Rank all BioWare games

[KörangarTheMighty]

All the back tracking at the start of Kotor is pretty painful and aggravating.

What backtracking? Taris is a straight line with optional detours from the upper city to the gang base(s). You're only sent back to the upper city once you win the race, unless you opt to go back yourself.

 

[luj1]

Peragus is much worse than Taris

 

[Butter]

Peragus is much worse than Taris

Kashyyyk is pretty terrible, but otherwise I'd argue that planet for planet, KotOR 1 easily crushes KotOR 2.

 

[Beans00]

Good games:
Baldurs gate 1/Baldurs gate 2 -> I've gone back and forth on which I prefer over the years, generally 1 but I rank them about the same.

Ok for what they were games:
Kotor
mass effect 1
mass effect 2

Crap that I expected to be good and played a part in making me jaded with new game releases:
NWN + expansions, I'm not in cope mode over hotu and sou, all were terrible

One of the worst games I ever played:
Dragon age origins- genuinely don't understand how people beat this. I expected it to be bad so I wasn't taken off guard or anything but the cringe in this game was off the charts.

I played jade empire for like 45 minutes back when EA gave it away for free on origin but not long enough to give an opinion. Seemed worse then Kotor better then NWN.

So;
Bg1= Bg2 >>>>>Kotor>>>ME1>ME2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nwn>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DA:O

 

[NecroLord]

Peragus is much worse than Taris

Kashyyyk is pretty terrible, but otherwise I'd argue that planet for planet, KotOR 1 easily crushes KotOR 2.

Nar Shaddaa and Dxun/Onderon are also great, though I wish you had some more stuff to do on Onderon.
But, yeah, Kotor had better planets.
Taris is a really good one and way better than the Peragus Droid-fest...

 

[JarlFrank]

NWN's core gameplay is so horrendously terrible, not even the best modules can save it.

I know you have a long standing (mostly irrational) bias against NWN, but no

Swordflight and several other modules are masterpieces of game design

I guarantee this with my 25 years of gaming experience

These modules are literally full-fledged RPGs and better than 99% of commercially released games

NWN as a modding platform is actually amazing

I played Swordflight up to episode 3 or 4.

All the time I was playing it, my main thoughts were:
- damn this is some good level/quest/puzzle design
- damn this would actually be fun had it been made for a game that didn't play terribly

I genuinely think Swordflight and A Dance With Rogues are great RPG modules.
But NWN is so un-fun to play that I can't get any enjoyment out of it. No matter the quality of the module, I'm just not having fun.

Swordflight is a 10/10 module made for a 0/10 game.

 

[9ted6]

Codex overrates Dragon Age Origins massively imo

It wasn't amazing but it was enjoyable, which can't be said for any Bioware game made after it.

It was also a fantasy game that wasn't DND or DND lite, and it was a dark fantasy that did it better than Twitcher or Thrones. Two rare qualities. It was also one of the last fantasy RPGs before Skyrim and Dark Souls so it didn't spend all its time trying to emulate them like most fantasy games after.

It's not the best game ever and is full of flaws but it showed that Bioware could've made decent games if they tried or cared.

 

[luj1]

DAO was boring and banal imo

 

[luj1]

Swordflight is a 10/10 module made for a 0/10 game.

If the game were truly a 0/10, the module could never have been a 10/10. You know this

Whenever you bring up NWN you're talking out of your ass a little but it's okay

 

[VerSacrum]

Codex overrates Dragon Age Origins massively imo

and it was a dark fantasy that did it better than Twitcher or Thrones. Two rare qualities. It was also one of the last fantasy RPGs before Skyrim and Dark Souls so it didn't spend all its time trying to emulate them like most fantasy games after.

Dragon Age as a setting was as unimaginative and plagiaristic as it gets. It certainly didn't do it better than A Song of Ice and Fire or The Witcher, both more plausible and compelling worlds that it ripped off massively. And the gritty, "realistic" setting is undermined by the terrible weapon and armor design. Things like comically oversized shoulder pads and warhammers just clash with that kind of aesthetic they were aiming for.
Only positive thing I can say about it is that the companions were cool. Not revolutionary, but memorable.

 

[luj1]

Dragon Age as a setting was as unimaginative and plagiaristic as it gets.

Yes

Also very weak choices for races and classes

 

[JarlFrank]

Codex overrates Dragon Age Origins massively imo

and it was a dark fantasy that did it better than Twitcher or Thrones. Two rare qualities. It was also one of the last fantasy RPGs before Skyrim and Dark Souls so it didn't spend all its time trying to emulate them like most fantasy games after.

Dragon Age as a setting was as unimaginative and plagiaristic as it gets. It certainly didn't do it better than A Song of Ice and Fire or The Witcher, both more plausible and compelling worlds that it ripped off massively. And the gritty, "realistic" setting is undermined by the terrible weapon and armor design. Things like comically oversized shoulder pads and warhammers just clash with that kind of aesthetic they were aiming for.
Only positive thing I can say about it is that the companions were cool. Not revolutionary, but memorable.

Dragon Age is a gritty fantasy world with lots of interesting lore... that has zero impact on gameplay.

"This type of magic is illegal and templars will hunt you for it!"

>use this type of magic
>nobody acknoweldges it
>you can talk to templars without them even mentioning it

Complete divorce between lore and gameplay.

 

[NecroLord]

Codex overrates Dragon Age Origins massively imo

and it was a dark fantasy that did it better than Twitcher or Thrones. Two rare qualities. It was also one of the last fantasy RPGs before Skyrim and Dark Souls so it didn't spend all its time trying to emulate them like most fantasy games after.

Dragon Age as a setting was as unimaginative and plagiaristic as it gets. It certainly didn't do it better than A Song of Ice and Fire or The Witcher, both more plausible and compelling worlds that it ripped off massively. And the gritty, "realistic" setting is undermined by the terrible weapon and armor design. Things like comically oversized shoulder pads and warhammers just clash with that kind of aesthetic they were aiming for.
Only positive thing I can say about it is that the companions were cool. Not revolutionary, but memorable.

Dragon Age is a gritty fantasy world with lots of interesting lore... that has zero impact on gameplay.

"This type of magic is illegal and templars will hunt you for it!"

>use this type of magic
>nobody acknoweldges it
>you can talk to templars without them even mentioning it

Complete divorce between lore and gameplay.

I wish Blood Magic was more fleshed out and had more consequences when using it.

 

[d1r]

Baldur's Gate 1 = Baldur's Gate 2 > Dragon Age: Origins = Star Wars: KotOR > Mass Effect 1 > Mass Effect 2 > Neverwinter Nights 1 > Dragon Age 2

 

[Cryomancer]

I wish Blood Magic was more fleshed out and had more consequences when using it.

Agreed. You can use it in front of templars, consequence free.

 

[NecroLord]

I wish Blood Magic was more fleshed out and had more consequences when using it.

Agreed. You can use it in front of templars, consequence free.

Grey Wardens are allowed to use whatever tools they need in their fight against the Darkspawn.
What I meant to say is that I wished Blood Magic had more consequences when using it, like corrupting and condemning its user, or something to that effect.

 

[Shaki]

BG2 > BG 1 > literal dogshit > everything else > NWN

 

[Vic]

I wish Blood Magic was more fleshed out and had more consequences when using it.

Agreed. You can use it in front of templars, consequence free.

Grey Wardens are allowed to use whatever tools they need in their fight against the Darkspawn.
What I meant to say is that I wished Blood Magic had more consequences when using it, like corrupting and condemning its user, or something to that effect.

you can make wynne or morrigan a blood mage, both not wardens

 

[v1rus]

wtf is wrong with yall, ranking Jade Empire so low

Ye, its utterly moronic; which is why its so fucking beautiful. IDK, I guess BG2/NWN:HoU/BG1 maybe? can be considered "good", but its fucking Bioware, you are always going to have to ignore random retardations, and accept it for "it is what it is". And of all "it is what it is" I'd much rather replay Jade Empire than anything else, and I fully beat every single Bioware game except DA:2 (lol) DAI and Andromeda. Dont think I finished SoU tho, dont know why.

Perhaps its just me, but one thing that I always consider a big positive point of Bioware games is how easy they are to get into, and relaxed to play. Systems are simple and formulaic, if you played one game, you know the basic structure of every single one, they are mostly easy, and best you can expect from the writing is your standard "2nd class sitcom" with an occasional interesting premise. All of this make them perfect "RPG-lites" in muh book, and good to play when you are in some tough spot life wise - its not completely braindead, but its not gonna overwhelm you either, in any way, thats for sure.

And out of all of those "easy lemonades", I had most fun by far with the wacky chinese fantasy. Its just so silly, in a truly beautiful way. Its not nostalgia glasses either; I played it for the first time when i was 26 i think, and it was the last Bioware game i played, if we dont count my DA1 replay and futile attempts to get into DA2.

 

[man_at_arms]

wtf is wrong with yall, ranking Jade Empire so low

Ye, its utterly moronic; which is why its so fucking beautiful. IDK, I guess BG2/NWN:HoU/BG1 maybe? can be considered "good", but its fucking Bioware, you are always going to have to ignore random retardations, and accept it for "it is what it is". And of all "it is what it is" I'd much rather replay Jade Empire than anything else, and I fully beat every single Bioware game except DA:2 (lol) DAI and Andromeda. Dont think I finished SoU tho, dont know why.

Perhaps its just me, but one thing that I always consider a big positive point of Bioware games is how easy they are to get into, and relaxed to play. Systems are simple and formulaic, if you played one game, you know the basic structure of every single one, they are mostly easy, and best you can expect from the writing is your standard "2nd class sitcom" with an occasional interesting premise. All of this make them perfect "RPG-lites" in muh book, and good to play when you are in some tough spot life wise - its not completely braindead, but its not gonna overwhelm you either, in any way, thats for sure.

And out of all of those "easy lemonades", I had most fun by far with the wacky chinese fantasy. Its just so silly, in a truly beautiful way. Its not nostalgia glasses either; I played it for the first time when i was 26 i think, and it was the last Bioware game i played, if we dont count my DA1 replay and futile attempts to get into DA2.

Jade Empire is indeed underrated, probably a result of how poorly it sold and the timing of its release (late gen Xbox title not long before the 360). I would consider it a lot more bearable than DA:O, with its washed out, brown colour scheme combined with the attempt to make it a "dark, sexy and edgy" game. An East Asian-inspired setting is also more original than "D&D but with different names and edgier".

My overall Bioware ranking would be:

BG1 > BG2 > Mass Effect 1 > KoTOR 1 > Mass Effect 2 > Jade Empire > NWN (OC) > DA:O > Mass Effect 3 > DA 2 > DA: Inquisition > MA: Andromeda > Anthem

 

[Vic]

All of this make them perfect "RPG-lites" in muh book, and good to play when you are in some tough spot life wise - its not completely braindead, but its not gonna overwhelm you either, in any way, thats for sure.

did you try DA:O on Nightmare?

 

[janior]

dragon age UI and Controls were designed by a person who never used a computer in their life

 

[9ted6]

Codex overrates Dragon Age Origins massively imo

and it was a dark fantasy that did it better than Twitcher or Thrones. Two rare qualities. It was also one of the last fantasy RPGs before Skyrim and Dark Souls so it didn't spend all its time trying to emulate them like most fantasy games after.

Dragon Age as a setting was as unimaginative and plagiaristic as it gets. It certainly didn't do it better than A Song of Ice and Fire or The Witcher, both more plausible and compelling worlds that it ripped off massively. And the gritty, "realistic" setting is undermined by the terrible weapon and armor design. Things like comically oversized shoulder pads and warhammers just clash with that kind of aesthetic they were aiming for.
Only positive thing I can say about it is that the companions were cool. Not revolutionary, but memorable.

Origins was less woke than Twitcher and Thrones and had more going on with its world.

The religions were interesting compared to the other two where religion is just universally shitty and fake, the darkspawn are more interesting than a horde of ice zombies or skeleton men, and it generally felt like a large, expansive world, where Westeros is small and confined and I don't think Witcher's setting even had a name or larger maps. It had magic without being too extreme.

Its design also wasn't meant to be one big geopolitical commentary, not so much a problem with Thrones but a problem with Witcher, though maybe the games toned down the politics from the books. Then compared to Thrones it was dark but not as stupid-dark or grim, or full of the fetish content both other settings have.

The item aesthetics are generally awful because Bioware was trying to do them Warcraft style, it's not a super interesting setting on its own, and most of its lore has nothing to do with the actual gameplay. I completely agree there. It also of course got retconned out the ass by the sequels.

 

[NecroLord]

Codex overrates Dragon Age Origins massively imo

and it was a dark fantasy that did it better than Twitcher or Thrones. Two rare qualities. It was also one of the last fantasy RPGs before Skyrim and Dark Souls so it didn't spend all its time trying to emulate them like most fantasy games after.

Dragon Age as a setting was as unimaginative and plagiaristic as it gets. It certainly didn't do it better than A Song of Ice and Fire or The Witcher, both more plausible and compelling worlds that it ripped off massively. And the gritty, "realistic" setting is undermined by the terrible weapon and armor design. Things like comically oversized shoulder pads and warhammers just clash with that kind of aesthetic they were aiming for.
Only positive thing I can say about it is that the companions were cool. Not revolutionary, but memorable.

Origins was less woke than Twitcher and Thrones and had more going on with its world.

The religions were interesting compared to the other two where religion is just universally shitty and fake, the darkspawn are more interesting than a horde of ice zombies or skeleton men, and it generally felt like a large, expansive world, where Westeros is small and confined and I don't think Witcher's setting even had a name or larger maps. It had magic without being too extreme.

Its design also wasn't meant to be one big geopolitical commentary, not so much a problem with Thrones but a problem with Witcher, though maybe the games toned down the politics from the books. Then compared to Thrones it was dark but not as stupid-dark or grim, or full of the fetish content both other settings have.

The item aesthetics are generally awful because Bioware was trying to do them Warcraft style, it's not a super interesting setting on its own, and most of its lore has nothing to do with the actual gameplay. I completely agree there. It also of course got retconned out the ass by the sequels.

Hey, man, it's great for what it is.
It doesn't reinvent the wheel or anything. It's fun. The same can't be said of its sequels...

 

[mediocrepoet]