Paradox announces HOI 3 and releases 2nd Majesty 2 trailer.

[Mefi]

I am left both saddened and confused by your hostility and insults. I was merely pointing out that if your standards are applied to the rest of their products that they also fail.

Are you really, really telling me that you think that they are the same type of strategy games LCJr? I'm really sorry if you can't see the difference - I just thought you were taking the absolute piss.

Ok, erm, in Ck and Vicky you win via prestige. It's a way of winning which rewards both war-making and peaceful solutions. In Ck and Vicky, though Paradox may try to be as accurate as possible, there is no pretence they are 100% historically accurate. And gamers attracted to those prestige type of games do not tend to care about historical accuracy.

HoI is different. In HoI, you fight a war and you win by winning that war. Nothing you do will alter the fact that you have to fight the war to win the game. It's a war simulator. And it's specifically marketed as such and to gamers who want a reasonable facsimile of WW2 not a game of risk.

edit: my sincerest apologies if I've taken you at totally the wrong meaning LCJr.

 

[LCJr.]

I truly find it pathetic that you are incapable of presenting an argument without attempting to assert your "superiority" and attempt to ridicule the opposing side. I could play amateur pyschologist and throw out labels like "inferiority complex" but I've already wasted enough time on you. So go ahead and continue to insult me, my work here and anyone else who disagrees with you. I shall simply chose to ignore you from now on and not waste anymore of my time.

 

[Mefi]

I truly find it pathetic that you are incapable of presenting an argument without attempting to assert your "superiority" and attempt to ridicule the opposing side. I could play amateur pyschologist and throw out labels like "inferiority complex" but I've already wasted enough time on you. So go ahead and continue to insult me, my work here and anyone else who disagrees with you. I shall simply chose to ignore you from now on and not waste anymore of my time.

Oh I don't need your permission to do that LCJr. But isn't it very strange how you feel so able to pontificate about Paradox games but can't tell the difference between a strategy game which uses prestige and one which uses victory points? Maybe that's just me though. Isn't it odd when someone points out the fundamental flaw in the economic model of a grand strategic game you get all excited and start screaming 'you want war crimes!'. Still, you have fun posting your news

 

[Jason]

Guys, guys: you're both pathetic elitist nerds. Now let's all hug and go get ice cream.

 

[Mefi]

Guys, guys: you're both pathetic elitist nerds. Now let's all hug and go get ice cream.

but, but, but - I kept offering him hugs because I thought we were talking at crosspurposes but he kept being mean to me...

-------

@LCJr - if we shadows have offended think but this and all is mended....

 

[kris]

lol Kris you've just proven my point. It's not a historically based grand strategy game then is it? And yes Germany is ahistorically strong 'for balancing reasons'. That's my point. Overpowered Germany does not a historical grand strategy game make. And if you're seriously suggesting the game is balanced correctly, then I really don't know what to say so I'll just laugh and point at you instead

All WW2 strategy games are historical to one or another level. apart from operational level games about a specific battle HOI is the most accurate. the line of were to put in events and historical facts have to put some place and paradox games prefer to put things in the players hand.

a overpowered Germany makes a perfect historical grand strategy game. Point at game. It sure may not be the most accurate simulation though.

I urge you to point at were I said the game was perfectly balanced. I never did, I am just saying it is a good game. anyway, game balance and historical accuracy isn't really compatible.

That you say 'supposed' indicates you haven't a clue Kris. Britain didn't have enough convoy ships to rush sufficient food to India in time. The impact? Well, mainly it impacted upon the Burma campaign and provisions for the forces in Asia. Oh noes logistics. Another thing HoI really isn't too good at.

Itis better on the logistic side than any other game of the same scope. But you are changing your point. Suddenly you actually begin talking about game issues. what about the mass murders? Things that can be improved is another things, is it a gamebreaker for you? Did Vic do it better? We know it didn't.

It's not a rant at all, it's pointing out that HoI is flawed as a concept and model because the economic model doesn't work. And one of the prime reasons for this is Germany, and the reason why Germany is broken is because 2/3 of the German war effort post-41 is taken for granted when in fact it shouldn't be.

Hoi works perfectly well and the economic model work well. You can't have played the game if you say otherwise. Your argument ain't abut that, it is about how closely the game simulate what really happened during the real war. Ideally the game would have factories and assembly plants almost like in Victoria, but that means more micromanagement. Is that what you want?

I really, really don't give a toss about what Paradox do with HoI. Just think it's amusing to see people here complaining about the fly in the kitchen when there's an elephant in the living room.

You mean like you? Who works in the factories doesn't affect gameplay.

edit: re. mods and HoI - nope they all ultimately fail. And as someone who has contributed to the three major mods, I can tell you the reasons are as given above.

Lack of simulated genocide? Yes, that is truly missing.

 

[kris]

Aye, which is why Paradox takes the 44 numbers for German production and works backwards to allow the player to obtain them. But without the contributary factors, it results in an overpowerful Germany and so unbalances the game on top of being totally ahistoric.

Now does it really matter if Hungarian transvestites, dutch single mothers or Danish childworkers work ni the factories? the production is just "IC" and who actually works in those factories doesn't affect gameplay at all.

 

[KazikluBey]

Risk succeeds at strategic depth, and the simple proof of it is to look at the player rankings on a site that does online games. You have some people who win 90% of all the games they participate in and others who win at only 5% with a bell curve in the middle. And yet everyone has the exact same starting resources, starting locations are determined by chance so they average out. Everybody has the same amount of time to plan out their turns. I think apart from a small minority they're all literate, intelligent people who know the rules of the board game - so how do you explain that difference? How does a simple set of rules anyone can understand lead to such different performances?

Um, what? You compare multiplayer Risk with single player HoI strategy? I think you'll find similar results in the multiplayer HoI community.

 

[kris]

MEfi. Anyway, I do understand that you want pops like in victoria in HOI. Personally I wouldn't be against it, nor would I be against changes to the way production works. But don't tell me it is vital or very important for a game like this when we talk about a feature that have only been used in one computer game... ever.