Possible incline in Mech gaming?

[Drakron]

The problem with MechWarrior is that it doesn't bring either an indept simulation model where you are presented with a wide variety of tools to use for victory or a satisfying high-speed arcade experience with extensive customization between opponents.

Calling bullshit.

First Mechwarriors games have all that, it was only with 4 that it gone to "simplify" and then the true arcade of MechAssault series.

MechWarrior 3 was in fact, FUCKING AWESOME.

MechCommander was especially good were due to being a RTS game and how limited we things weret, I recall the first time I see a Madcat and my poor light Mechs were being pounded, attempting to salvage it would mean I would risk my poor mechs to be utter destroyed ... still managed to get one once due to a lucky shoot into the cockpit that killed the pilot but due to weight limits I still could not really deploy it on the battlefield ... heck I think the best I could do with heavies were deploying 2 Atlas that even if they could wreck shit they were still not invincible.

 

[Black_Willow]

Mech simulation is all about LARPing.

 

[Destroid]

...I recall the first time I see a Madcat and my poor light Mechs were being pounded, attempting to salvage it would mean I would risk my poor mechs to be utter destroyed ... still managed to get one once due to a lucky shoot into the cockpit that killed the pilot but due to weight limits I still could not really deploy it on the battlefield ... heck I think the best I could do with heavies were deploying 2 Atlas that even if they could wreck shit they were still not invincible.

haha, I recall doing that mission like 6 times trying to salvage that damn madcat, never got it though.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

The problem with MechWarrior is that it doesn't bring either an indept simulation model where you are presented with a wide variety of tools to use for victory or a satisfying high-speed arcade experience with extensive customization between opponents.

Calling bullshit.

First Mechwarriors games have all that, it was only with 4 that it gone to "simplify" and then the true arcade of MechAssault series.

MechWarrior 3 was in fact, FUCKING AWESOME.

Only shows your barely there knowledge of the mecha genre. If you think the MechWarrior series, much less fucking MechWarrior 3, had extensive selection of tools at your disposal, you need to play some more mecha games. And if there's one thing MechWarrior isn't, it's fast. The game is paced for people with disabilities!

The MechWarrior series only had the standard list of weaponry for all mecha simulators, and few marginal options you could add, such as the relatively useless ECM that required no active effort on the player's part. I already listed the vastly larger variety in features in Heavy Gear 2 and Armored Core without even getting into the weapon lists that are longer than what any MechWarrior game possesses (and have far less weapons where the only variable between models is damage).

...I recall the first time I see a Madcat and my poor light Mechs were being pounded, attempting to salvage it would mean I would risk my poor mechs to be utter destroyed ... still managed to get one once due to a lucky shoot into the cockpit that killed the pilot but due to weight limits I still could not really deploy it on the battlefield ... heck I think the best I could do with heavies were deploying 2 Atlas that even if they could wreck shit they were still not invincible.

haha, I recall doing that mission like 6 times trying to salvage that damn madcat, never got it though.

The trick there was either timing a quick series of orbital strikes correctly when the Mad Cat is crossing the bridge, or hitting one of the gas tanks in the area when the Mad Cat was just on the edge of the blast radius. Fighting the Mad Cat directly with Light 'mechs would be a waste of resources when you've got all the other options on the table in that map.

It's quite doable, you have considerable tactical advantages in the area where you encounter the Mad Cat. And if you're a cheap bastard, you can use the camera drone or sensor probe to allow you to hit the poor guy without him even getting the chance to pompously charge at you across the bridge.

 

[DraQ]

I am disappointed by the fascinating subject that is TN:SFC not being followed.

 

[deus101]

It's popamole in the true Codex definition: It's made of shit and decline.

pop-a-mole = "QUICK HIT IT WITH THE HAMMER"

A mech simulation is all about the skill when properly made. The problem with MechWarrior series is that it doesn't feature significant variation in electronics, countermeasures, critical damage (in the real sense, like engine, pilot compartment or gyroscope hits), optional features, inherent flaws or mobility. It's all about firing the bigger gun repeatedly at an almost static target.

By contrast, in Heavy Gear 2 melee combat, electronic warfare and immense emphasis on mobility are used. Even if the other mech has considerably less firepower and armor but jump jets and higher speed, a skilled player will demolish the opponent in short order without taking any damage.

The damage model in the MechWarrior series is also inferior and undetailed. Even at the best of times, all it had for critical damage was speed decrease, weapon destruction and ammo explosion. It doesn't even have a chance for penetrating hits, just numbers whittling down and eventually introducing a percentile chance for effects.

It's vastly preferable to instead go even for the more arcade style of Armored Core, where the damage model is just numbers whittling, but the customizable variables for your mech's targeting systems, accuracy, stability, speed, munition velocity, engine power, energy storage, energy output and damage taking are vastly expanded upon, which then effect how you bring your own skill as the pilot to bear.

The problem with MechWarrior is that it doesn't bring either an indept simulation model where you are presented with a wide variety of tools to use for victory or a satisfying high-speed arcade experience with extensive customization between opponents.

The reason why they are able to do so is because they made an FPS, not an simulator, true extra extensions on the weapons and tools aspects in MW could be expanded upon.

But robot melee combat is weabo faggotry....sorry but in my book...if its got the letters "sim" innit...you play the game with a joystick

 

[Destroid]

The trick there was either timing a quick series of orbital strikes correctly when the Mad Cat is crossing the bridge, or hitting one of the gas tanks in the area when the Mad Cat was just on the edge of the blast radius. Fighting the Mad Cat directly with Light 'mechs would be a waste of resources when you've got all the other options on the table in that map.

It's quite doable, you have considerable tactical advantages in the area where you encounter the Mad Cat. And if you're a cheap bastard, you can use the camera drone or sensor probe to allow you to hit the poor guy without him even getting the chance to pompously charge at you across the bridge.

The problem wasn't destroying it but lucking out on the salvage.

 

[deuxhero]

If just using a mech is enough to qualify as a mech game here, then Zone of the Enders: 2nd Runner as well.

Does Custom Robo count as a mech game then? The GCN one was pretty damn fun (and hilariously written). Getting DS one tomorrow because of a price drop.

 

[Black]

Hawken Trailer (work in progress)

Granted, it is a work in progress, the animations still look stiff and sort of clumsy... looks fairly interesting?

Hawken?
Really?
That's it, end of line.

Eh, it looks pretty but it looks to twitchy for me. I want my mechs to be heavy, clunky and making earthquakes with each step they make.

 

[Destroid]

It has to be twitchy. You can't really have a slow action game, that's retarded.

 

[Baron]

http://www.hawkengame.com/blog/wp-conte ... hot_01.jpg

http://www.hawkengame.com/blog/wp-conte ... hot_02.jpg

http://www.hawkengame.com/blog/wp-conte ... hot_04.jpg

So god damned beautiful, I look forward to destroying it.

 

[J1M]

No, fuck you and fuck your fucking animu mechas.

The greatest thing about Mechwarrior is that the Mechs are gigantic monsters of steel and destruction, sluggish and slow but able to tear apart a fucking city, if you want your fucking ballerina robots just stick with your animu mechas but don't mess with MechWarrior



PS: I didn't say fuck, fuck, fuck enough.

 

[Spark Mandriller]

The problem wasn't destroying it but lucking out on the salvage.

It's not too bad if you hurry at the start and run a commando or something with a useless pilot over the bridge before it gets destroyed. It only takes like a minute to get to the fuel tanks that way, so you can just keep restarting until you get lucky with the salvage and then do the rest of the mission with your real guys.

It's pretty cheap, of course, but there are only like four timber wolves in the entire game, so I dunno what else you're meant to do.

 

[Lightknight]

Heavy Gear 2 already proved that the MW gameplay model is a load of shit.

Heavy Gear, hmm...is that the one that nobody played, and that faded into obscurity months after release ? Seriously, i dont know ANYONE (you're the first) who actually talks about HG today on mecha fansites. Mechwarrior 2 is still played today, though.

Also, HG are pretty much power suits, not mechas.

 

[Shannow]

Mech combat (not mecha) is NOT an FPS, its partly a simulator! A tank simulator with legs and a complex damage model.

This.
Though I don't mind if the kiddies get their UT with mechs. Hell, I'd might play that too. But I want simulator combat with mechs, not a bunny-hopping action-shooter.

 

[Baron]

People should stop whining they didn't get Dragon Age in their Final Fantasy. Western mech genre is the little brother to the completely separate Japanese Robotech genre. Here we have
- mechs with boosters
- fast anime manoeuvrability and combat
- set in an asian city

Why bitch about Adhesive Games not building slow 100 tonne mechs plodding over a dust field when they are clearly designing a game based on the Japanese genre?


Second half of this robotech clip has some good old fashioned urban mecha violence.

 

[Destroid]

They even use the same turquoise colouring as armoured core 4.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

The trick there was either timing a quick series of orbital strikes correctly when the Mad Cat is crossing the bridge, or hitting one of the gas tanks in the area when the Mad Cat was just on the edge of the blast radius. Fighting the Mad Cat directly with Light 'mechs would be a waste of resources when you've got all the other options on the table in that map.

It's quite doable, you have considerable tactical advantages in the area where you encounter the Mad Cat. And if you're a cheap bastard, you can use the camera drone or sensor probe to allow you to hit the poor guy without him even getting the chance to pompously charge at you across the bridge.

The problem wasn't destroying it but lucking out on the salvage.

Well, to get that it's best to beat the Mad Cat in the most efficient manner possible.

Hence why I usually started the mission, camera or sensor probed the Mad Cat, and then proceeded to use a series of orbital strikes to destroy it. No matter if the weapons are buster, the chassis is what matters.

 

[Destroid]

Now I can enter the time machine and fulfill my childhood.

 

[Drakron]

Well, to get that it's best to beat the Mad Cat in the most efficient manner possible.

God, I now feel like posting that Sera image ...

Beating the Mad Cat is easy, however SALVAGING it in a operational status is NOT and Clan tech is better that Inner Sphere Tech so the real trick is how to get it because its hands-downs one of the best Mech in the game.

Doing what you are saying is make it sheer luck, it can happen but more likely its going to be destroyed.

 

[DwarvenFood]

It's popamole in the true Codex definition: It's made of shit and decline.

A mech simulation is all about the skill when properly made. The problem with MechWarrior series is that it doesn't feature significant variation in electronics, countermeasures, critical damage (in the real sense, like engine, pilot compartment or gyroscope hits), optional features, inherent flaws or mobility. It's all about firing the bigger gun repeatedly at an almost static target.

By contrast, in Heavy Gear 2 melee combat, electronic warfare and immense emphasis on mobility are used. Even if the other mech has considerably less firepower and armor but jump jets and higher speed, a skilled player will demolish the opponent in short order without taking any damage.

The damage model in the MechWarrior series is also inferior and undetailed. Even at the best of times, all it had for critical damage was speed decrease, weapon destruction and ammo explosion. It doesn't even have a chance for penetrating hits, just numbers whittling down and eventually introducing a percentile chance for effects.

It's vastly preferable to instead go even for the more arcade style of Armored Core, where the damage model is just numbers whittling, but the customizable variables for your mech's targeting systems, accuracy, stability, speed, munition velocity, engine power, energy storage, energy output and damage taking are vastly expanded upon, which then effect how you bring your own skill as the pilot to bear.

The problem with MechWarrior is that it doesn't bring either an indept simulation model where you are presented with a wide variety of tools to use for victory or a satisfying high-speed arcade experience with extensive customization between opponents.

Wait, what ?

MechWarrior is more than which robot has the bigger gun mind you, I cannot believe what I am reading here. Let's talk Mw2: Mercs. There are multiple ways of approaching the missions, and the way you play the mission will differ if you pick different type of mechs to start the mission with. Never mind the equipment, you can go long-range, missile-based, guns, pulse.. implement cooling solutions, figure out how to get the most out of the mech even if it's immobile and without "arms". The game really cannot be described as papamole. I played missions with much enjoyment, but I could never complete the one on the snow scooter where you blow up the nuclear plant (if I recall correctly). Oh, the Arena was Awesome as well (see the pun?)

It may not be a simulator in the sense of Falcon 3 compared to some less detailed sims, but it certainly is no H.A.W.X. kind of game.

 

[Black Bart Charley]

Lots of suggested detail does not make great gfx. Only for animu faggots maybe. Apart from that I am not impressed. Nothing interesting to see really. Skinjob for a run of the mill fps.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Well, to get that it's best to beat the Mad Cat in the most efficient manner possible.

God, I now feel like posting that Sera image ...

Beating the Mad Cat is easy, however SALVAGING it in a operational status is NOT and Clan tech is better that Inner Sphere Tech so the real trick is how to get it because its hands-downs one of the best Mech in the game.

Doing what you are saying is make it sheer luck, it can happen but more likely its going to be destroyed.

However, because you normally need to go through quite a bit of stuff before you get to fight it.

I wouldn't say the payload of a single mech's worth of Clan tech is absolutely critical. The acquisition of a great heavy chassis is far more important.



Besides, Clanners are faggot scum.

MechWarrior is more than which robot has the bigger gun mind you, I cannot believe what I am reading here. Let's talk Mw2: Mercs. There are multiple ways of approaching the missions, and the way you play the mission will differ if you pick different type of mechs to start the mission with. Never mind the equipment, you can go long-range, missile-based, guns, pulse.. implement cooling solutions, figure out how to get the most out of the mech even if it's immobile and without "arms". The game really cannot be described as papamole. I played missions with much enjoyment, but I could never complete the one on the snow scooter where you blow up the nuclear plant (if I recall correctly). Oh, the Arena was Awesome as well (see the pun?)

It may not be a simulator in the sense of Falcon 3 compared to some less detailed sims, but it certainly is no H.A.W.X. kind of game.

When it comes down to mano a mano combat, MechWarrior series is hopelessly lackluster. It only features direct confrontation, and even in that it all boils down to the highly simplistic loadouts, which boil down to getting the largest amount of optimized firepower. The weapons present are the stock weapons of the mecha genre, and games like Armored Core series and Heavy Gear 2 feature vastly expanded arsenals, such as vertical launch missiles, submunition missiles (I could just start listing all the missile types of Armored Core series, but I digress), mortars, radar and spotter operated guided mortars, melee weapons, shields, mines, grenade launchers, field cannons, sniper rifles, grenades, haywire weaponry, ECM pods, rocket pods and sidearms (ie, pistols). And that's without taking into account the non-weapon aspects of the mech, which are just as expanded.

 

[baronjohn]

Reminds me of Slave Zero

 

[deus101]

When it comes down to mano a mano combat, MechWarrior series is hopelessly lackluster. It only features direct confrontation, and even in that it all boils down to the highly simplistic loadouts, which boil down to getting the largest amount of optimized firepower. The weapons present are the stock weapons of the mecha genre, and games like Armored Core series and Heavy Gear 2 feature vastly expanded arsenals, such as vertical launch missiles, submunition missiles (I could just start listing all the missile types of Armored Core series, but I digress), mortars, radar and spotter operated guided mortars, melee weapons, shields, mines, grenade launchers, field cannons, sniper rifles, grenades, haywire weaponry, ECM pods, rocket pods and sidearms (ie, pistols). And that's without taking into account the non-weapon aspects of the mech, which are just as expanded.

I'm sorry, but....it just dosent seem to be part of the same genre...what you are talking about is an FPS(to be blunt)... sorry but pop-a-mole does not belong in a simulator. (but agin im being very blunt here im sure Heavy Gear is a fun game but its not what im after in a mech-sim)