Paradox announces HOI 3 and releases 2nd Majesty 2 trailer.

[LCJr.]

<strong>[ Announcement ]</strong>

<p>And so begins the Leipzig announcements.</p> <blockquote> <p>New York, USA (August 20, 2008) &ndash; Amidst a backdrop of fevered online speculation, Paradox Interactive has today finally revealed the true identity of "Project Mayhem" at the Games Convention in Leipzig. The next Grand Strategy title to be released from the Paradox Interactive development team is the third instalment in the critically acclaimed Hearts of Iron series. </p> </blockquote> <p>Fevered?  Anyway the full announcement is <a href="http://www.paradoxplaza.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=406&Itemid=129">here. </a></p><p> </p><p>And for those of you interested in Majesty 2 Paradox has released another trailer.</p><blockquote><p>The trailer depicts the "Majesty World" and some of its main characters and hints at their characteristics. 
</p></blockquote><p><a href="http://tr.anp.se/track?t=c&mid=138636&uid=91055797&&&http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28wXPh0u3Kg">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28wXPh0u3Kg</a>
</p><p>Spotted @ <a href="http://www.paradoxplaza.com">Paradox Plaza</a></p>

 

[Erzherzog]

I'm a happy panda.

 

[thesheeep]

I'm impressed. They really seem to keep the original idea behind Majesty.
Indirect controls ftw!

 

[Burning Bridges]

HOI3 is good news, I hope they got the micromanagement and interface issues sorted. I also hope the maps look a bit better this time.

 

[LCJr.]

HOI3 is good news, I hope they got the micromanagement and interface issues sorted. I also hope the maps look a bit better this time.

10,000 provinces. I believe that's about four times their usual number. What were you saying about micromanagement?

 

[Mefi]

10,000 provinces. I believe that's about four times their usual number. What were you saying about micromanagement?

10 000 provinces and only one brain cell needed to manage them. Follow the dumbing down in the series...

Hopefully it'll fleece enough silly kiddies with a Nazi fixation (all that wholesome jackbooted and cool tank goodness - none of that naughty KZ mass-murdering badness) to fund a new version of Crusader Kings or even Victoria.

 

[LCJr.]

If you believe that's the new Paradox business model what makes you think those series will be exempt from the same treatment?

 

[Mefi]

If you believe that's the new Paradox business model what makes you think those series will be exempt from the same treatment?

Totally different fanbase for those two games.

edit: similar story with EU fans too - latest version of that wasn't dumbed down to avoid the cries of 'wah! too much micromanagement for a grand strategy game!'.

 

[LCJr.]

That response smacks of elitism. $ > existing fanbase. If they take one approach to a game and it sells well it's only logical they'll apply the same formula to future titles. Sure they'll lose some of the existing fanbase. But if they bring in more new people than they lose they've increased their profits and created their new fanbase.

 

[Mefi]

Elitism? Sure if that means I want a strategy game which involves strategy. If I want a game which claims to represent a 'historical' start point, sure that's elitism.

As it is, Paradox is using the HoI series as it's cash-cow to fund other developments. Sorry, but that's the truth of the matter.

They won't lose existing fans either - because they've already jumped ship to EU, CK or Vicky. Why do you think the expansion packs came out for long defunct games?

HoI can be considered the entry level drug for Paradox rtwp brand of strategy games. That's not a problem for me - however I would really, really like a game which could be modded for something other than a sanitised, simplified and totally preposterous vision of ww2. It's not going to happen though. What will happen, is that Paradox' next title will be either a revisitation to CK or Vicky. And it will probably be Vicky but a version which works at the first try

 

[LCJr.]

I think the expansion packs came out because the level of forum activity was a pretty good indicator there was still a market for them. I'm also willing to bet the profit to actual work involved ratio is pretty high. Part of it may have been testing the waters to see how well expansions would be received. Apparently it worked since expansions seem to be a core part of their business strategy now.

If I were to label anything a "cash cow" it's the expansions and maybe EU3: Rome.

I strongly suspect HOI 3 and anything else they make in the immediate future are going to be along the same lines as what they did with EU3. More general historic events and mission based gameplay followed by at least one or two expansions. People who like EU3 will probably think that's a good thing. People that preferred specific historical events will probably gravitate to AGEod's games.

 

[Mefi]

Well, we'll see when the actual full details of HoI3 are released.

But my money is on simplification. Flavour events don't provide choice - they're actually designed to railroad the player down a path which can be predicted.

The level of activity on the forums (and that of OT) perhaps indicates that I'm right about Paradox's core and oldest market is migrating away from HoI.

 

[kris]

the things I seen this far about HOI3 have for me been positive. customisable divisions and the region/province system. I heard talk about a revised IC system too, but that is only on a rumour stage this far.

 

[dagorkan]

HoI needs simplification and revamping not more detail. The game is fundamentally broken, fix the basics before adding customizable divisions and 100,000 provinces.

 

[kris]

HoI needs simplification and revamping not more detail. The game is fundamentally broken, fix the basics before adding customizable divisions and 100,000 provinces.

I like detail, not dumbing down.

 

[dagorkan]

Detail which isn't integrated into gameplay is just poor design, it attracts autists and nerds but it doesn't make a good game.

80% of the divisions in HoI2 were useless to build, they cost more and you could calculate that they would cause less damage than however many militia units you could build for the same resources. The way to play the game is to identify the one optimal strategy for a particular nation and just follow that, without giving it more thought. Some countries might have the option of two or three viable strategies at the start but that's it. The rest of the game is a frustrating grind of repetitive tasks.

 

[LCJr.]

The Gamespot Games Convention preview mentioned giving control of areas to the AI.

Paradox hopes to let players be as hands-on or hands-off as they like; if you're not ready to fight multiple theaters of war, you can always assign the AI to handle several fronts for you, while you micromanage the theater you are most interested in.

Mefi, notice there's an EU3:Rome expansion coming out?

 

[dagorkan]

If that's true that's a good move. I remember even old games, Fields of Glory and Romance of the Three Kingdoms in the mid 90's required you to delegate command. Done properly it can be far more realistic and strategic than the Total Micromanagement style, make the player choose the right commanders and their allowed degree of initiative.

 

[Fez]

I like all the Paradox games I've tried (Victoria, HOI, EU, CK) , I don't know why someone would think that they are somehow mutually exclusive.

 

[Mefi]

fix the basics

The basics are fucked before the game code is ever written. No slave labour, no terror bombings, no genocide.

Without slave labout and genocide, you can't have even a rough facsimile of the German economy to make a fair comparison to other countries with. That's why it's impossible to lose in a Germany 1933 scenario - the game has to overpower Germany.

No terror bombings means that 40% of the British war effort vanishes and you end up with a ludicrously overpowered mid-game Germany.

This is a ww2 grand strategy game where the power relationships between the main protagonists is broken totally. You end up with a RTwPS game and one which appeals to a different audience to the other Paradox core games (exception of the hideous red-headed stepchild of Diplomacy)

----

Fez - if you knew all the kings names were wrong in CK would you not want to change them? If you knew the countries names in EU were wrong? The problem is that those problems can never be changed in HoI and so the series is being pushed into a totally different direction. Kind of like Bethesda making a daggerfall 2 as well as Morrowind.

 

[LCJr.]

lame

 

[Mefi]

lame

Not really if it's marketed as being on a par with, say, WitP. The fyndamental problem lies there and Paradox would probably have a decent game where those variables can be totally removed from any game balancing attempt. Problem is they don't get dumbass kids who grow up with a History Channel view of ww2.

I'm a different type of strategy player LCJr - I actually grew up from playing miniatures into the first computer strategy games. It doesn't help that I know that 'strategy' has a seemingly much looser market definition than it ought to have.

 

[LCJr.]

lame

Not really if it's marketed as being on a par with, say, WitP. The fyndamental problem lies there and Paradox would probably have a decent game where those variables can be totally removed from any game balancing attempt. Problem is they don't get dumbass kids who grow up with a History Channel view of ww2.

I'm a different type of strategy player LCJr - I actually grew up from playing miniatures into the first computer strategy games. It doesn't help that I know that 'strategy' has a seemingly much looser market definition than it ought to have.

Another elitist response. Sorry to disappoint but our gaming experiences aren't that different.

 

[Mefi]

Another elitist response. Sorry to disappoint but our gaming experiences aren't that different.

If it's elitist to want a supposedly historical grand strategy game to represent history at the start of the scenario LCJ, yes I'm elitist.

If our experiences are so similar, then tell me what your response would be to someone turning up with machine gun armed French light infantry and claiming that it was historically accurate?

Is that elitism? Maybe there's a new definition for the word I've not seen or something.

 

[LCJr.]

My first instinct is to say you're grasping at straws. But to be honest I don't know what the fuck your doing. Do you?

Seems your whole grievance is Paradox left out concentration camps, labor camps, genocide, the firebombing of Dresden, yadda, yadda... And because they chose to do this anyone who plays HOI and likes it is an inferior.