Mannan in KotOR - The Lawyer's Planet

[Lesifoere]

Except Bastila and Kreia are very different archetypes. Oh, that and Bastila is a thinly written, emotionally needy Bioware cliche and Kreia isn't.

Keria's a much shittier character than Bastilla. Sometimes thinly written is better written if the alternative is having Kreia make you want to drill out your brains. The only thing Obshitian did right with her was to make her the final boss so I could kill the hideous wretch.

You're into videogame girlfriends, aren't you. Sorry dude, but not everyone looks upon fictional women as potential wives.

 

[Mastermind]

You're into videogame girlfriends, aren't you. Sorry dude, but not everyone looks upon fictional women as potential wives.

Not really (except Aerie from BG2 ).

I just hate Kreia. Actually the entire cast of KOTOR2 was shitty with the exception of the recurring characters from 1 (canderous, HK, the r2 ripoff)

 

[Volourn]

"I think the introduction and importance of Kreia in the sequel is enough to keep TSL from being a simple "rehash." Thematically they're different anyways. The second one focuses much more on the concept of betrayal."

The first one was focused on betrayal as well. Dumbass.


Kreia was an above average character, but overrated. She also was evil. Pure simple evil. One of the most black and white characters I ever did see. "The force is evil It must be destroyed! herp derp!"

That was her response for everything. Herp derp force is evil herp derp force is evil herp derp force is evil her derp.


Hell, she was so telegraphed so bad I knew she was evil from the moment I met her, and knew I'd be killing the bithc ASAP. And, the most retarto thing is I swas forced to travel with these evil black and white bag of bones.

LMAO

KOTOR2 is one of the black and white games I have ever played. Fun game, but overrated.

Avellone's better sticking with FO2 (his best work), and PST ( fantastic).

 

[Turjan]

Kreia was an above average character, but overrated. She also was evil. Pure simple evil. One of the most black and white characters I ever did see. "The force is evil It must be destroyed! herp derp!"

That was her response for everything.

Kotor 2 was pretty good at pretending it was very deep. The actual answers that you got were, in the end, very simple and did not really stand up to scrutiny very well. Kreia exemplifies this development.

I sometimes have the feeling that the developers did not know how to bring all the loose ends of the game to a dignified ending and thus just scrapped the whole stuff and replaced it with a simple fighting sequence.

Nevertheless, the game induces an odd fascination in me. It's one of the few games I played several times, despite its shortcomings.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

Kreia was an above average character, but overrated. She also was evil. Pure simple evil. One of the most black and white characters I ever did see. "The force is evil It must be destroyed! herp derp!"

So, lovely princess. Tell me then. What is morally grey?

If I may use the same argument I couldn't imagine a situation that I couldn't trivalize with "herpderp"

 

[Mangoose]

Why is wanting to destroy the Force evil, anyway? And before you say it, there is definite proof that life can exist with the Force - namely, the Exile. Then, removing access to the Force is not evil, either, as both the Light and the Dark sides are destroyed.

 

[racofer]

Kotor 2 was pretty good at pretending it was very deep.

Butthurt Biowhore detected.

 

[Lesifoere]

Why is wanting to destroy the Force evil, anyway? And before you say it, there is definite proof that life can exist with the Force - namely, the Exile. Then, removing access to the Force is not evil, either, as both the Light and the Dark sides are destroyed.

In the EU, there's a bunch of crap that exist without the Force too--some monkeys that make the force go away (yeah really, derp time) and the Yuuzhan Vong (or however that shit's spelled).

 

[Mangoose]

Why is wanting to destroy the Force evil, anyway? And before you say it, there is definite proof that life can exist with the Force - namely, the Exile. Then, removing access to the Force is not evil, either, as both the Light and the Dark sides are destroyed.

In the EU, there's a bunch of crap that exist without the Force too--some monkeys that make the force go away (yeah really, derp time) and the Yuuzhan Vong (or however that shit's spelled).

Yep. Anyways, neither Kreia's intent nor its resultant consequence would have caused physical or mental harm to anyone. At worst you've got a bunch of depressed Jedi and Sith. Is it right to take away those powers? Well.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Why is wanting to destroy the Force evil, anyway? And before you say it, there is definite proof that life can exist with the Force - namely, the Exile. Then, removing access to the Force is not evil, either, as both the Light and the Dark sides are destroyed.

In the EU, there's a bunch of crap that exist without the Force too--some monkeys that make the force go away (yeah really, derp time) and the Yuuzhan Vong (or however that shit's spelled).

Yep. Anyways, neither Kreia's intent nor its resultant consequence would have caused physical or mental harm to anyone. At worst you've got a bunch of depressed Jedi and Sith. Is it right to take away those powers? Well.

And give free will to everyone? Hell yes.

Remember, one of the biggest things Avellone had against the Force was that "there are no coincidences, there is only the Force."

 

[Turjan]

Kotor 2 was pretty good at pretending it was very deep.

Butthurt Biowhore detected.

Butthurt Obshitian junkie detected.

If I had mentioned Bioware as a positive counterexample, you might have had a point. But I haven't. Your selective reading of what I wrote says more about you in this regard than it does about me.

Just because Kreia differs from the usual cookie cutter good jedi/evil sith stereotype doesn't make her character deep. She is just a vehicle for a very simple statement.

 

[racofer]

Kotor 2 was pretty good at pretending it was very deep.

Butthurt Biowhore detected.

Butthurt Obshitian junkie detected.

 

[deuxhero]

Kreia wanted to kill the force+Kreia is Avellone+the EU (and the first game) use "the force wills it" as code for "I'm a bad wirter"=Avellone wants to kill bad writers.

 

[Kz3r0]

Kotor 2 was pretty good at pretending it was very deep.

Butthurt Biowhore detected.

Butthurt Obshitian junkie detected.

If I had mentioned Bioware as a positive counterexample, you might have had a point. But I haven't. Your selective reading of what I wrote says more about you in this regard than it does about me.

Just because Kreia differs from the usual cookie cutter good jedi/evil sith stereotype doesn't make her character deep. She is just a vehicle for a very simple statement.

Bullshit, Kreia has the flaws of a human being, and this puts her above all the existing videogame characters.
Also, Volourn opinion is a pretty good indicator of how complex her character is.

 

[Kz3r0]

Nevertheless, the game induces an odd fascination in me. It's one of the few games I played several times, despite its shortcomings.

Seven perchance?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Just because Kreia differs from the usual cookie cutter good jedi/evil sith stereotype doesn't make her character deep. She is just a vehicle for a very simple statement.

Except...

For one thing, a lot of her is left for the player to conclude out for himself, such as whether or not she is Brianna's mother and the exiled Jedi Master.

Another thing that sets her apart is that unlike 90% of antagonists in fiction, a large portion of her motivation comes from her love (type of which is largely left ambiguous, again) for the Exile. All her actions are on some level directed towards guiding the Exile to become her greatest student, and for him to make the choice to extinguish the Force.

She also admits that she is living a contradiction, that she is forced to use the very thing she hates because without it she is just a frail old woman. And thus like always before in her life, the Force again controls her moves, and she hates it for that. But, there are times when it is spoken of in reverence, such as when Brianna asks the Exile what is it like to feel the Force.

She also gives perhaps the most valid mentor lessons in any game, for what she says is often very intelligent and insightful. And most of all, she always tells you that her views are not the absolutely correct ones, but that you must consider and decide for yourself. All she asks of the Exile is to respect her and listen to what she thinks.

And of course, there's the final confrontation with the Jedi Council, where she pretty much entirely destroys the pedastal the Jedi stand on as infallible and wise heroes.


PS: newfag, racofer is anything except an Obshitian fanboy. The guy hates on fucking New Vegas!

 

[Kz3r0]

And of course, there's the final confrontation with the Jedi Council, where she pretty much entirely destroys the pedastal the Jedi stand on as infallible and wise heroes.
!

The funny thing about Star Wars is that Jedi masters always come about as clueless morons which actions require convoluted explanations, I don't know why, maybe writers can't come up with credible all encompassing sages, aside the usual stereotypes, or maybe if Jedi were really all that wise the galaxy wouldn't have been in a state of costant war for centuries, and we all know that you can't make movies out of peace.

 

[Turjan]

PS: newfag, racofer is anything except an Obshitian fanboy. The guy hates on fucking New Vegas!

:D

 

[Turjan]

And of course, there's the final confrontation with the Jedi Council, where she pretty much entirely destroys the pedastal the Jedi stand on as infallible and wise heroes.
!

The funny thing about Star Wars is that Jedi masters always come about as clueless morons which actions require convoluted explanations, I don't know why, maybe writers can't come up with credible all encompassing sages, aside the usual stereotypes, or maybe if Jedi were really all that wise the galaxy wouldn't have been in a state of costant war for centuries, and we all know that you can't make movies out of peace.

I guess the whole thing with the force has been completely fucked up, anyway, and not only since the EU gave it the death knell. This "hole in the force" thing makes as much sense as those Yuuzhan Vong.

As the foundation lacks any logic, the writers who have to build on that foundation are somehow automatically destined to failure.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

And of course, there's the final confrontation with the Jedi Council, where she pretty much entirely destroys the pedastal the Jedi stand on as infallible and wise heroes.
!

The funny thing about Star Wars is that Jedi masters always come about as clueless morons which actions require convoluted explanations, I don't know why, maybe writers can't come up with credible all encompassing sages, aside the usual stereotypes, or maybe if Jedi were really all that wise the galaxy wouldn't have been in a state of costant war for centuries, and we all know that you can't make movies out of peace.

I guess the whole thing with the force has been completely fucked up, anyway, and not only since the EU gave it the death knell. This "hole in the force" thing makes as much sense as those Yuuzhan Vong.

As the foundation lacks any logic, the writers who have to build on that foundation are somehow automatically destined to failure.

No, it's that there was a world of difference between Yoda and Obi-Wan and what followed.

 

[Volourn]

"Why is wanting to destroy the Force evil, anyway? And before you say it, there is definite proof that life can exist with the Force - namely, the Exile. Then, removing access to the Force is not evil, either, as both the Light and the Dark sides are destroyed."

To destroy something for the sake of it is evil. The force is not evil. It's the same fuckin' bullshit people use tod estroy guns. Guns do not kill people. People do. The force does not cause harm, the people who use force do. People still have free will.

Kreia is simple minded, she is not that intelligent. If she was so intelligent she wouldn't have come across as evil and untrustworthy right from the start.

She does not love the Exile. She loathes theExile. She uses him to try to accomplish her goals. That is the very defintion of evil. And, is not the defintion of love. She is not human, and has no human quality outside of hubris, and bullshit. She is pseudo pyschology when it comes to her 'wrods of wisdom' that come across as shit.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

"Why is wanting to destroy the Force evil, anyway? And before you say it, there is definite proof that life can exist with the Force - namely, the Exile. Then, removing access to the Force is not evil, either, as both the Light and the Dark sides are destroyed."

To destroy something for the sake of it is evil. The force is not evil. It's the same fuckin' bullshit people use tod estroy guns. Guns do not kill people. People do. The force does not cause harm, the people who use force do. People still have free will.

Kreia is simple minded, she is not that intelligent. If she was so intelligent she wouldn't have come across as evil and untrustworthy right from the start.

She does not love the Exile. She loathes theExile. She uses him to try to accomplish her goals. That is the very defintion of evil. And, is not the defintion of love. She is not human, and has no human quality outside of hubris, and bullshit. She is pseudo pyschology when it comes to her 'wrods of wisdom' that come across as shit.

Yeaaah, your argument is she is evil because she VIEWS something as evil and because she manipulates?

Yeah, I'm not so sure you get what grey means?

Here's a tip.

It's a mix between good and evil. Under a certain viewpoint you can break down everything to good and evil and the reverse. Which is exactly what you do. Call it pseudo or what you want. In the end your just twisting words to get her to be a one sided charachter in your mind.

 

[Volourn]

She *is* a one sided chaarcter. There is no grey. She isn't complex. She isn't deep. She's more shallow than a 2 year old child.

 

[Multiple Sarcasm]

Hate on Volly all you like, but he's right on this one: Kreia is p. one-sided in her butthurt about the Force and ridiculous in her "justifications" (a crutch for users; users are a menace; no free will - what a load of horseshit wrapped in philosoraptory). Which makes her textbook 'evil', with the only difference from cliche being that she voices her butthurt - however nonsensical it may be - instead of just mwahaha-ing it all the way.
Take away all the pathetic wannabe-cryptic 101 - old age, blindness, hiding eyes under a hood and oooh-ing voice - and there's nothing left to the character or whatever credibility you may have imagined - to 'wisdom' it pulls out of its ass.
Just because KotOR2 tried to break the SW's stale black and white, doesn't mean it succeeded in creating anything coherent beyond a self-inflicted mindfuck for the gullible Obsidian/Avellone fans. Enjoy.

 

[Mangoose]

To destroy something for the sake of it is evil. The force is not evil. It's the same fuckin' bullshit people use tod estroy guns. Guns do not kill people. People do. The force does not cause harm, the people who use force do. People still have free will.

Moron. Wanting to destroy something, some inanimate and non-sentient object, is not evil.

And comparing the Force to guns. Let me know when guns actively seduce you to the Dark Side.

LOlolllol fucking roofles, faggot.

Hate on Volly all you like, but he's right on this one: Kreia is p. one-sided in her butthurt about the Force and ridiculous in her "justifications" (a crutch for users; users are a menace; no free will - what a load of horseshit wrapped in philosoraptory). Which makes her textbook 'evil',

I don't understand. She is one-sided in her view of the Force, yes... but how does that make her evil? The Force is neither good nor evil, since it benefits both the Jedi and the Sith. And again, people can live fine without the Force. So how is getting rid of the Force evil? It's like saying atheism is evil. Wtf?