Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Rumor: ELEX 3 cancelled, Piranha Bytes to be shut down by THQ Nordic

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,847
I think that anyone claiming that Gothic games are too niche was proven wrong by Archolos already. A mod for a 20 years old game, yet enjoying popularity most AA titles can only dream about. An actual modern Gothic done in the same spirit would have enormous sales.
 

VonMiskov

Educated
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
129
Whoa, whoa I wouldn't go so far saying Archolos was massively popular beating AA games. It had 10K players max on release on Steam. So maybe 4 times this at peak. Yeah... Only depressed Eastern Europeans play this.
 

Tavar

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Jun 6, 2020
Messages
1,055
Location
Germany
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In
I think that it was ELEX itself (not ELEX 2) which doomed PB. ELEX 2 didn't sell so poorly just because it was worse then the first game (allegedly, I have never played it) or just because it was released in a poor time slot. It sold so poorly because ELEX just isn't palatable to a lot of PB fans. I tried ELEX when it first released and couldn't get into it because it was so ugly and janky even for PB standards and because the scenario was so weird. I never bothered with ELEX 2 as a result. This seems to be a general pattern given how much lower the review numbers for ELEX 2 are then for the first game (5500 vs. 18,000). Hence, the idea to keep doing ELEX after ELEX 2 is completely retarded.
 
Last edited:

InD_ImaginE

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
5,446
Pathfinder: Wrath
I think that anyone claiming that Gothic games are too niche was proven wrong by Archolos already. A mod for a 20 years old game, yet enjoying popularity most AA titles can only dream about. An actual modern Gothic done in the same spirit would have enormous sales.

It's popular precisely for the Gothic players. Steam number of reviews of base Gothic/Gothic 2 is incomparable to Archolos because most people probably play Gothic 1/2 back then instead of buying them on Steam except for nostalgia purpose.

You can argue that Archolos "sales"/download in Steam is peak popularity of Gothic series and thus has 0 room for growth
 

Peachcurl

Cipher
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
8,913
Location
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
I think that anyone claiming that Gothic games are too niche was proven wrong by Archolos already. A mod for a 20 years old game, yet enjoying popularity most AA titles can only dream about. An actual modern Gothic done in the same spirit would have enormous sales.
Instead, we get Witcher 3 (not entirely terrible, but not scratching the Gothic itch either), and all those mostly soul-less Ubisoft-style open world rpgs. :(
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,847
I think that anyone claiming that Gothic games are too niche was proven wrong by Archolos already. A mod for a 20 years old game, yet enjoying popularity most AA titles can only dream about. An actual modern Gothic done in the same spirit would have enormous sales.

It's popular precisely for the Gothic players. Steam number of reviews of base Gothic/Gothic 2 is incomparable to Archolos because most people probably play Gothic 1/2 back then instead of buying them on Steam except for nostalgia purpose.

You can argue that Archolos "sales"/download in Steam is peak popularity of Gothic series and thus has 0 room for growth
That's a silly way of thinking. Of course a pre-Steam game won't have many Steam reviews. Hell, were it not for Archolos, I wouldn't have even known that it was on Steam at all. Aside from that, few people replay single player games after finishing them, even if they liked them. I remember liking Witcher 1 for example, yet I don't intend to ever play it again - why would I? I've already beaten it.

It is also downright humorous to think that the comparatively minor share of people who both played Gothic AND have heard of Archolos are 100% of its market. I'd be willing to bet that there are droves of people who have played and loved Gothic, yet have never heard of Archolos simply because they're not interested in mods.

On the contrary, the fact a mere mod for a 20 years old game managed to find such traction proves just how large the amount of people who'd like to play a new Gothic is.
 

Peachcurl

Cipher
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
8,913
Location
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Big shame 3 abandoned that direction
Risen 3 has some decent humor, just like Risen 2.
I genuinely cant remember any, all the conversations felt way more formulaic and bloated. Granted though I didn't play it beyond around the 12 hour point.
Risen 3 has the best joke of all PB games, though it's more of a performative joke rather than part of conversation.

Giving Patty the biggest boobs of the entire series, but making her the new main character's sister.
 

Scythifuge

Barely Literate
Joined
Jan 23, 2024
Messages
2
Big shame 3 abandoned that direction
Risen 3 has some decent humor, just like Risen 2.
I genuinely cant remember any, all the conversations felt way more formulaic and bloated. Granted though I didn't play it beyond around the 12 hour point.
Risen 3 has the best joke of all PB games, though it's more of a performative joke rather than part of conversation.

Giving Patty the biggest boobs of the entire series, but making her the new main character's sister.
I tried to play the Risen trilogy straight through. I like the first Risen and I can tolerate the 2nd one. PB chose to GASLIGHT their fans with prerelease "Gothic-like" screenshots and indicated that Risen 3 would be a return to form and move away from the pirate crap. Then, it was all pirate crap. They lied to get money from fans who PB mentally and emotionally abused and manipulated. I almost wrote them off for that, alone. Seeing small-boob Patty in Risen 1 and then the boulder-like fun bags on her in Risen 3, it ruined the suspension-of-disbelief for a game which was already ruined. I made it to the final act and just couldn't finish it. Elex was neat and can almost be forgiven because it was the first game in a new "trilogy," and they were trying different things. However, there is NO excuse for the steaming pile of digital crap that is Elex 2. Bjorn and Jenny can go straight to hell.
 

Konjad

Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
4,092
Location
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Risen 3 has the best joke of all PB games, though it's more of a performative joke rather than part of conversation.

Giving Patty the biggest boobs of the entire series, but making her the new main character's sister.
Eh, in Demonicon you could bang your booby sister regardless.
 

Ravielsk

Magister
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
1,539
  • They started something awesome with Gothic but then fucked it up.
  • They started something good with Risen but then fucked it up.
  • They started something alright with ELEX but then fucked it up.
  • Some fans out of nowhere released a free G2 total conversion mod that is at least on the same level as G1 & G2 which got outstanding reviews.
  • Publisher funds G1 remake but instead of giving it to PB, they gave it to some no-name studio.
It was just a matter of time.
There is nothing confusing about PB. Trying to sell to the Rpgcodex crowd can only get you so many copies sold. If PB wants to survive they have no choice but to make games that can appeal to the Skyrim loving normies, and it's hard to do so with indie small scale shit. So PB had to choose between going big or changing the type of games they make, and they choose to go big. Of course these people lack the ability to do that and always get pulled back down to earth.
Interestingly enough I think Spider is the one studio that mostly unconsciously ate a chunk of that Gothic pie. I have only really played Steelrising and Bound by Flame but even from those two their games feel very Gothic-like. They are not as focused on the small details or simulation aspects but they do have that strong sense of world building and design sensibility that the old Gothics had.

Its not a 1 to 1 kind of thing but Spider does get close enough to Gothic without even actively trying. The market is absolutely there but PB has been actively vacating since the early 2000s.
 

SpaceWizardz

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
1,062
Its not a 1 to 1 kind of thing but Spider does get close enough to Gothic without even actively trying
Spiders makes unapologetic KOTOR derivatives, they're not very "Gothic-like" with exception to the amount of tedious late-game backtracking.
 
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
3,158
  • They started something awesome with Gothic but then fucked it up.
  • They started something good with Risen but then fucked it up.
  • They started something alright with ELEX but then fucked it up.
  • Some fans out of nowhere released a free G2 total conversion mod that is at least on the same level as G1 & G2 which got outstanding reviews.
  • Publisher funds G1 remake but instead of giving it to PB, they gave it to some no-name studio.
It was just a matter of time.
There is nothing confusing about PB. Trying to sell to the Rpgcodex crowd can only get you so many copies sold. If PB wants to survive they have no choice but to make games that can appeal to the Skyrim loving normies, and it's hard to do so with indie small scale shit. So PB had to choose between going big or changing the type of games they make, and they choose to go big. Of course these people lack the ability to do that and always get pulled back down to earth.
Interestingly enough I think Spider is the one studio that mostly unconsciously ate a chunk of that Gothic pie. I have only really played Steelrising and Bound by Flame but even from those two their games feel very Gothic-like. They are not as focused on the small details or simulation aspects but they do have that strong sense of world building and design sensibility that the old Gothics had.

Its not a 1 to 1 kind of thing but Spider does get close enough to Gothic without even actively trying. The market is absolutely there but PB has been actively vacating since the early 2000s.
Isn't Steel Rising a souls like?
 

Kem0sabe

Arcane
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
13,093
Location
Azores Islands
  • They started something awesome with Gothic but then fucked it up.
  • They started something good with Risen but then fucked it up.
  • They started something alright with ELEX but then fucked it up.
  • Some fans out of nowhere released a free G2 total conversion mod that is at least on the same level as G1 & G2 which got outstanding reviews.
  • Publisher funds G1 remake but instead of giving it to PB, they gave it to some no-name studio.
It was just a matter of time.
There is nothing confusing about PB. Trying to sell to the Rpgcodex crowd can only get you so many copies sold. If PB wants to survive they have no choice but to make games that can appeal to the Skyrim loving normies, and it's hard to do so with indie small scale shit. So PB had to choose between going big or changing the type of games they make, and they choose to go big. Of course these people lack the ability to do that and always get pulled back down to earth.
Interestingly enough I think Spider is the one studio that mostly unconsciously ate a chunk of that Gothic pie. I have only really played Steelrising and Bound by Flame but even from those two their games feel very Gothic-like. They are not as focused on the small details or simulation aspects but they do have that strong sense of world building and design sensibility that the old Gothics had.

Its not a 1 to 1 kind of thing but Spider does get close enough to Gothic without even actively trying. The market is absolutely there but PB has been actively vacating since the early 2000s.

Spiders games close to Gothic... What kind of mental impairment are you dealing with? Looks life threatening.
 

Peachcurl

Cipher
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
8,913
Location
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
There are similarities between Spiders' games and PB's games. Both are third person action RPGs. Both tend to be quite janky. You can probably find some more small details that match.

But they are not particularly close, considering the rest of this subgenre.
 
Last edited:

thesheeep

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
9,956
Location
Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.pcgamer.com/embracer-ow...ve-itself-from-closure-dont-write-us-off-yet/

Well, I would back a project of theirs on Kickstarter, if they decided to go that way.

EDIT: fixed link
I wouldn't.

ELEX I liked, it was better than Risen2 & 3 at least, although it wasn't as good as their older games.
But ELEX II was just plain bad, nothing whatsoever learned from the mistakes of the first one; the first PB game I did not finish.

That trajectory would NOT make me put money down for a kickstarter.
 

Peachcurl

Cipher
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
8,913
Location
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
elex2punch.gif
 

notpl

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Messages
1,389
I think that anyone claiming that Gothic games are too niche was proven wrong by Archolos already. A mod for a 20 years old game, yet enjoying popularity most AA titles can only dream about. An actual modern Gothic done in the same spirit would have enormous sales.

It's popular precisely for the Gothic players. Steam number of reviews of base Gothic/Gothic 2 is incomparable to Archolos because most people probably play Gothic 1/2 back then instead of buying them on Steam except for nostalgia purpose.

You can argue that Archolos "sales"/download in Steam is peak popularity of Gothic series and thus has 0 room for growth
This is a ridiculous claim - Archolos is a mod for a game that predates steam by several years, many of us installed it over our original CD version of the game. Plenty more I'm sure pirated it or used the GOG version. On Archolos's release their hosting for the non-steam mod installation files went down almost immediately because they had several hundred thousand more downloads than they were expecting. Even with all that, apparently 70-75% of their downloads were from Poland. So despite being one of the biggest and most successful mods ever made, being kurwa still seems to have hampered it a bit and limited its global appeal. If the mod had been fully designed and acted in English, German or Russian (the first because it's simply a bigger language with more reach, the latter two because those countries have bigger populations of gothic fans specifically) then presumably it could've done even better. There really is no upward limit for how well a competently-made open-world fantasy RPG could do - it's something people desperately want, and no one seems to be able to fucking make.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom