Next step after DnD

[Sam Ecorners]

Been playing 5e for about 6 months now, first as a player, now as a DM. I'm getting to the point where I'm getting interested in other PnP games. So what's a good logical move from DnD? I'd prefer to move away from fantasy.

 

[Havoc]

Vampire. Fuck Requiem.

 

[Night Goat]

I've been reading the books for Eclipse Phase, haven't really looked at the mechanics yet but the setting is amazing. It's all under a Creative Commons license, you can find the PDFs here:
http://robboyle.wordpress.com/eclipse-phase-pdfs

 

[Telengard]

Been playing 5e for about 6 months now, first as a player, now as a DM. I'm getting to the point where I'm getting interested in other PnP games. So what's a good logical move from DnD? I'd prefer to move away from fantasy.

That is a complex and very difficult question to answer on scant information. Moving away from D&D is hard, because it's what everyone and their mother knows. It's the crutch that never seems to break. Finding another game that you can organize an entire group around and keep them coming is a pain in the butt like you wouldn't believe. That is, unless you live near one of the major metropolises, and can pull from a large body of people. If you're lucky, and your entire group likes to experiment with different games, and no one in the group is hemmed in about genre, I bow to you as you are a god among men.

Generally speaking, the only games you are likely to find (outside of those metropolises) are Vampire and Rogue Trader. Occasionally, they'll be a flash in the pan, like Deadlands, which you can get a group for, but that's time-sensitive and locale-sensitive. Pulling your own group into a rules-heavy game can be painful, too, as learning an entire new set of nit-picky rules can be like an anchor on some people's enjoyment, generally of which you'll have at least one in your group. Probably two. Which is one of the reasons Vampire is often the goto. Because it's bloody simple. And not in a good way, unless your group is all about acting and story. Star Wars and Star Trek are often easy pulls, but none of the many game systems with those brands has ever had any lasting appeal, and the GM gets way hemmed in by the Established Universe.

My picks:

1. RECON is the best way to transition out of both D&D and fantasy. It's got fast character generation under a markedly different generation system, it's military, and it's historical. Breaks all the D&D habits all at once, which is the best way to go to get it out of your system. But getting people to play a game without spells or lightsabers is a real chore. Many will find it surprisingly enjoyable if you can get them there, but you have to drag them kicking and screaming to get there.
2. With the revival of Shadowrun video games, you can probably scrape together enough interest in the pnp games. It's not really enough of a break with fantasy, though, making it far too easy for people to end up relaxing back into old habits.
3. The superhero pnp games are easy to garner interest in, but horrible to sustain that interest, since superheroes make for horrible pnp adventures. Except for the funnies, that is. If you want to do a comedy adventure, and you have the right group for it, it makes a great break from D&D. Since it's comedy, it doesn't matter what rules you use. But the short-lived one from White Wolf (makers of Vampire) is probably the easiest to learn.
4. Star Trek is better than Star Wars for pnp, since there's nothing really to do in the Star Wars universe. And for Star Trek, I prefer the old FASA rules, and by a huge amount. But YMMV.

I have a huge collection of indie RPG games, but have very rarely managed to get a group built around one of them, much less sustained that group. Best luck had (for non-fantasy) amongst these indies are Deadlands (lots of fantasy elements, not indie but died an indie death), Ringworld (yes, based on the Larry Niven books), Skyrealms of Jorune (cross-over fantasy/scifi), and Infinite Futures (Pathfinder in spaaace).

 

[clemens]

I second Eclipse Phase, probably one of the most accomplished sf games of these last few years.

Also, Ars Magica. All the wealth of an historical Europe where myth is real, instead of shitty fantasy pantheons, a great magic system, a covenant for the players to manage, be proactive and come up with their own stories. Be prepared to be flexible as a gm and to improvise.

If you want to keep some kind of D&D feel (lots of action, straight to the point) to ease your players into something different, Shadowrun can be a lot of fun too. Plus there are interesting chunks here and there in the sourcebooks and metaplot. Vampire is indeed a great way to move away from the D&D style, as is Chthulhu.

 

[Sam Ecorners]

life sucks when you don't live in a major kwan city

Guess what, I do live in a major kwan city, so that's not an issue. I'm also not interested in moving away from DnD, I'm interested in expanding to other games.

That said, I have had my eye on Shadowrun for a while, how is the current edition of it?

Ok, so I have a list of things that are interesting:

1. Shadowrun
2. Vampire
2. Eclipse Phase
3. Call of Cthulhu
4. RECON (couldn't find it online, is it same thing as MERCS?)

Which ones would have good prewritten adventures available? I was thinking about offering my DnD group an extra session monthly to try some of these out, so I'd rather not deal with writing my own adventures. I heard Splintered State for Shadowrun is good, anything else like that?

 

[Havoc]

The question is, how much rules are you willing to read through? Because Shadowrun is a crunch system with a lot of rules, while having a great setting. Vampire isn't rule heavy. Eclipse Phase is kinda rule heavy, but not that much, also great setting. Call of Cthulhu, I didn't have the honor to play, but it's d100 so it's not that hard. RECON i don't know.

About prewritten adventures. Vampire has some, but they are pretty railroaded. The newer ones (closer to 2001) are less railroaded. Eclipse Phase and Shadowrun have a lot of free adventures. Call of Cthulhu, you don't need anything prewritten - people die, the end.

 

[Scroo]

Eclipse Phase is quite good and very philosophical. It provides some really interesting RP when your character knows that his mind is stored somewhere else. But is it really the same person? Or is it a copy and death is still final since the current consciousness is wiped out?

It has some really fun prewritten adventures, no campaigns tho.

 

[Space Insect]

Call of Cthulhu has some pretty good prewritten adventures, I believe. I think Masks of Nyarlathotep was probably the best one published for it.

 

[Sam Ecorners]

The question is, how much rules are you willing to read through? Because Shadowrun is a crunch system with a lot of rules, while having a great setting. Vampire isn't rule heavy. Eclipse Phase is kinda rule heavy, but not that much, also great setting. Call of Cthulhu, I didn't have the honor to play, but it's d100 so it's not that hard. RECON i don't know.

About prewritten adventures. Vampire has some, but they are pretty railroaded. The newer ones (closer to 2001) are less railroaded. Eclipse Phase and Shadowrun have a lot of free adventures. Call of Cthulhu, you don't need anything prewritten - people die, the end.

I don't mind reading through rules. I also like having physical books to put on a shelf. So I think I'll start with Shadowrun, Vampire, Chulhu and Eclipse Phase. Which versions for the first 3? Is Shadowrun 5e decent? Do I need to get any special dice for any of these?

 

[Havoc]

Vampire the Masquerade 20th Anniversary is a must. I would suggest reading other books for more fluff, since the book tried to be the most agnostic about the metaplot.

I had a blast with Shadowrun 5e, but I already heard that it's not that good compared to previous versions.

 

[Dustin DePenning]

there are two extremes that can tickle your brain after DND:

Apocalypse world (totally different and open ended)

Burning wheel (so complicate it makes DND look like candy land)

Both are genius games IMO. for different reasons.

 

[Telengard]

I agree with everything Havoc just said. But then, Shadowrun this far outside of the punk movement will never be 'right'. But if that's the only version you can find in your stores, and you don't want a used one, you won't go wrong.

4. RECON (couldn't find it online, is it same thing as MERCS?)

RECON is a game very nearly as old as D&D that was bought out by Palladium (they of Rifts and Robotech), who reformatted and re-released it as RECON: Advanced Warfighter. There's been a couple of editions since, including the ubiquitous Deluxe Revised RECON. There were some scenario packs as well. But if you ever do it, there's no real need for them your first time out. In fact, it's better to do something real simple first time. Because a fantasy group entering into RECON is so far out of its element, it's like they're in one of the really oddball Planescape realms where up is down and in is out, and yet at the same time the world is really real. For many fantasy gamers, it's like a reverse Alice in Wonderland.

So instead, something like a regular recon run: get ambushed, disable some traps, find a village, learn to use the radio properly to call in air support, burn the village to the ground, say some racist comments, then head back for base, and finally get balled out by your boss for some protocol issue. With the only treasure being a cheap Chinese pistol and some rice balls. Throw in some 60s and 70s war protest songs for ambience, and you have yourself a complete night. And everyone will really know if they want to go on after it.

http://palladium-store.com/1001/product/600-The-Deluxe-Revised-RECON.html

 

[Alchemist]

Which versions for the first 3?

Call of Cthulhu's latest edition is 7th but it's not widely available yet (mostly only to Kickstarter backers and pre-orders so far). 6th edition works fine, if you don't mind not having the latest changes.

As for pre-written Call of Cthulhu - Beyond the Mountains of Madness is great. Played in a campaign of that and it was among the best RPG experiences of my life.

Masks of Nyarlathotep (previously mentioned) is also widely regarded as one of the best campaigns (for any RPG). Haven't played in that one but my friend who is an alpha-GM / RPG nerd speaks very highly of it.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Runequest. King of Dragon Pass compels you!

 

[Alex]

Nothing, stay with D&D. Or better yet, start playing the older editions.

 

[catfood]

Nothing like some Call of Cthulhu to breathe new life into a group that is used to playing as demi-gods.

 

[Darth Roxor]

If you want to be a real man, your next, and last, step can only be Paranoia.

 

[Quigs]

I'm going to suggest to stay away from Eclipse Phase. Interesting universe, horrible game engine. (Speaking as a GM of it for years and an on and off player).

I'd recommend Shadowrun (Any edition but first), Vampire (The newer stuff), Pendragon (If Arthur or consistent roleplaying appeal to you) Fiasco (If you want to RP a Cohen Bros movie), the FFG Star Wars, Mechwarrior 2nd or 3rd edition, Nights Black Agents, and if you can find someone to teach it to you, GURPS.

The only non-joke RP (ala FATAL) I'd say to never play is Cthulhutech.

 

[nikolokolus]

I'm a big fan of d100/BRP/Call of Cthulhu games. Simple, intuitive mechanics that can be as fiddly or streamlined as you wish. I'm itching to play Delta Green after backing the kickstarter. Sort of X-files meets CoC from what I can tell so far.

 

[Xathrodox86]

Vampire. Fuck Requiem.

So much yes.

 

[Hupu]

It's a niche recommendation and it's been years and years since I DM'd, but Fading Suns is great if you have a group with varied interests. It's a very flexible mechanics- and world-wise both, you can put everything spanning from space-operas, cyberpunk runs to court intrigue in vein of Vampire.
The closest comparison is Dune, it's a sci-fi with a little bit of a Byzantine angle, some 40k even, but not as turned up to 11. It's got everything for everybody so you can dip your toes in a variety of scenarios and see what sticks.

 

[Mangoose]

How does Dark Heresy compare to Rogue Trader?

 

[udm]

13th Age for that high-powered, heroic fantasy kick. At times feels very much like an ARPG with heavy narrative elements.
Atomic Highway for post-apocalyptic needs. <3 its vehicular combat; it's really good.
Savage Worlds and Interface Zero 2.0 if you want a fast-paced, easily modifiable cyberpunk game. There's a Pathfinder version of IZ 2.0 but I haven't played/read it yet.
Vampire the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition for political intrigue and dark, gothic setting. GMed this for the first time yesterday, didn't like the fiddly dice pools of the Storyteller system at first but it slowly grew on me. It was fast and fluid and worked well with the setting. Dem dice pools tho.
Never played Chaosium's games before, only read through CoC, but I sorta like DwD's spinoffs of the d100 system. There are 2 games they released, a fantasy one called Barebones Fantasy and a modern espionage one called Covert Ops. Barebones is 'k, but Covert Ops is highly modular and can be as crunchy as one wants.
OSR/0e/BECMI for more straightforward hacking and slashing.
Speaking of OSR, anything released by Kevin Crawford. That includes Silent Legions and especially Stars Without Number.
Mythic RPG, if only for the GM Emulator.
Dread for horror one-shots.
Risus for playing anything, anywhere.

 

[Xathrodox86]

How does Dark Heresy compare to Rogue Trader?

Dark Heresy is you being an Inquisitor's bitch. Rogue Trader is you being a rich Rogue Trader... or his bitch, which is still better than the former option.

DH is supposed to be an investigation-like kind of game. Usually it ends in a massive shootout and praying to God-Emperor that you handler won't terminate you for being a retard.

Rogue Trader is a much more free spirited game. You can employ Xenos, visit other worlds outside of Imperium's margin and have awesome toys to play with. It's also much more economic in it's gameplay, especially in later stages of the game.

For a start I suggest that you try DH. Just remember one thing: don't touch the fucking 2nd edition. It's utter shit and should be burnt on a stake. 1st edition ain't perfect, but it's a goddamn Oscar-worthy material, when compared to 2nd.