Fallout Playing Fallout 1 for the first time

[laclongquan]

After project Ettu is out, there's no need to play F1. F1in2 is where it's at~

 

[behold_a_man]

I'd sooner replay Fallout 1 over every other Black Isle game + every Kickstarter era game. It's not perfect, but it kicks every kind of ass.

It plays like a tech demo for what would be Fallout 2. A proof of concept. Half of the skills are essentially unimplemented, half of the half that are implemented are weapon skills.
Fallout 2, Olympus 2207, Nevada and Sonora surpass it in every single way. It's unfair to even compare, it didn't get enough time to cook.

Which 'half' is not implemented? I vividly remember, that all of the skills except traps and possibly throwing were somewhat useful in the first game (but not all character attributes - charisma was useless) - and that in the second game barter became useless. What was so spectacular about Fallout 2? Fighting mutants casually strolling around a ship inhabited by humans? Convincing hardened war criminals from the Enclave that committing genocide is morally questionable? Or maybe the idea of playing ~50 hours game with a lackluster combat and an uneven exploration?
I don't know any game that gave me experience similar to the first Fallout - short and sweet, not text-heavy (unlike Age of Decadence), allowing me to avoid half of the content if I wanted to, with only three dungeons - but all of them memorable. The Glow is the only location with radiation in the game - where it is possible to stay too long, then die on the way back from radiation syndrome; one of the few places giving some sort of story, and the AI. The cathedral was a journey into madness, and in the Mariposa base, I was able to penetrate it either from the bottom (after submitting to the supermutant in Necropolis) or the top - I don't think I remember any game, that gave me that sort of choice - and it made great difference depending on how I want to play the game (for example, it was much easier to play a pacifist going from the bottom).
I remember myriads locations in Fallout 2, that were completely uninteresting - rat caves, raiders' cave, wanamingo mine, Redding tunnels - all of them consisting of multiple levels. Why add those time sinks, if the combat is trash? And why bother replaying the game, if so much of the content is mediocre at best?

If Fallout combat is trash, then what games that have good combat you got in mind?

Underrail and Pathfinder: Kingmaker are probably the best ones. They gave me a lot of variability; they allowed me to screw up completely, yet they rewarded me greatly for the knowledge of the game mechanics.
In Fallout, I could make absurd decisions regarding character development, and still be quite well off (like putting many points in charisma in Fallout 1; or dumping skill points in a skill, for which there are skill books). All things scale in a trivial way: for example, Alien Blaster is a better gun than anything in the first game; similarly, in Fallout 2 YK42B was better than any energy weapon. Same goes for other types of weapons and armor. In Underrail, this was made much less simplistic by the inclusion of crafting: I always had a dilemma 'is it better to put points in crafting, or in weapon skill, or stealth?'. And there were psionic abilities (all of which were to some extent special), there were useful traps, there were shields, stealth (that influenced combat) etc.. In Kingmaker, equipment could be tailored for some character - for example, it's not obvious, whether 'Mirror Bow' or 'Hunter's Blessing' or 'Gamekeeper of the First World' is better for a given character in a given situation. Teamwork feats added yet another layer of depth for combat - adding 'outflank' to all melee characters changed it completely, for example. Perks could make a difference between having half of your characters stunned for all of the encounter, or finishing it in two turns ('Blind Fight', in particular). Fallout has probably the most simplistic combat of all the turn based games I've ever played. And they could have added interesting party-based combat in Fallout 2, they just didn't.

 

[Snufkin]

Heh, while i agree that Fallout 1 can be completed with trash build, the second game kinda is important to create munchkin to be able to beat later stages of the game.

 

[smaug]

Fo1 is pleasingly brief, Fo2 (and NV) is just straight-up bloated in comparison.

Still the best Fallout game. Used to prefer Fo2 when I was younger but in retrospect I don't know what the fuck I was thinking, Fo1 is obviously better.

That sense of eerie surrealness, that ramps up further and further as you go deeper into the game, has never really been recaptured by any of the subsequent games. Fo2 went too far into comedy (and I'm saying that as someone who generally likes the comedy aspects of Fo2) and had too much jarring ill-fitting shit smashed together, while NV was much too mundane and grounded. Fo3 did actually try to recapture Fo1's tone of queasy unreality at times but the writing ability just wasn't there and it mostly came across as completely retarded. Fo4 is not worthy of mention.

Spoilers for BruceVC's sake:

Spoiler

the Cathedral is the best last dungeon in any game ever (and yes, it is the last dungeon, only a complete dickhead would do Mariposa last). No glorious battle against hordes of minions or any of the usual RPG shit. Just absolute horror and confusion that gets worse the deeper you go, and then the achingly sad final confrontation.

The corridor leading up to the Master has stayed with me ever since I first played the game. "A voice calls to you. You turn your head and see the image of a forgotten friend, obviously dead. The worms fall from her rotted jaw as your headache grows." Fuck!

I don’t think it’s fair to criticize F2 for not capturing the same atmosphere as F1. F1 was the novelty game and obviously F2 had no chance of recreating that. Also it is a good final dungeon but the Oil Rig is more gimmicky which gives it the edge despite the forced last encounter.

 

[behold_a_man]

Heh, while i agree that Fallout 1 can be completed with trash build, the second game kinda is important to create munchkin to be able to beat later stages of the game.

'Optimizing' still reduces to 'dumping a lot of skill points into weapons' (unless you play a pacifist) and 'Maximizing action points' or 'Maximizing expected damage' with perks - and its aim is primarily reducing the tedium of a tactically shallow combat.

 

[smaug]

I am playing FO1 for the first time with the Fixt mod and Im about 6 hours into the game

Its good fun, its taken me time to learn some of the basic mechanics but now Im comfortable with that and the left and right clicking required. I still am enjoying killing rats in Vault 15 and I always appreciate the specific targeting of enemies that Fallout games provides, I like to aim for the head

Further updates to follow once Im 30 hours or so in

Are you still killing rats in V15 at 6 hours? Wtf. Also, why are you sing FIXT? what a shitty mod. Bro even when I was noob the game only took like 15 hours at most. You can only get 30 by playing slow as hell or by playing as a retard.

 

[behold_a_man]

Outdoorsman is useless in FO1

It speeds up traversing the game world - for example a road from Necropolis to Vault 13 takes:
-> 7 days, 4 hours and 24 minutes having 91 outdoorsman
-> 11 days, 13 hours and 31 minutes having 20 outdoorsman
Which is somewhat meaningful given time constraint in the game.

 

[skaraher]

Wasn't there a design flaw which meant your PC CPU dictated the speed at which you moved on map, or only FO2 had it ?

 

[Hellraiser]

The first time I beat Fallout I had to start a new game multiple times because I could not find the waterchip in time. I don't remember if I had an internet connection back then or not, but obviously I did not use a walkthrough. It was a very unique journey of discovery and general experience that I never had with any other game.

I think I didn't have an internet connection back then, because I recall that Fallout helped me improve my English language skills before I started arguing with strangers on internet forums.

 

[Hellraiser]

Wasn't there a design flaw which meant your PC CPU dictated the speed at which you moved on map, or only FO2 had it ?

Both games had it IIRC, frame rate goes BRRRR.

 

[Ryzer]

Wasn't there a design flaw which meant your PC CPU dictated the speed at which you moved on map, or only FO2 had it ?

Both games had it IIRC, frame rate goes BRRRR.

I don't remember it causing insanely fast game speed in the game, or maybe was it hardlocked to 30-60 fps?

 

[normie]

First time i played Fallout 1 i went straight from Mariposa to Cathedral and skipped the whole Boneyard without knowing it was the endgame town. So playthroughs do leave you things to discover.

you didn't miss out on much then, though, Boneyard is complete code spaghetti and unlike every other location that's barely populated and barely has content to justify itself as a location, it's not neatly tied up

it's constant with with Fallout 1 - its dialog is limited and lacking like a voice acted game's dialog would be, but there's only select partial voice acting, wtf (answer: tech demo)

Neither Fo1 or Fo2 is fully fleshed out - go ahead and build a character with Doctor, Gambling and Outdoorsman as tag skills and see how many roleplaying opportunities that offers.

it's not only that the skills get an actual use, but actually the perk system was actually implemented for a game that actually has enough content to call it a game and not just as a placeholder system like with FO1, so yeah - now you get to doctor around if you invest in doctor, but you also get to pick Living Anatomy

gambling is useful because unlike FO1, FO2 has an economy and things you'd actually want to buy with your gains, your rp opportunity is all the damn gambling places, a whole town - kit yourself, kit your companions, kit your car, there's an actual game world that has use for money
there's more combat situations for the increased number of weaponry and their modded variants, unlike FO1 where there's barely enough content for the few weapons it has, you'll be skipping the entire mid-tier of weaponry because there's not enough game for the weapon assets lol

outdoorsman too is useful, and unlike FO1 there's encounters you'd want to avoid - hell, there's actually places you need to and want to go to and from, so you actually travel a lot and have a lot of encounters to check, and there's relevant dialog

The issues with Fo1's mechanics not being fully implemented aren't remedied, they're actually exacerbated.

they're not, you're just a bonehead
there's an actual game for the mechanics, but you're gushing over the tech demo lol

but it's a superb recreation of a short tabletop campaign in videogame form, in a way that few people have ever recreated

Disco Elysium is a better tabletop recreation, Fallout 2 is a better Fallout game

 

[normie]

if FO1 was released today, you'd all be calling it an early access scam

 

[Cohesion]

BruceVC, how is it going? Will you play Fallout 2 after F1?
We have played these games already many times, I'm interested in your newbie-first-time opinion.
I don't think you need mods btw. This isn't Morrowind(daggerfall etc) or Arcanum or VTMB. Original F1/F2 are perfect.

EDIT: re: mods

 

[BruceVC]

BruceVC, how is it going? Will you play Fallout 2 after F1?
We have played these games already many times, I'm interested in your newbie-first-time opinion.
I don't think you need mods btw. This isn't Morrowind(daggerfall etc) or Arcanum or VTMB. Original F1/F2 are perfect.

EDIT: re: mods

Im loving it, its definitely your quintessential CRPG that is true sandbox, real C&C and open world. I absolutely will be playing FO2. In fact I will probably play it after I finish FO1

I realize now after reading some comments that Fixt wasnt necessary, I installed it before I read certain comments. But I installed it after reading its summary because there are very few mods for F01&2. The summary for Fixt from NMA is

"To enhance, fix and improve the Fallout 1 experience. This includes fixing bugs, restoring features, modifying balance, adding features, and many fixes to text/dialog. In addition to that, all other available mods and patches are rolled into Fixt (see below), meaning that Fallout Fixt is the only thing needed for "the best" Fallout 1 experience. As of the most recent version, this mod fixes roughly 150 bugs still present in the unofficial patches, and adds roughly 170 features. In addition, there are hundreds if not thousands of text&dialog fixes"

So it seemed like a " must have mod " but if I had read your post and others before I installed it I may not have used it. I was hasty and normally wait for gamers feedback but it seemed like a good idea at the time

And then Im about 25 hours into FO1 and Im only on the quests to find who the mutant leaders are. I play all RPG the same way. I dont rush through them and I definitely dont exploit some design so I can finish it in 15 hours. I talk to everyone, do as many quests as possible and then explore most of the land before I get bored and only then do I focus on the main quest

I love the fact that in FO1 there is no hand holding and you really need to explore to complete quests. for example to find the Water Chip I ended up in Necropolis after hearing rumors they had a water supply. I spent lots of time exploring the town and I finally met ghouls in the sewers who told me about the water chip there but I shouldnt take it unless I helped fix there water system first

But I couldnt find the repair items and I ended up just taking the water chip and having to kill some glowing ones. I didnt think this would impact things like in most RPG but later I came back to Necropolis to buy ammunition and the whole town was a dead zone ...because of me. I felt really guilty and I realize how C&C matters in the game design

Its an excellent game so far and it captures nicely those superior mechanics that only CRPG provide

 

[Zlaja]

I came back to Necropolis to buy ammunition and the whole town was a dead zone ...because of me

 

[BruceVC]

I had just an epic battle to free Tandi from the Khans and its an example of why I love this type of CRPG and combat mechanics . It was chaotic and frenetic and I needed to restore several times because I got killed about 5 times before defeating the Khans and freeing her. Also there are several strategies you can use but this was mine

• I was level 7 with Ian, Dogmeat and Katja in my party. You would assume having companions would always be a combat benefit but they dont always fight logically and sometimes draw aggro outside of my plans or what I instruct them to do. But they still good to use
• I defeated the Khans outside the tents first using my AK and very useful plasma pistol
• Then Ian decided to run into the main building by himself while we were fighting outside, he was eventually killed but his sacrifice will he remembered because he seemed to distract most of the main mobs inside the building and they didnt come outside
• I then used grenades and my AK to defeat the main enemies inside with Dogmeat playing a huge part of the success

I found loads of loot and items to sell which is appreciated because I am constantly short of money. But then I had to be selective and leave lots of stuff behind. But the reality of inventory limitation is something I like because it adds to realism and immersion. Now I have finally upgraded my armour

And I was down to 4 hp with no Stimpacks when the last Khan died, literally on my last legs of survival. But fun battle and very strategic

 

[Glop_dweller]

Wasn't there a design flaw which meant your PC CPU dictated the speed at which you moved on map, or only FO2 had it ?

In FO2 the CPU speed affected the frequency of random encounters on the overland map.

FO2 also lost the feature of having the encounter area match the overland map terrain where the encounter occurred. (IE. city, desert, coast, cliffs/cave, etc...)
__________

Hint/tip: Save the game [FO1] anywhere near close quarter/cramped areas of the map if you have party members, because there is no way to force them to move out of the way. They can block doorways, and block the PC into tight corners with no way to escape other than direct combat.

 

[Roguey]

I don't think you need mods btw. This isn't Morrowind(daggerfall etc) or Arcanum or VTMB. Original F1/F2 are perfect.

SFall is mandatory for both as far I'm concerned. Need mousewheel for the inventory and combat speed shortcuts for the excruciatingly long Melcar-heavy fights.

 

[BruceVC]

Wasn't there a design flaw which meant your PC CPU dictated the speed at which you moved on map, or only FO2 had it ?

In FO2 the CPU speed affected the frequency of random encounters on the overland map.

FO2 also lost the feature of having the encounter area match the overland map terrain where the encounter occurred. (IE. city, desert, coast, cliffs/cave, etc...)
__________

Hint/tip: Save the game [FO1] anywhere near close quarter/cramped areas of the map if you have party members, because there is no way to force them to move out of the way. They can block doorways, and block the PC into tight corners with no way to escape other than direct combat.

Yes, I have noticed that. My companions have once to twice blocked me and you cant do anything about short of killing them, it happened to me in the Khan main building, luckily I save regularly

 

[laclongquan]

IIRC The original 150 days for water chip is quite tight, especially for first run. We made the decision to arrange for water caravan because it's a logical decision at the time. Especially with 100 days extension coming from that.

 

[luj1]

I had just an epic battle to free Tandi from the Khans and its an example of why I love this type of CRPG and combat mechanics . It was chaotic and frenetic and I needed to restore several times because I got killed about 5 times before defeating the Khans and freeing her. Also there are several strategies you can use but this was mine

• I was level 7 with Ian, Dogmeat and Katja in my party. You would assume having companions would always be a combat benefit but they dont always fight logically and sometimes draw aggro outside of my plans or what I instruct them to do. But they still good to use
• I defeated the Khans outside the tents first using my AK and very useful plasma pistol
• Then Ian decided to run into the main building by himself while we were fighting outside, he was eventually killed but his sacrifice will he remembered because he seemed to distract most of the main mobs inside the building and they didnt come outside
• I then used grenades and my AK to defeat the main enemies inside with Dogmeat playing a huge part of the success

I found loads of loot and items to sell which is appreciated because I am constantly short of money. But then I had to be selective and leave lots of stuff behind. But the reality of inventory limitation is something I like because it adds to realism and immersion. Now I have finally upgraded my armour

And I was down to 4 hp with no Stimpacks when the last Khan died, literally on my last legs of survival. But fun battle and very strategic

after FO thats where the fun begins

fo 2 - more of everything
fallout tactics - amazing game trust me
fallout of nevada - feels like part of OG franchise

 

[deuxhero]

Since I'm running Linux now: How is the Community Edition sourceport? The game should run fine on Proton, but native is always better.

 

[Lemming42]

As long as we're having a Fo1 thread, and since BruceVC just finished this part - does anyone know what exactly finishes the "free the slaves" quest? I can never figure out what the speciifc victory conditions are. It's not just killing every Khan on the map, because the quest often completes with several exterior guards left standing. And it's not just killing Garl, because I've assassinated him with reverse-pickpocketed dynamite (and beat him to death in the one-on-one fight, which the other Khans seem to let you get away with) and the two women are still considered to be captives after that.

I don't think you even have to kill every named Khan, since you can leave weirdos like Petrox alive and have the quest complete, iirc. It's always confused me. I find it more fun to fuck around and do targeted assassinations rather than engage in all-out combat, but I always end up massacring the entire Khans base because I can't find out who precisely the game wants me to kill to free the captives.

 

[Jigby]

Since I'm running Linux now: How is the Community Edition sourceport? The game should run fine on Proton, but native is always better.

just use wine/proton, sfall is still not implemented and most of the work is now done on iwd2:re. I think he's more interested in reversing than in reimplementing sfall (understandable). I'd use the community version only if you're on a non-x86 platform. Maybe in a year things will be different?

As long as we're having a Fo1 thread, and since BruceVC just finished this part - does anyone know what exactly finishes the "free the slaves" quest? I can never figure out what the speciifc victory conditions are. It's not just killing every Khan on the map, because the quest often completes with several exterior guards left standing. And it's not just killing Garl, because I've assassinated him with reverse-pickpocketed dynamite (and beat him to death in the one-on-one fight, which the other Khans seem to let you get away with) and the two women are still considered to be captives after that.

I don't think you even have to kill every named Khan, since you can leave weirdos like Petrox alive and have the quest complete, iirc. It's always confused me. I find it more fun to fuck around and do targeted assassinations rather than engage in all-out combat, but I always end up massacring the entire Khans base because I can't find out who precisely the game wants me to kill to free the captives.

I kind of wondered about that too, so I had a look. AFAIK the condition is (GARL being dead AND less than 13 raiders left alive) OR (less than 7 raiders left alive; including GARL). I guess I should try it and see.

Edit: yep, tried it and that seems to be the condition.