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Taking a trip down memory lane

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Since I have three weeks off until classes start up again, I thought I would go back and play the classics, and some that aren't so classic. I will post impressions if anyone is interested (probably people who have never played any of these before). I'm trying to go over ones I haven't played, but am also going to go back to a few I haven't played in over a decade. Yes, there will be pics.

I'm starting old school. Real old school. Ultima I old school, along with Wasteland and Bard's Tale 1 (if I can stomach it, I couldn't the last time I played, but I was about 4 years old). I was thinking about playing the first Wizardry games, but I might just skip to VII. I plan on doing Dungeon Master pretty early as well.

I've got a whole list of potential games, but I'm taking it one step at a time. For the games I don't have on CD I'll be getting from Abandonia or "other" sites.

Any other suggestions are welcome.


First up: Ultima I. God help me.
 

Ammar

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Played Magic Candle yet? First one is a must-play, the other parts are more average. Star Saga is also worth a playthrough.
 

JarlFrank

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You should play Planet's Edge. I always wanted to play it, but I never got it to run with optimal speed on DOS-Box [it always was too fast on my PC and made it extremely annoying to play].
 
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Okay, Magic Candle, Planet's Edge, Star Saga 1 & 2, and Amberstar added to the list. Ambermoon looks to be in German only, and I don't know of any good sites that host it. I planned on revisiting Darklands anyways. It's a good game.

I want to visit the early Ultimas and Wizardrys for a history lesson, but mostly just so I can say that I've played them.
 

Fat Dragon

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Have you ever tried Wizard's Crown? Fun old game with good challenging combat. Not much for story though, but the well designed and detailed tactical combat makes up for that. Just make sure you have a lot of free-time when playing, a single combat encounter can last longer than 15 minutes. It also has a sequel, Eternal Dagger, though I've never gotten around to playing it.

What other games are on your list besides the ones you mentioned?
 
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Actually... I have. I didn't think about replaying it though, but now I will give it a shot.

Here's my list. Obviously I don't plan on completing all these games, or even playing through half-way, but at least I will be able to make some observations that might lend some insight to people who don't know how these old game actually played. I haven't found any real good source for a quick review.

Al Quadim
Albion
Amberstar
Arcanum
Arx Fatalis
Bard's Tale 1
Blood Omen Legacy of Kain
Breath of Fire 1 - 2
Conan The Cimmerian
Darklands
Deus Ex
Dungeon Master 1 - 2
ES Arena
ES Battlespire
ES Daggerfall
Eye of the Beholder 1 - 3
Fallout 1 - 2
Final Fantasy V
Four Crystals of Trazere
Gladiator
Heroes of Might and Magic
Ishar 1 - 3
Legend of Zelda: Adventure of Link
Krondor
Lands of Lore
Landstalker
Magic Candle
MegaTraveller 1 - 2
Menzoberranzan
Might and Magic 1 - 3
Moebius
Moonstone - A Hard Days Knight
Phantasy Star IV
Planet's Edge
Radical Dreamers
Realms of Arkania 1 - 2
Shining Force
Star Saga 1 - 2
The Immortal
Ultima 1 - 7
Ultima Martian Dreams
Wasteland
Windwalker
Wizardry 1- 7
Wizards Crown
World of Xeen

I think that's all of them. They currently exist as a series of links, folders, and zip files, so I might have missed a few. Yes, some of those are JRPGs.
 

Fat Dragon

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Damned good list. I've played most of those except some of the jrpgs and that Zelda game.

Another oldie you should consider checking out if you haven't already is Knights of Legend. I finished this game for the first time a few weeks ago, damned fun game. Combat is a real blast and pretty strategic. You have to predict what your enemy is going to do when his turn comes using a foresight ability and plan your moves accordingly while also efficiently managing your fatigue level. There's also a visibility stat that limits what your character can "see" and it's improved if you're using flying units. It was fun, but like Wizard's Crown can be pretty damned difficult at times.

Only problem I had with the game is its save feature, you can only save at rest areas.

*sigh* I fucking miss Origin Systems.
 

Binary

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OK everyone jumps in with their 2c and sooner than you know, the OP has a million dollars...

If you want to start with classics START FROM THE BEGINNING

1979: Akalabeth and Temple of Apshai

GO!
 

FrancoTAU

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Actually, the unreleased English version of Ambermoon was leaked a couple years after the devs went bankrupt.

http://thalion.exotica.org.uk/

You have to use an Amiga emulator and not DosBox. If you don't like Amberstar than don't bother jumping through all the hoops to set it up.

And it's not piracy since nothing is leaving an inventory. In fact, it's abandonware from a developer that went out of business so there isn't even an inventory.
 

Shoelip

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Sorry, memory lane has been closed off for 'innovation'. Come back in a few weeks for the new, improved, Next gen memory lane. Now with [insert next gen cliche]!
 
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Fat Dragon said:
Damned good list. I've played most of those except some of the jrpgs and that Zelda game.

Another oldie you should consider checking out if you haven't already is Knights of Legend. I finished this game for the first time a few weeks ago, damned fun game. Combat is a real blast and pretty strategic. You have to predict what your enemy is going to do when his turn comes using a foresight ability and plan your moves accordingly while also efficiently managing your fatigue level. There's also a visibility stat that limits what your character can "see" and it's improved if you're using flying units. It was fun, but like Wizard's Crown can be pretty damned difficult at times.

Only problem I had with the game is its save feature, you can only save at rest areas.

I just downloaded the knights game. I'll check it out along with Wizard's Crown once I'm finished with Ultima I, before I move on.

"That Zelda game" also has a horrible save feature - so when I play it I'm going to cheat and use the emulator's savestate function. You can only save after you die, at which point you lose some of your gained experience. You can also save if you have two controllers and use some odd button press combination. It's really fucked up - but it's a fun game, and unlike all the other Zeldas, it's an RPG.

Binary said:
If you want to start with classics START FROM THE BEGINNING

1979: Akalabeth and Temple of Apshai

GO!

I'm playing Ultima I. It's pretty much the same thing.

FrancoTAU said:
Actually, the unreleased English version of Ambermoon was leaked a couple years after the devs went bankrupt.

http://thalion.exotica.org.uk/

You have to use an Amiga emulator and not DosBox. If you don't like Amberstar than don't bother jumping through all the hoops to set it up.

And it's not piracy since nothing is leaving an inventory. In fact, it's abandonware from a developer that went out of business so there isn't even an inventory.

Awesome, thanks. Even if I don't like Amberstar I'll try it out, but that's way down the line. I don't consider abandonware piracy.
 
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A couple more ideas:

- 2400 AD - skill-based gameplay; fun gadgets; futuristic setting
- Deathlord - kind of like an advanced Ultima III, but with a Japanese theme; large world with lots of big dungeons; hardcore (ie. the game saves if a character dies)
- Demon's Winter - Gold Box style combat; simple adventure-like puzzles; nice skill system
- Dark Heart of Uukrul - more Gold Box style combat; cool puzzles
- Phantasie III - decent combat options with targeted body locations
- Shadowrun (Genesis) - very good translation of the PnP ruleset
 

buccaroobonzai

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Some more:

AD&D Darksun
Battletech
Ishar 1-3
Lords of Midnight
Citadel of Vras
Alien Logic
Worlds of Ultima Savage Empire
Centauri Alliance
Alien Fires 2199 AD
Faery Tale Adventure 1 & 2
Midwinter
Twilight 2000
Captive
Buck Rogers 1 & 2
Sentinel Worlds
Mines of Titan
Space 1889
Star Command
Hard Nova
Circuit's edge
Autoduel
Sun Dog Frozen Legacy
Atlantis (German rpg form 1988)

Adventure RPGs:
Chamber of the sci mutant priestess
B.A.T.
Roadwar 2000

Amiga emulator required:
Chaos in Andromeda: Eyes of the Eagle
Federation Quest 1: BSS Jane Seymour
Paranoia Complex
Perihelion
Corporation
Liberation
 
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Deathlord - kind of like an advanced Ultima III, but with a Japanese theme; large world with lots of big dungeons; hardcore (ie. the game saves if a character dies)

Ooooh that sounds nice. :D I think I'll do that next, since I have no means of getting Ultima II and III.

Ultima... right. I wrote a review for it. I went out and tried to find a place where I could get some reviews for all these old RPGs. I was interested in how they played. However, there is no central source out there. I think other people are like me as well, but I have some free time on my hands. So, I figure I'll play them myself and post what exactly the games are about. I will try refraining from drawing connections to later games in the series, or any other RPGs that came after.

Chefe Reviews Ultima I

ultima_001.png
ultima_002.png
ultima_003.png

ultima_004.png
ultima_005.png
ultima_007.png


Manual
http://ultima.gogab.com/u1a-97.zip
Strategy and Keyboard Commands
http://www.rpgclassics.com/shrines/pc/u ... ands.shtml

Upon first playing Ultima I, you might feel like driving your head through a wall, which is why reading the manual and having the list of keyboard commands handy is an absolute necessity. The story boils down to you being a stranger in this magical land who must defeat the evil wizard bent on worldwide destruction.

There are a multitude of keyboard commands, but the only ones that are really necessary are A for attack, B for entering vehicles, E for entering places, X for exiting vehicles, U for unlocking chests, R for equipping stuff, and Q for save. Character creation isn't anything to write home about. For one thing, charisma is useless as you cannot talk to anyone except shopkeeps and kings. It does give you a discount on buying items, but since you'll be swimming in money that's not a problem. Speaking of which, there are many stores, but only a handful of items available for purchase in each category (except for food, which there is only one), and there is no description of them or their power anywhere. Wisdom, I'm guessing, helps with priest spells, but I couldn't find any. Since combat is turn based, and everyone has ONE turn, I don't see a point in agility.

Gameplay can be addicting, but it's not that compelling. Your race and class provide some stat boosts, but that's it. Anyone can cast spells, although I don't know why you would want to, since spells are really one-time-use scrolls with no descriptions. There is no overworld map or dungeon map. The overworld map is not that much of a problem, but the dungeons are all pseudo-3D wireframe. Going further in a dungeon is not something you want to do because it's impossible to get out without great luck. In fact, because of the health system, it's detrimental to do so! This brings me to my next point. You don't need to go further than the first room anyways. Enemies randomly spawn all the time - and I mean all the time. You could run back and forth down the same hallway and be accosted by bats, rangers, and thiefs, one after the other. Chests and coffins (same thing as chests, but require you to use O to open them) are randomly generated when you use a ladder (the only means of dungeon level-to-level and dungeon-to-overworld conveyance).

Can you see where I'm going with this? I didn't even mention the best, and wierdest, part. You gain a certain amount of health back when you exit the dungeon based on the amount of enemies you kill. There doesn't appear to be any upper limit to the amount of health you can have. Also, since enemies on the overworld are way too tough for you to handle, dungeons are the only places where you can gain experience. Attacking is simply a matter of mashing the A key over and over. Therefore, there is only one way to play this game. You enter a dungeon, run up and down the first hallway (and maybe the hallway next to it, if you're feeling adventurous), mash A whenever you run into an enemy, then after killing a few exit the dungeon and immediately re-enter. Rinse and repeat. Unless your keyboard is broken, you'll end up with hundreds of more hitpoints than when you first entered the dungeon. You can also buy hitpoints from kings (lolwut?), but because of the aforementioned method it's pointless.

You also gain money from killing enemies, and it goes up faster than your hitpoints. You can use money to buy weapons, armor, food, and transportation. Weapons and armor, as I already said, are a very limited selection, so you should have the best gear in the game by your second shop visit. Food is something you stock up on early on, then forget completely about. You consume a unit of food every step (or every few steps if using a vehicle), and I guess you die or something if you run out, though I didn't bother trying. At the transportation counter, you can buy everything from a horse to a space shuttle. I'm not kidding. Every little shop in every little town has a space shuttle for purchase. You use the space shuttle to, suprise suprise, go into space, where you shoot some objects that are required to beat the game, and try to dock in an area one pixel wide. In towns, there are also pubs where you can buy ale, but as far as I can tell it doesn't do anything. Also in towns you'll occasionally get a message that a jester or bard says something, but they always say the same line and it doesn't make much sense. More miscellanous stuff includes money being divided up into gold, silver, and copper, which in itself is a good thing, but the full numerical amount of your money is always displayed on screen, so there's no point in it.

Death is a minor inconvenience. You are immediately resurrected, but have no money, no weapon, and 99 hitpoints. You can avoid this by saving (just hit Q) alot. You can save anywhere, even in the middle of battle (well, actually you cannot save in dungeons). Unless you're a true masochist, there is no reason why you would ever continue with a character that just died.

What else? Oh, right, quests. You're given such noble tasks as killing a gelatinous cube and finding a grave. You go up to a king and hit S for service, then he'll say something along the lines of "Go kill a gelatinous cube, and don't return until you've done so!" You are given no direction of where to find any of these monsters or places (hint, hint, they're in the lower levels of dungeons - randomly generated of course, so cross your fingers if you feel like completing these pointless quests). That's it.

There is no sound except the old IBM bleeps and bloops. You can turn off these annoyances by hitting N. Graphics on the overworld let you differentiate from objects, locations, and critters. Dungeons are masses of black with some white lines, but there's not a unique line to tell you which room you're in, and you cannot leave piles of loot around so you cannot create any markers for yourself. There are no wierd pastel colors, so I give the overworld graphics an B+ and the dungeon graphics an F-.

Ultima I can be a fun divergance for an afternoon, but doesn't really go beyond further exploration. I found hitting the A key and gaining virtual points being very addicting. I give it a 2/10. I didn't bother completing it. In case you were wondering, I was a dwarf fighter named Chief.

Thoughts?
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
You have three weeks?

That'll be enough for Wizardry 1 on your first try...
 

SlavemasterT

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Chefe said:
Thoughts?
That game sounds horrible. Yet, I feel a debt of gratitude for you playing and writing about it in depth, since I had heard of it being some kind of grandsire of CRPGs but never cared enough to look into it myself. So, thanks, and sorry.
 
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Jasede said:
You have three weeks?

That'll be enough for Wizardry 1 on your first try...

Oh, trust me. I'm dreading it. I've got some good material, so I figure it won't be that bad. I'm debating on whether to start Wizardry 1 tomorrow or Might and Magic 1. I was going to do Deathlord, but I don't feel like messing with the C64 emulator right now. I'd like to work my way up you know - start with the early stuff and head on forward.

SlavemasterT said:
Chefe said:
Thoughts?
That game sounds horrible. Yet, I feel a debt of gratitude for you playing and writing about it in depth, since I had heard of it being some kind of grandsire of CRPGs but never cared enough to look into it myself. So, thanks, and sorry.

Thanks. I figure having an easy reference somewhere would be good for people to get a general idea of how the game played. Sure most people don't care enough to look into them, but keeping some history will probably be good in the long run - for references. Or something like that.
 

MisterStone

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Flux_Capacitor said:
A couple more ideas:

- 2400 AD - skill-based gameplay; fun gadgets; futuristic setting
- Deathlord - kind of like an advanced Ultima III, but with a Japanese theme; large world with lots of big dungeons; hardcore (ie. the game saves if a character dies)
- Demon's Winter - Gold Box style combat; simple adventure-like puzzles; nice skill system
- Dark Heart of Uukrul - more Gold Box style combat; cool puzzles
- Phantasie III - decent combat options with targeted body locations
- Shadowrun (Genesis) - very good translation of the PnP ruleset


Man, Deathlord was both a work of art and a device of torture. I wrote about it a long while back:

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14380&highlight=deathlord

2400 A.D. (by Origin) was a pretty f'ing cool game for its time (I played it on the Apple II), though kind of small. It is not turn based, and is set in a single, continuous, massive futuristic city map complete with subway tunnels, hidden areas, and hundreds of NPCs that can talk to you. It has tons of kickass puzzles, and does not restrict movement around the world much. One thing that I remember is that it had a subway that could run you over, which would send you to the hospital. All of the sweetest items in the game have to be assembled from parts that you collect from around the city. Pretty fun game.

Autoduel was another fun Origin game, though its more of a twitch game than a RPG... almost no RPG elements beyond running courier missions. Still, it was fun to customize vehicles an the like.

Another Origin game that almost no one but me liked was Moebius and also its sequel Windwalker. The first game was very wierd- it was tiled based (it had nice artwork considering the weak graphics), you were this ninja-dude who had to travel through various planes and defeat the ultimate warlord badguy. The game was really more like a roguelike in some ways than a RPG. When you encountered someone, you had to go into a karateka-style action sequence fight with your bare hands or a sword. But you could also throw ninja stars at people on the worldmap and swing your weapon at them and sometimes cut them down without an encounter. Unfortunately, the game does not really have char dev options although it does have stats and inventory. It also had a very active environment- the map featured weather, a day night cycle, water with currents, and so on, and it used all of these elements in its puzzles. There was one cool part where you had to catch a demon, but you could only do it right when the sun is rising, otherwise it would kick your ass and give you a nasty curse.

Windwalker had most of the elements of the first game, but more in-depth NPC interaction and other RPG elements. In this game, there is a part where you actually become a Buddhist (not actually called that) monk by living in a monastery for a couple of days. Doesn't sound like fun, but I have yet to see anything like it in another game. It had a lot of neat puzzles and the like based on Chinese religion and folklore (the first game being set in some kind of pseudo-Japan-like setting). The game did poorly in the market, however, because it had C64/Apple graphics at a time when the Amiga and VGA graphics games had been on the market for at least a couple of years... I think Origin dumped it and other games (Space Rogue, for instance) on the market when it switched to developing for other systems. These two games were fun for me, but I can't promise anyone else will like them.
 
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MisterStone said:
Man, Deathlord was both a work of art and a device of torture. I wrote about it a long while back:

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=14380&highlight=deathlord
Yeah, what you wrote is pretty close to what I remembered. Another odd thing was that each character could only hold one of each item type. If you find a new item, you would have to replace one of your character's items with it. However, there was no way of comparing it to what you already had, and the game and manual gave little information on items. It was always a gamble. So, basically I found it best to just have one of my characters in the back row naked. I think the closest I came to beating it was something like finding 3 words and 4 items. I believe the game said there are 7 words and 6 essential items, but another (the Blue Crystal) is effectively required.

Also, if anyone plans on playing it, make sure you have the manual. A lot of the important information is in Japanese Pinyin, like character races, classes and spells. The spell list is essential (as I recall, you have to type in the full spell name to cast a spell; annoying, I know). Making a party without it will be difficult. The races and classes are pretty D&D-ish if you read the manual descriptions for each, though.

MisterStone said:
2400 A.D. (by Origin) was a pretty f'ing cool game for its time (I played it on the Apple II), though kind of small. It is not turn based, and is set in a single, continuous, massive futuristic city map complete with subway tunnels, hidden areas, and hundreds of NPCs that can talk to you. It has tons of kickass puzzles, and does not restrict movement around the world much. One thing that I remember is that it had a subway that could run you over, which would send you to the hospital. All of the sweetest items in the game have to be assembled from parts that you collect from around the city. Pretty fun game.
Wasn't the game a kind of pseudo turn-based? Like in some of the Ultimas, if you didn't move for a couple seconds, a turn would pass. So, while it wasn't really turn-based, its not real-time, either.

MisterStone said:
Windwalker had most of the elements of the first game, but more in-depth NPC interaction and other RPG elements. In this game, there is a part where you actually become a Buddhist (not actually called that) monk by living in a monastery for a couple of days. Doesn't sound like fun, but I have yet to see anything like it in another game. It had a lot of neat puzzles and the like based on Chinese religion and folklore (the first game being set in some kind of pseudo-Japan-like setting). The game did poorly in the market, however, because it had C64/Apple graphics at a time when the Amiga and VGA graphics games had been on the market for at least a couple of years... I think Origin dumped it and other games (Space Rogue, for instance) on the market when it switched to developing for other systems. These two games were fun for me, but I can't promise anyone else will like them.
I played that game a fair amount, but didn't ever beat it. If I remember right, it also had an Ultima 4 like moral system, although much more simplistic. I think you got sent to Hell or something if you screwed around too much. Combat is real-time, from a side-view, where you use martial arts to beat up the bad guys. It seemed I would either rip apart the opponent, or he'd tear me a new one; don't recall seeing much in between, for some reason.
 

FrancoTAU

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Chefe, I dig the mini Lets Play/reviews. Keep 'em coming. Are you doing them chronologically?

I did try to warn you about the Ultima 1-3. The next two are still pretty painful, but graphically and character creation get a big kick in the ass. The story becomes much more like a bad LSD trip too.

It's been awhile since I played the first 5 Wizardries, but I'd have to imagine they haven't aged very well. They're straight ahead dungeon crawlers that are difficult. I'd only recommend playing them so you can post up your thoughts for the lulz.
 

Binary

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Carrie Underwood said:
Binary said:
If you want to start with classics START FROM THE BEGINNING

1979: Akalabeth and Temple of Apshai

GO!

I'm playing Ultima I. It's pretty much the same thing.

You FAIL at RPGs.

One is a fantasy dungeon crawler
Another is a fantasy/sci-fi explorable RPG

FrancoTAU said:
I did try to warn you about the Ultima 1-3. The next two are still pretty painful, but graphically and character creation get a big kick in the ass. The story becomes much more like a bad LSD trip too.

You FAIL at RPGs too.

Ultima 2 is about as crap as it gets and a total pain to finish. Ultima 3 is most probably buggy on the IBM PC version (almost impossible for a boat to spawn), but the OP will never get there. The story is much better than the previous two as well

SlavemasterT said:
That game sounds horrible. Yet, I feel a debt of gratitude for you playing and writing about it in depth, since I had heard of it being some kind of grandsire of CRPGs but never cared enough to look into it myself. So, thanks, and sorry.

You FAIL at both RPGs and comprehension of what we write in this forum.

It's Ultimas 4/6/7/Underworld that get the praise. Oh Ultimas 1-2-3 were pretty good for their time, but better games came after as Lord British always managed to improve the quality. That stopped with Ultima 7 (part 2) unfortunately.



Now that I've delivered a boatload of FAIL, I'm heading out of this topic
 

Ammar

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Binary said:
It's Ultimas 4/6/7/Underworld that get the praise. Oh Ultimas 1-2-3 were pretty good for their time, but better games came after as Lord British always managed to improve the quality. That stopped with Ultima 7 (part 2) unfortunately.

You missed Ultima 5 and Serpent's Isle is still one of the best CRPGs that exist. Only with U8 does the degeneration of the series begin - though U8 is still playworthy.
 

Korgan

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Dark Heart of Uukrul is SO full of win. One of the best dungeon crawlers evar, with nice graphics, puzzles, and great fluff.

Drutho, God of the Underworld, Goddess of Stealth, Seducer of the Earth Spirits, Queen of Corruption, Ethereal Hermaphrodite, Demon Lover, Lord of the Portals, the youngest of the godes, hides far from the light of the older gods. Within the lowermost caverns of Lithane, Temple of Darkness, Drutho's Priests toil to supplicate their god. The work of these shaven Priests has made Drutho grant these Prayers to all who recognize his/her dominion in the dark kingdoms.

UMESH Knowledge Without Wisdom

Drutho, O Worm of the Deep,
Call forth the meaning of these words;
Pass your darkest light over their script,
That they will yield their meaning to me.

Fshofth, Invisible Mage, Cold Walker, Thief of the Red Cities, Holder of Mysteries, Guardian of the Spirits, Chief of the Eagles, is a strange god. The wild dictates of his worship seem hardly those of a god, and are understood by few. Of all his Prayers these
are those that seem to have some chance of being answered by this Master. The untranslatable Prayer of Lairian is included; the Priest who can harness this Prayer would be powerful indeed. None of the Priests of Fshofth have managed to gain its deep secrets.

Fshofth, hard at the kauri branch, a bird dips;
Takes honey from the silvered flowers, and stops,
Troubled by a dark mirage, far in the forest.
Your glass will shatter the foundations of the dream.

You actually need these prayers to play the game. Truly, this is the lost 80's High Fantasy! Awesome stuff.
 

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