefore, C&C has become more of a choose your own adventure instead of make this adventure your own. Moreover, I would say what some people think of as C&C is more of open ended or at least non-linear quest design that makes FO (and other games) so great. Let's face it, in Fallout the game ends pretty much the same way every time, but what makes the game great is the different paths everyone takes to get there. No two playthroughs are alike, and not from a narrative perspective, but from a gameplay perspective. AP doesn't deliver this, and maybe the more narrative nature of games prevents it from being feasible.

AP is still shit though, don't get me wrong.

I'm not really asking for dramatic, Fallout-levels of C&C in AP. What I ask for Obsidian to put a bit more effort into the game in easy, obvious ways that make certain actions far more rewarding.

AP's railroaded action sequences are easily the biggest issue for me. Sure, Mass Effect did that too, but it annoyed me less because by the time ME2 rolled around, Bioware had basically dropped any pretense of the game being an RPG, at least with regards to character development. Allocating skillpoints wasn't a matter of steathboy vs. actionboy, but rather simply a choice of how you wanted to fuck your enemies up. And it works.

AP makes the mistake of grasping desperately onto the idea that NO GUYS I'M AN RPG REALLY LOOK YOU CAN MAKE A STEALTH CHARACTER AND AVOID COMBAT SEE, yet then sending that same stealth character into the same stupid action sequences than an action character would. And the biggest issue with this is that it could easily be avoided.

The sequence above with Marburg is a good example - just allow a sneaky Thorton to smuggle his weapons past Marburg's security and use them in the fight, rather than forcing the player into a hand-to-hand action scene. A simple change that respects your character development, with only minor changes to the narrative.

Some other alternatives off the top of my head, just based on what we've seen so far in this LP:

- Allow a sneaky Thorton to disable certain 'boss vehicles' (the Stryker already seen in this LP, and a certain other vehicle that shows up toward the end of the game) by encountering them before the fight. Don't make it easy, but at least make it a possibility. The same thing could be done for other boss fights - Thorton could sabotage the weapons of certain people before encountering them, for instance.

- If Thorton makes it through the Ruins in Rome without triggering an alarm, then the "last stand" sequence never happens. Adds some nice and simple C&C based off Thorton's actions rather than just choosing an option out of a timed dialog minigame.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

That's the question, though. Other than the Marburg example, are those examples of possible C&C or just multiple quest solutions, or are those the same thing? I mean, when compared to Deus Ex, DX tends to give you all of those options in each level (with a few extra thrown in), coupled with open levels, but DX was pretty short on the C&C beyond flavor text, and that is fine.

AP wanted to give you three options to tackle each situation, at least according to the pre-release hype, but what they gave you was... well... one, really (with a few exceptions). Basically, you're going to have to go through all of the linear corridors and the only content you can pass are the extra "mission objectives" (which means lockpicking into an adjacent room to your regular mission objective). The missions always play out the same way, which is why I threw down my... laptop in disgust after Taiwan in my second playthrough. It simply doesn't matter how you build your character, it's always the same experience. The game is a giant pile of fail.

Anyway, yeah... continue LP. My white ass needs to get to bed.

 

[Cassidy]

Banal

 

[Cassidy]

Shit

 

[Cassidy]

Boring

 

[Cassidy]

Analyzed from a gameplay perspective. After playing this game, I have to agree more and more with that Doom developer(Carmack, I think) when he said story is as important for a game as it is for a porn movie when compared to the real deal: the gameplay.

 

[Cassidy]

But now it's the new fad of mixing games with movies to try for a "Hollyjewoodian experience" and most people buy shit because lots of people already did it rather than because it's good.

 

[Cassidy]

If I wanted to only watch a good story, I'd rent a fucking movie. And even the shittiest James Bond movie has a better plot than AP.

 

[Cassidy]

At least this game spared me from the curiousity of ever trying demos of Ass Popamole 1 and 2 and of the next Dragon Rage. And I became fully aware now of what "popamole" means and why it sucks and is shit.

 

[Cassidy]

If you know a game is shit and dumbed down popamole, why do you still buy it? Because as long as you do, the "market" will see no reason to attend to other niches because they seem satisfied with new shit rather than with games they'd rather play.

FFS

 

[Cassidy]

Now, really, skyway is completely right about this game. Like I wrote before, we share the same opinion, except that my more forgiving definition of mediocre matches his less forgiving definition of shit.

 

[Cassidy]

Did I mention how that clipping minigame almost made me throw the screen out of the window once?

 

[Cassidy]

Jews are like reverse Midas: every media they touch becomes shit. I'm not making this up. Just watch and see.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Yup. I really love how nobody bothers to bump this thread into the next page, and you have to resort to trying-too-hardism and trollbait.

 

[Cassidy]

Museum vs. Biatch. Which is Better and Why?

Mina asks about a password for a DV server. Nothing really relevant to the plot, for now, and forever, considering how this game has a severe division between gameplay and plot.

Shaheed tells Thorton something he already knows. Great consequence for the choices he made. Now time to go to that Museum and stop Marburg.

Oh shit.

Thorton arrives at the Museum.

Another area where stealth without retarded abilities is impossible. Time to pop more moles.

Where is that goon's head going?

This is a good briefing of the average experience in this mission.

All clear, time to do minigames and loot.

Goons don't have the same rights to fuck the biatch like Bro Shepard does.

In yet another linear corridor...

Except for one door with loot behind.

Fact: I can't bother transcribing the dialogues right now. Besides there is nothing special about them anyway. Mina says it's a slow day, but there are still lots of people inside.

The Museum security has been helplessly slaughtered.

Time is running out as Thorton moves upstairs.

Mina tells him there is a shootout and the Museum security is being slaughtered by Desu Vult goons. If he wants to prove himself a BRO and save at least one of them, he better hury.

Once the shootout ended, only one of the guards managed to barely survive. Around the place, more things to loot and information to check.

The plans. Also, what sort of smart person would leave a laptop with such sensitive information right there, in the open? Anyway, this isn't good. Dozens of lives are at stake right now.

Marburg begins to talk through the Museum speakers. He makes a very serious affirmation: Thorton will have to choose between Madison's life at the west wing and the life of dozens of unknown innocents(or perhaps not) visiting the east wing.

But before making any decision, there is one more place to loot.

And thus.

Museum vs. Biatch, which is better and why? DISCUSS!!!

 

[Cassidy]

Yup. I am butthurt about you speaking against Avellone's work.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Good sir, I am not butthurt in the least, but this angry response on your side would suggest similar conclusions as those in your claim

 

[Cassidy]

Good sir, I am not butthurt in the least

What proof do you bring? Your comment about the inane bumps I did? If anything, it points itself as a probable evidence against your affirmation.