SoZ will have perma death

[Warden]

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/neverwin ... es;title;1


"... the new death system, which forces you to resurrect your fallen party members or have them healed in a town rather than simply bringing them back to life at the end of the current combat."

And from the NWN2 boards:

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vi ... &forum=128

Quote: Posted 08/22/08 00:39 (GMT) by Khaveen
I wonder if fallen party members will have -1 to -10 hitpoints where you could heal them from the brink of death before they fully die.

Jeff Husges: It's actually -1 to (Max HP/2), similar to 4E.

Yep.. if you have 100 HP you'll have to drop to -50 to actually "die". I wonder if you lose HP on your own after you're knocked to 0 HP and if monsters keep attacking you when you're down. Because if monsters stop attacking you (and you don't rapidly lose HP) nobody will really die. On the other hand, if they do keep attacking you - all characters will become amazing loads-of-HP tanks. Monsters will have to beat 150 and not 100 HP for example.


I hope, I really hope those priests in town won't heal and raise dead for free. That would make the new death system pointless. Let it be 100 gold per character level. So if I want to raise/heal a lvl 7 char I'd have to pay 700 gp. Mkey?

 

[Jasede]

Yeah sure they raise dead for free...

Anyway, good. I love 3.5 rules, fuck the haters, but I always thought -10 HP was really too little leeway. You could be a pretty buff level 6 fighter with 40 HP (unlucky HP rolls) and die in 1 hit to some critical. Blargh.

 

[Warden]

Yeah sure they raise dead for free...

This was sarcastic, or? Because in NWN2 you have priests who heal for free on every corner and the spell heal is quite more powerful than raise dead. Actually, it's not even the heal spell - but a cheese that heals you of all bad effects and gets you to max HP. What was the point of your rolly eyes?

Anyway, good. I love 3.5 rules, fuck the haters, but I always thought -10 HP was really too little leeway. You could be a pretty buff level 6 fighter with 40 HP (unlucky HP rolls) and die in 1 hit to some critical. Blargh.

So? In nwn2 you get max hp on level up.

 

[Jasede]

What? I am not playing this POS if I can't disable that. WTF.

I bet there's some config file where I can disable it, right? Or a hard difficulty?

 

[Black]

Kinda confused on this one.
While I like making the game harder and less like jrpgs, NWN's combat is fucking chaotic and often I can't even tell where my minions are so they can die quite a lot.

(ofc it wouldn't be an issue if it had turn-based combat)

 

[Warden]

What? I am not playing this POS if I can't disable that. WTF.

I bet there's some config file where I can disable it, right? Or a hard difficulty?

What do you mean? Free healing or max hit points? I suppose the latter.. It could be easily modded - but I'm not aware of such a mod.

 

[Jasede]

There's no use playing a D&D game when it has maximum HP each level. BAH.

It's... not traditional.

 

[Warden]

I'd like to get half the class' max HP + 1 - fixed. It would be very frustrating to get 1 HP for a few levels.. if you decided you won't cheat with reload.

So a fighter would get 6 HP on level up.

 

[Lumpy]

Well, the game is supposed to be balanced for max HP every level, so it shouldn't really matter. Compared to, say, modding in max HP in PS:T or BG, which probably completely broke those games.
Here, you get arbitrary number x instead of y. That's fine with me.

 

[Warden]

Well, the game is supposed to be balanced for max HP every level

It was obviously not balanced with that in mind, Lumpy.

 

[Lumpy]

Well, the game is supposed to be balanced for max HP every level

It was obviously not balanced with that in mind, Lumpy.

How so? If you are given max HP every level up, the encounters are calibrated in light of that fact, so as to achieve intended difficulty. This intended difficulty may not be what you want, but that's a different issue.

 

[Warden]

How so? If you are given max HP every level up, the encounters are calibrated in light of that fact, so as to achieve intended difficulty. This intended difficulty may not be what you want, but that's a different issue.

How hard is to notice that the encounters in NWN2 were not calibrated for max hp parties?

You mean.. the game will auto-balance itself if you give pcs and party members max hp at level up?

Yes, monsters and enemies might have also max hp.. but this doesn't balance it at all. You are exponentially stronger with all the buffs and protections available when you have 100 hp rather than 50.
And no, if you're wondering, monsters did not have max hp. All succubi in the game had 30 HP (with 1-2 exceptions) for example.

 

[Lumpy]

No. I mean the encounters will be hard enough so that the intended difficulty is obtained with the player having a max HP party.

 

[Warden]

No. I mean the encounters will be hard enough so that the intended difficulty is obtained with the player having a max HP party.

Yes. IF YOU PROPERLY BALANCE IT FOR PARTY MEMBERS HAVING MAXED HP, WHICH WASN'T THE CASE IN NWN2.

 

[Wyrmlord]

There's no use playing a D&D game when it has maximum HP each level. BAH.

It's... not traditional.

So? It's not like the game is much true to D&D in the first place, so it doesn't matter much anyway. :wink:

 

[Lumpy]

BIG FUCKING LETTERS

You mean it was too easy. Why would you assume that was an unintended consequence of maxed HP, rather than a conscious design decision? If HP had been random or halved in NWN2, rest assured that the encounters would have been even easier.

 

[Warden]

BIG FUCKING LETTERS

You mean it was too easy. Why would you assume that was an unintended consequence of maxed HP, rather than a conscious design decision? If HP had been random or halved in NWN2, rest assured that the encounters would have been even easier.

Of course I need to use BIG FUCKING LETTERS for you to understand them more easily.

I would assume that because there are many factors which make the game much more easy if you have double HP. Damage spells didn't get the max damage feature for example. The player has healing potions available - if the monster can't kill him fast enough (max hp, remember) he can endlessly drink them. There are many reasons why it's imbalanced.. but you'd have to be intelligent like me to notice them on the fly.

It's just much easier (with all the buffs, protections and stuff which I mentioned) for the player when he has more HP - more space to act.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Random HP is not to my tastes. Especially in the 3rd Edition it leads to ridiculous things.

And max HP is not what made NWN2 so easy. There were plenty of more important factors, like how you rarely faced enemies who'd properly use stealth or buffs. And how often you could rest uninterrupted.

But anyway, this is great news. Now Raise spells will have proper uses.

 

[deuxhero]

You act like this is news.


One of the devs has already posted here on the codex and mentioned he just finished codeing a new death system.


And this isn't Perma death, this is "actual death" Perma death is a rogue like, or at least Jagged Alliance 2/Fire Emblem/whatever

 

[Raapys]

This is great. Out with the next-gen 'Battle is over, everyone get up!' feature.

 

[Anthony Davis]

Actually, both the player characters AND the monsters in NWN2, NX1, and NX2 have max hitpoints.

The only exception to this that I am aware of is the tutorial levels that were West Harbor.

 

[King Crispy]

Anything to add more tension and strategic value to combat.

Now to get them to restrict resting...

 

[Raapys]

I'm not such a big fan of restricting resting, since it puts spellcasters at a severe disadvantage compared to non-spellcasters.

 

[King Crispy]

I really liked the way that Markus Schlegel handled it in his NWN2 module, Pool of Radiance Remastered. In order to rest anywhere outside of an inn, you had to carry with you one or more supply kits, which had fairly significant weight. Using one would create a campfire and you could rest there unlimited times until the fire 'burned out', which might be several hours in game time. Each time you created a site, one of your kits would be used up.

I just detest unlimited resting because it rampantly encourages the cheezing of almost any encounter.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

But as said, that puts high-level fighters at a ridiculous advantage. It needs some serious tweaking to find a perfect balance...