Old-school dungeon crawls - post your favourite, and why!

[Saxon1974]

If I recall correctly, most statistic increases are temporary (e.g. they remain only until you rest). Some are permanent... but you'll find that a lot of stuff about your characters will change as you play the game: alignment, age, gender, stats, etc.... It's a bit disconcerting at first ("Holy crap! My good male knight is now a neutral female!"), but it's kind of interesting as the game goes on.

I will keep my eye on whether resting is the cause or not, seems like none of the ones in the dungeons have been permanent which seems a bit odd though. Thanks.

 

[Saxon1974]

Was gonna play MMIII on the amiga emulator when I finish MM2.

The only files I have found to download for the amiga files say that FD-HD is required

I think its a High Density Floppy disk? No idea how to get that to work using an emulator. Anyone know of a version for amiga that works without needing that?

 

[Saxon1974]

Anyone play Times of Lore by Origin? It's a nice light RPG, I remember liking it as a kid and have it in my collection. Just tried loading up the AMiga version but the mouse doesn't work.

Anyone know how to get the mouse to work? Dont wanna have to play it on the keyboard. Im using the winuae with lemon, and using the amiga version 1200.

I believe the start up screen asks if you have a mouse or joystick in the IBM version, but the amiga version doesn't so im wondering if there is a way to configure the mouse.

 

[Saxon1974]

Anyone play Times of Lore by Origin? It's a nice light RPG, I remember liking it as a kid and have it in my collection. Just tried loading up the AMiga version but the mouse doesn't work.

Anyone know how to get the mouse to work? Dont wanna have to play it on the keyboard. Im using the winuae with lemon, and using the amiga version 1200.

I believe the start up screen asks if you have a mouse or joystick in the IBM version, but the amiga version doesn't so im wondering if there is a way to configure the mouse.

Ok, the mouse does work if you swap the input devices between keyboard and mouse, but all of the versions i have found for download crash is start a new game. Oh well guess I have to play the DOs version.

 

[Saxon1974]

Anyone play Times of Lore by Origin? It's a nice light RPG, I remember liking it as a kid and have it in my collection. Just tried loading up the AMiga version but the mouse doesn't work.

Anyone know how to get the mouse to work? Dont wanna have to play it on the keyboard. Im using the winuae with lemon, and using the amiga version 1200.

I believe the start up screen asks if you have a mouse or joystick in the IBM version, but the amiga version doesn't so im wondering if there is a way to configure the mouse.

Ok, the mouse does work if you swap the input devices between keyboard and mouse, but all of the versions i have found for download crash is start a new game. Oh well guess I have to play the DOs version.

I tried a few more things and found this page with some winuae compatibility files but it didn't work. If you load the game and resume a prior game it works, but if you start a new game with a new character it doesnt work. If there is a Winuae expert on here and you have any advice I would appreciate it.

http://amiga.emucamp.com/timesoflore.htm

 

[Andhaira]

Dude just replay eschalon

 

[Saxon1974]

Dude just replay eschalon

I have been on and off, I can't wait for the next game. (Which I think sounds like it might happen from what I hear)

 

[Saxon1974]

Wow, don't know why I liked Times of Lore as a kid, this game is horrible. I like exploring around in a fantasy world, but my god didn't remember this game has real time crappy combat and there are no stats or improvements that you can make to your character other than finding weapons and armor. It's an arcade game plunked down in a fanstay RPG looking world.

Im back to MM2 now.

 

[Saxon1974]

Eventually burned out on MM2, as great as it is I just dont have the time to finish it.

Went back to playing MM3 again, although I started a new game.

How does everyone think MM3 compares to MM4 and MM5?

I dont know why but for some reason the blue walls in the city bothers me, just doesn't feel right....and not a big fan of some of the screens that look like sci fi instead of fantasy. I realize this is the same in 4 and 5 as well though.

Should I play MM4 and skip 3?

Anyone think 3 is better than 4 or vice versa?

It doesn't appear the story lines are that closely related that it would matter if I skipped 3.

 

[mondblut]

How does everyone think MM3 compares to MM4 and MM5?

Well, it is harder, looks uglier, and allows to hire up to 2 NPCs in addition to 6-char party.

Exploitable a bit more too. It had "enchant item" spell which WoX didn't have, IIRC. Although since there are so many modifiers, chances to get something good were slim at best.

Should I play MM4 and skip 3? Anyone think 3 is better than 4 or vice versa?
It doesn't appear the story lines are that closely related that it would matter if I skipped 3.

WoX is a more of a "fairytale" fare, MM3 is more "hardcore". Quicksand spots that instakill 2 characters, teleport mazes where saving is forbidden and automap is disabled, crucial events accessible one day in year, that kind of thing.

I don't think you lose anything playing both. Other than your time, that is.

Storyline is a *little* related, in a grim kind of way. I guess they originally planned to have character transfer from 3 to 4, but then realized that wouldn't work... hence, another sea of lava, hohoho.

 

[Saxon1974]

How does everyone think MM3 compares to MM4 and MM5?

Well, it is harder, looks uglier, and allows to hire up to 2 NPCs in addition to 6-char party.

Exploitable a bit more too. It had "enchant item" spell which WoX didn't have, IIRC. Although since there are so many modifiers, chances to get something good were slim at best.

Should I play MM4 and skip 3? Anyone think 3 is better than 4 or vice versa?
It doesn't appear the story lines are that closely related that it would matter if I skipped 3.

WoX is a more of a "fairytale" fare, MM3 is more "hardcore". Quicksand spots that instakill 2 characters, teleport mazes where saving is forbidden and automap is disabled, crucial events accessible one day in year, that kind of thing.

I don't think you lose anything playing both. Other than your time, that is.

Storyline is a *little* related, in a grim kind of way. I guess they originally planned to have character transfer from 3 to 4, but then realized that wouldn't work... hence, another sea of lava, hohoho.

Cool thanks Mondblut, I tend to like things more hardcore so I think Im gonna play MM3 first then as I already started even though I dont like some of the graphics.

 

[Jasede]

MM3 is MASSIVE.
I actually stopped playing 2 and 3 for lack of time. Games back then were fucking huge. Awesome.

 

[Saxon1974]

MM3 is MASSIVE.
I actually stopped playing 2 and 3 for lack of time. Games back then were fucking huge. Awesome.

Boy that sure it true, I really wanted to finish MMII but man I think I put in like 60 to 80 hours and realize I still had a long way to go so I just had to admit I couldn't ever finish it unless I got fired from my job.

It kind of bugs me each time I start and dont finish an RPG, but then again I think my completion % is somewhere around 30% mostly because I dont have tons of free time.

I agree though, I love the huge games of old even if I didnt finish them.

Just curious Jasede, do you prefer MM3 or 4\5?

Im of the fence about which one I want to play.

I have that problem alot now, I have a large collection of old RPG's, so many that I find myself having a hard time deciding which one to play.

 

[Jasede]

I have trouble deciding that. I didn't play 3 much, but all this old-game bullshit - instant death, stuff happening only at certain times of the year, hard to get and hard to guess passwords - it's really, really appealing for some reason. And the Super Nintendo version even looks pretty good!

But 4&5 is a league of its own. You have to know there's many games I haven't actually finished - for example M&M 2 and 3 and 4&5. I only have the impressions. But 4&5 seems like all I ever hoped for in an RPG - complete with clunky interface! And it's gigantic! I can't wait to explore the game fully the first time next year, when I have some time.

 

[Saxon1974]

I have trouble deciding that. I didn't play 3 much, but all this old-game bullshit - instant death, stuff happening only at certain times of the year, hard to get and hard to guess passwords - it's really, really appealing for some reason. And the Super Nintendo version even looks pretty good!

But 4&5 is a league of its own. You have to know there's many games I haven't actually finished - for example M&M 2 and 3 and 4&5. I only have the impressions. But 4&5 seems like all I ever hoped for in an RPG - complete with clunky interface! And it's gigantic! I can't wait to explore the game fully the first time next year, when I have some time.

I like your gaming opinions Jasede, you should make your own game, I think I would like it

I tried making my own once (I work in computers and have done some programming) but I realized quickly I just didnt have the time to get very far).

I have original copies of all 3 games with manuals, maps and all. The three of them sitting on myself have been calling out for me to play them so i just couldnt resist anymore.

If your gonna play MM3 get the CD version as the music is much better than the older versions.

 

[fastpunk]

OK, Jasede, if there's one dungeon crawler you'd consider essential, a must play, which one would it be? Just one, the best of the best.

 

[Saxon1974]

OK, Jasede, if there's one dungeon crawler you'd consider essential, a must play, which one would it be? Just one, the best of the best.

My bet is on ROA Star Trail.

 

[Wyrmlord]

But 4&5 seems like all I ever hoped for in an RPG - complete with clunky interface! And it's gigantic! I can't wait to explore the game fully the first time next year, when I have some time.

Clunky interface? It has one of the best interfaces I have seen. Mainly because of the well-defined hotketys, with which you speedily do any task. If one goes through the effort of clicking everything, then yeah, it will be a difficult experience.

But things like casting a spell, it's just pressing C-N-4-C, if say the spell is assigned the number 4. It's quicker than the spellcasting in, say, Torment or NWN.

 

[FrancoTAU]

OK, Jasede, if there's one dungeon crawler you'd consider essential, a must play, which one would it be? Just one, the best of the best.

My bet is on ROA Star Trail.

My bet in on Wizardry 8. He gets his RPG and his furry fix all in one.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

OK, Jasede, if there's one dungeon crawler you'd consider essential, a must play, which one would it be? Just one, the best of the best.

My bet is on ROA Star Trail.

My bet in on Wizardry 8. He gets his RPG and his furry fix all in one.

My bet's on that too because I typically have a poor to lukewarm reaction to dungeon crawlers and didn't mind one of the middle Wizardry games (can't remember which one), and heard 8 was pretty much the definitive Wizardry.

 

[Saxon1974]

Well I was gonna play Clouds of Xeen first and then play Darkside but I cant find the clouds of xeen game anywhere. I thought I heard someone mention its better to play them seperate for some reason, oh well....

I have the CD version of world of xeen, great music in this game, or at least in the beginning.

 

[jaylittle]

That's easy. Pool of Radiance - MS/DOS version. This was my first RPG ever. I never beat it as a kid (and never even came close), but once I endeavored to begin replaying Gold Box games from my childhood a few years back, I've beaten it at least half a dozen times. My second favorite was Curse of the Azure Bonds. This was likely because I found it easy to advance in the story as a kid as your characters started off at Level 5 rather than at Level 1 were the wind blowing in an unexpected direction can result in a TPW. Of course after playing lots of RPGs, I now have a good feel for the old school tip toeing that is required to ascertain where I should keep my low level characters unless I wish to get them killed.

It's funny as a kid Curse was the better game because it was easier and because the story seemed more compelling at the time. Nowadays I believe Pool of Radiance is the better game, but Curse is still special. Pools of Darkness rules the entire series whereas Secret of the Silver blades is practically a necessary evil if you want to properly import your characters across every game.

Actually out of all the Forgotten Realm Gold Box games, Secret of the Silver Blades is probably the most old school of them all. It's linear and contains lots and lots of dungeon crawling. It doesn't have a huge amount of plot to get in the way. Sadly it has the easiest final battle of any of the games in that series. However parts of that game were very very difficult. Though I still have not to this day managed to beat the final battle in Pools of Darkness. And that's with two different parties that I've leveled up through all four games over the years to prepare for it.

I remember playing Eye of the Beholder 2 a lot as a kid, but now I pretty much despise the game once I get beyond it's kickass introduction. It is just too simplistic and lacks the tactical battles that made me fall in love with the Gold Box games.

Somewhere in there I became somewhat versed in Console RPGs. The first one of those for me was Dragon Warrior. I managed to beat that one with my Nintendo Power hintbook. I recently replayed it with a walkthrough just to relive the memories and it was not nearly as fun as I remember. Thats old school right there

Though I had an Apple II prior to having a PC as a kid, I never actually had any RPGs for it. Out of all the games I had on that thing, I loved Below the Root the most. I played the shit out of that as a kid and never did beat it. Of course years later using the magic of emulation, I rectified the oversight.

It's funny that I decided to read this thread tonight because I just started another Pool of Radiance playthrough a couple days ago. I just cleared the Slums tonight and I'm endeavoring to take on Sokal Keep, though I believe it's beyond the capabilities of my level 3/4 party.

 

[HiddenX]

Best (old school) Dungeon Games:

Dungeon Master 1+2
Ultima Underworld 1+2
Wizardry 5-8
Amberstar, Ambermoon, Albion
Eye of the Beholder1+2
Might & Magic 2-7
Anvil of Dawn
Wizards & Warriors
Bard's Tale 2
Helherron
Exile 1-3 (=Avernum 1-3)

 

[Jasede]

^^^^
That's a very good last, and all of these are worth playing. Except maybe Anvil of Dawn - but that's just because I haven't tried it and -heard- it's not that good. But actually, I am not so sure; it looks great in screenshots.

And my favourite RPG isn't really easy to find. It's got to have many dungeons; or dungeon-substitutes: interesting places to walk around. Both Wizardry 8 and Start Trail have that. It's got to have lots and lots of numbers. I -love- numbers, even when they don't do much. I think even the unused skills in Star Trail have their place: they make you develop a balanced party that can handle everything instead of focusing on just the things you need. How are you to know if that skill that wasn't ever used in 1 and 2 isn't important in RoA 3?

My favourite RPG is definitely party-based. I don't buy the "only games where you can autistically pretend to be someone else are RPGs", like Fallout. Seems like many new Codex-posters think so, though, and write what I grew up with off as mindless hack and slash. I usually don't argue; but one needs to note that all these old games are far, far too hard to play mindlessly.

Where was I? Dungeons, party, skills and numbers. Both have that, RoA 2 and Wizardry 8. Next is music. Call me stupid, but I consider music very important and will never, ever mute it to listen to something else. That's likely something that developed from childhood trauma. Well, RoA 2 wins by leaps and bounds here. If you can ever get your hands on the 2-CD version of RoA 2 - not the 1 CD! - then you will surely agree.

Wizardry 8, though, gets bonus points for being so new. I mean, the game isn't even ten years old yet, so there's still that tiny bit of hope at least SOME developer stumbles across it and makes a similar game. Heck, I thought about making something called "Lizardry" or something silly, that has humans, elves, etc, rooks, melpurrs, and so on, where you can import your Wizardry 8 party. Of course they will have nothing but the names in common - or that's what the opening screen will say in large print. Who has the Wizardry license anyway?

It's a toss-up between the two games. I thought Wizardry 8 is my favourite, but I need to get real: I 've completed that game ONCE in my lifetime. Oh, don't mind this too much; if I love a game I either play it way too much or only once or twice, and then sustain myself from the memories. But.... I did complete RoA 2 at -least- ten times, with differently themed parties, and explored every little nook and cranny of that game. Plus, it's German, and you know? There's something oddly soothing about being able to play your game in your native tongue without it being an imperfect translation. I call that the Ambermoon-effect. Was great in Gothic too.

Where was I? Oh yeah. By head says RoA 2 and my heart says Wizardry 8.

 

[sportforredneck]

Who has the Wizardry license anyway?

I believe the asians do. Some Jap company or something.

But as a younger boy, I used to write out my plot idea for Wizardry 9, and then 10, and then 11. It would be another trilogy. The 10 one was going to bring back Werdna somehow. Such a pathetic nerd I am.