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Torment Planescape Torment - question about switching classes

Nas92

Augur
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Oct 20, 2014
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458
I'm about to switch to Mage as a level 6 Fighter. However, I also have more than enough experience points to level up as a Fighter first and get the Strength bonus and another HP boost. My question is: Does taking the Fighter lvl 7 bonus mean that I lose the Mage lvl 7 bonus Int?
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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I'm about to switch to Mage as a level 6 Fighter. However, I also have more than enough experience points to level up as a Fighter first and get the Strength bonus and another HP boost. My question is: Does taking the Fighter lvl 7 bonus mean that I lose the Mage lvl 7 bonus Int?

yes. you only get the 7th and 12th level specialization bonuses once. highly recommended that you take both from the same class.
 

Nas92

Augur
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Oct 20, 2014
Messages
458
yes. you only get the 7th and 12th level specialization bonuses once. highly recommended that you take both from the same class.
Damn, I thought as much. I guess now my choice is whether I let like 30k XP go to waste, or I give up that extra point of Int. I'm leaning toward giving up the first Mage bonus tbh, especially since I also get another attribute point to spend levelling up to 7 as a fighter (not to mention another HP boost), I guess I'll just put that into Int. Then I'd have 18 Int with the Int tatoo and I'd get another bonus at lvl 12.
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Damn, I thought as much. I guess now my choice is whether I let like 30k XP go to waste, or I give up that extra point of Int. I'm leaning toward giving up the first Mage bonus tbh, especially since I also get another attribute point to spend levelling up to 7 as a fighter (not to mention another HP boost), I guess I'll just put that into Int. Then I'd have 18 Int with the Int tatoo and I'd get another bonus at lvl 12.

it's very easy to hit level 6-7 quickly as a mage by going through Dak'kon's unbroken circle of Zerthimon, which you can get from him after changing classes.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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You can take warrior to 9 to get some extra hit points and THAC0. 32k ex points is nothing. You can kill a bunch of Black Abishai (7000 xp each) before even moving to the Lower Clerk, or just forget about it. You'll be getting hundreds of thousand of xp points later on. You can find monsters in Undersigil after you return from Crust that award 70.000 xp each, i mean it's nothing.
 
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Lyric Suite

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it's very easy to hit level 6-7 quickly as a mage by going through Dak'kon's unbroken circle of Zerthimon, which you can get from him after changing classes.

You need 18 int and 19 wis for that. Unlocking all of the circles will also upgrade Dak'kon. You can then slap a +2 str and +2 con tatoos on him (which will take both stats to 20) and you'll have a killer front liner very early on.
 

Nas92

Augur
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
458
why does it matter what your class is... fighting is trash in this game
Well, that's exactly why. You have to neglect physical skills in order to get the most out of this game, but you still have to fight hordes upon hordes of trash mobs.
 

Lyric Suite

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why does it matter what your class is... fighting is trash in this game

It's fun to build your character nonetheless just for LARPing purposes, who cares. If you look at how dialog checks work anyway you can actually make a well rounded build:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/64381/dialogs-stats-checks-analysis

I've seen people go bonkers with INT and CHA but you don't really need to go that high with either. If you start with 11 CHA you can eventually get to 16 or 18 or even 20 just by using the extra points you get from the quests or the items (you get 3 points from quests, plus a +2 CHA tatoo, a +2 with the Gordian Knot, and +2 with a glass eye you get from Ravel's body), and you can use the friends spell before then. If you go with the mage specialization you can easily start with an INT score of 13, since you get 3 points from the specialization and 3 points from the mage tatoo you get at level 12, and you don't really need more than 19 INT except in some special cases you can prepare for. The only scores that's worth taking to 25 is WIS, CON for the nuts regeneration and STR if you are going fighter instead of mage (and even as mage you can still go out and melee shit). If you gonna pump STR you just have to make sure you have 18 before getting the free bonus from Vhailor.

I mean, it's doable. You should play it safe the first time but once you know the game you can easily make a build that's good at everything, just for the fuck of it, and without having to grind Undersigil like a lunatic.
 
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Lyric Suite

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Did Avellone do anything? I'm replaying the game now using the EE, haven't seen any difference yet. Which, is actually a good thing all considered but still.
 

Lyric Suite

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No. Those things are in the game but you can turn them off. Actually, the game starts with an option to play "enhanced" or "classic" and the classic just has all those options turned off by default.

So far i haven't really seen anything bad, but i haven't gotten very far. The interface is different but it isn't a huge deal and some of the conveniences are pretty good. The zoom thing is good. There's a mod that adds up to four quick saves which is also a god send. And then there's the frame rate accelerator which is also handy. Only thing i'm not getting used to is the new font. It makes reading text easier but it just feels out of place, particularly when you are reading the description of things in the game. Eventually i'll probably learn to ignore it though.
 
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Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Mar 23, 2006
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Ho, forgot. There's no interface wheel in the game. All the spells and abilities are in the bar, like in Baldur's Gate. I never liked the wheel but i'm still getting used to the idea of not having it.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
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Ho, forgot. There's no interface wheel in the game. All the spells and abilities are in the bar, like in Baldur's Gate. I never liked the wheel but i'm still getting used to the idea of not having it.
Hmm that actually sounds pretty good, never played a game where I liked that shit.
 
Unwanted

Bladeract

It's Neckbeard Shitlord. Again.
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I am replaying this too. I started as a fighter with 18 wis and int and am regretting it now due to my pathetic HP. I think I may start over because my early choices were clearly shit and not very optimal.

If I take the specialization as fighter do I just get proficiency slots? Is that it? Or do I get a stat boost.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I am replaying this too. I started as a fighter with 18 wis and int and am regretting it now due to my pathetic HP. I think I may start over because my early choices were clearly shit and not very optimal.

If I take the specialization as fighter do I just get proficiency slots? Is that it? Or do I get a stat boost.

Pretty sure there’s both. Also, I don’t think there are any INT or WIS checks above 16 until Ravel.
 
Unwanted

Bladeract

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Ok, in that case I will just stay with fighter until level 10 or 11 or whenever that second prof thing is.
 

Lyric Suite

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Pretty sure there’s both. Also, I don’t think there are any INT or WIS checks above 16 until Ravel.

There's an Int 18 check in Dead Nations, where you can figure out the riddle that's tormenting the skeleton on your own. You can just chug some cranium rat charms for that. It's only like 6000 extra xp but hey, if you want to be thorough, there's that.
 
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Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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56,648
Ok, in that case I will just stay with fighter until level 10 or 11 or whenever that second prof thing is.

Second bonus is at level 12. You can then put 5 proficiency points in weapons and you get 1 point in str and 1 in con, plus a fighting tattoo.

To be honest i wouldn't recommend going that far, or taking the Fighter bonus at all, UNLESS you are planning to play Fighter until the end, or you are planning to grind for xp. The Mage tattoo is better than the fighting tattoo, plus if you are going Mage you won't get to use the fighter tattoo. You can give it to Dak'Kon but still.

More importantly though, it takes a shit ton of xp to get to 12 (or 13, where you can get an extra half attack i think, so 13 fighter and rest mage is the most munchkin combo in the game). There's no way you can get that by playing the game organically, you'll have to grind Undersigil or you'll have to play as fighter for at least 70% or 80% of the game before you can switch back to mage.

A good alternative to Fighter 13 and rest Mage is Fighter 9, Thief 10 (you can get an extra attack i think and the xp to get there is negligent) and rest Mage, with the Mage bonus instead of the Fighter one. Your starting stats can be something like this:

STR 9
DEX 12
CON 14
WIS 16
INT 13
CHA 11

Constitution bonus over 14 is retroactive, but you get 10 extra HP points from going to 9 to 14 at character creation you can't get back by raising Con later on, and starting with 14 puts you in a position where you can raise it right away as needed. From here, i would go Fighter up to 6, Mage up to 7, Fighter up to 9, Thief up to 10, then rest Mage.

As far as stat points i'd go like this. First goes to Dex, raising it to 13 while you are still in the Mortuary so you can get the neck snap check on the third floor. After that, you can can put the next 2 to Wis, but no more, since you can get a total of 8 points (+7 from quests, +1 from the Mage bonus at level 12, -1 from the Gordian Knot, total 25 which is the cap), or raise Con or Dex at your discretion (there's some Dex checks that go up to 18 related to the Thief class. Not important but you can just play with that while you are leveling Thief. Keep in mind you get +1 point from quests so don't go over 17 in Dex, since 18 is the sweet spot, anything over being way too much of a waste). For the record, you don't really need to just boost Wis to the max right from the start since any xp you lose in the beginning you can make up later on with a single trip to the Undersigil, so you can keep Wis to 16 and boost the other stats for a bit. With a tattoo of +2 plus the +1 bonus from talking to O at the beginning will allow you to get to 19 so you can do the Dak'Kon upgrade chain right away, and you can just keep it at that for a bit). For Str i would just use the Str spell early on, which can last quite a bit, and only raise it once you switch to Mage permanently if you want, because as Mage you only get a 1D4 bonus as opposed to a 1D8, all though that's relative since eventually you'll just be using spells rather than go melee. If you want to be anal about your munchkiness just make sure you have 18 Str before getting any quest bonus so you can skip from 18 to 19 or over in one swoop.

Ho, as for Cha, get a +2 tattoo asap, and use the friends spell as needed. 13 Cha is good enough for most of the early portion of the game, with only a 16 check in Dead Nations, plus a couple of 16 checks for better quest rewards that aren't critical. Once you get to the Lower Ward, get the +3 points from the quests that are there (check a guide if you want) and with 16 Cha plus friends spell you should be good. Later you'll get +2 from the Gordian Knot and +2 from the glass eye that drops from Ravel. The highest check in the game is 24 but with a basis of 18 you can get there with a single cast of the friends spell.

BTW, as far as the combat stats go, Con is crazy good. At 25 your regeneration rate is so high at points you can gain HPs faster than the enemies can take away. It's a pretty ludicrous stat.
 
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Unwanted

Bladeract

It's Neckbeard Shitlord. Again.
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Ok, I think I get it now. If I do level 7 as a fighter though, do I not get the mage tatoot even if I do lv 12 as a mage?

Also, what key do I press to highlight containers? I remember there is one but not what it is.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,648
Ok, I think I get it now. If I do level 7 as a fighter though, do I not get the mage tatoot even if I do lv 12 as a mage?

No. You can only get the second bonus if you get the first bonus in the same class. So if you get the Fighter bonus at 7, you can only get the level 7 Mage bonus or the level 7 Thief bonus, never the 12 level bonus of either, which is bad, since the level 12 bonus is the good one. So you MUST take both bonuses from the same class.
 

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