The Black Hound - dead?

[MetalCraze]

question to those who know what it is of course.
for those who don't know - it is supposed to be a strongly character-driven role-playing module for NWN2 based on concept docs of Black Isle's Project Jefferson. The level-cap was set as 8 without any possible exp grinding to reach it quickly. The maker of this module was (?) Josh Sawyer - the lead designer of Obsidian.
moar info: http://theblackhound.googlepages.com/

Josh have said some time ago that he will release it not long after the MotB expansion... but the last news it seems stuck at the beginning of 2007 everywhere.

can such promising module be dead now?

 

[Elwro]

I fear so myself.

 

[Norfleet]

I see no evidence that such a thing has ever existed. It seems like nothing more than lies and propaganda.

 

[Volrath]

Sawyer said it would take years before this would be released.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

I think it will come out at one point. Josh has already put much work into tweaking the ruleset for this module: regrouping weapon categories, making armor to grant damage reduction, creating epithet feats. Still, he is an Aliens RPG lead designer now, so 2009 is probably the earliest possible release date. My hopes will die only if the official site goes down.

 

[ricolikesrice]

...

is it just me or does NWN2 modding seem slow in general ?

i check the vault every 3 days for new stuff but aside from H&C there wasnt a single good module since MOTB, or ? (not counting 1-3 hours modules)

and aside from ruleset tweaks like new classes and that.... custom content is also seriously lacking compared to NWN1, of course that might boil down to higher standards (i could probably "paint" a custom face that looked good in NWN1, no chance for doing the same for NWN2.... just as an example ) but then again that doesnt explain why i ve already seen lots of good looking models for Crysis which is out far shorter and has far higher graphics standards then NWN2.

looking really forward to purgatorio but other then that, NWN2 seems pretty un-promising in terms of mods so far. Thought the release of MOTB would create a NWN2-Custom Content Boom but unfortunately that didnt happen.

 

[Texas Red]

Maybe because NWN 2 is just not fun to play?

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Maybe because NWN 2 is just not fun to play?

That doesn't explain why the original NWN spawned so many modules.

 

[ghostdog]

As I recall about the NWN2 toolset each new patch changes many things so many modders are waiting for a final patch or something to start modding. Also I'm sure that a lot less people have actually bothered to finish NWN2 since it has that horrible interface and camera, while NWN1 was a lot more smooth in those areas.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Just what is the fucking deal with GUI and camera? I use the default settings and can't understand what people complain about.

 

[Wilco]

Just what is the fucking deal with GUI and camera? I use the default settings and can't understand what people complain about.

GUI was annoying because it was a big change from the original's setup. You automatically expect to find the buttons in the same place as the originals but they aren't where they were 'supposed' to be (or not there at all). Camera is fine, same as the original for the most part and better because of more options, but people have been playing WoW alot and I guess that's where the comparison comes from.

 

[ghostdog]

Just what is the fucking deal with GUI and camera? I use the default settings and can't understand what people complain about.

1.The interface is just not good enough, right click to menu then right click to submenu to choose an action that should be easier accessed. The mini map isn't helping and you can't hotkey many important actions. Also, swapping party members can be done only in the tavern (stupid since the story seem to tell that they all follow you around your adventures and they all take your experience) and that makes swapping items with them a big nuisance. I've spent almost 30% of the time I've played micromanaging items. Maybe some people like this GUI in general, but I find it inadequate.

2. Camera ... the camera is just horrible, no wonder they have tried to change it many times during the patches , but it still has many problems. They tried to give you many ways to see and play the game but they are all broken. Especially if you try to play close up from an over the shoulder kind of camera, you just can't, the game is unplayable that way. The only real camera option that is playable is the long isometric view, but that still has many faults. The biggest problem is that the buildings constantly get in your way jerking the camera distance close and then far again , not to mention the fact that many time the camera gets stuck behind some roof top or, balcony. There isn't a default distance you can give the camera and you must always adjust it according to where you are. Finally, everytime you go into a new area the camera readjusts it's view by itself and you must readjust it again.

3. I also forgot to mention the completely bumb AI. The default AI is just stupid and the way the battles are played in NWN2 they call for party members to play with their scripts, they are not like BG battles where playing all members by yourself is a must. When will all those game makers understand that you should have the option to tell each member of your party which spells to use by themselves and which not? Which feats they should use by themselves and which not? One by one...Is it so hard goddamit?

Of course there are mods that help with some of those nuances but that doesn't change the fact that the OC had those problems. The camera problem is still the biggest annoyance for me and also the AI, even if tony's AI helped a lot. If someone manages to reach the and of Act I then they will probably finish the game since things get a lot more interesting there. I'm currently in act II and I confess that I'm starting to get fond of the game despite it's problems.

And what does WOW have to do with it? I fucking hate wow. Just look at the witcher, a game that uses the same engine. The managed to give you 2 camera modes one far isometric and one over the shoulder that are both very smooth and fully playable.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

1.The interface is just not good enough, right click to menu then right click to submenu to choose an action that should be easier accessed.

That's exactly how it worked in the original NWN. You have to hold the right mouse button a bit longer, I think, but it takes, like, 15 minutes to get used to.

The mini map isn't helping and you can't hotkey many important actions.

Why do you even need a mini-map? Maps are small and easy to keep in the head.

Also, swapping party members can be done only in the tavern (stupid since the story seem to tell that they all follow you around your adventures and they all take your experience) and that makes swapping items with them a big nuisance. I've spent almost 30% of the time I've played micromanaging items.

True, but that's poor design of the OC, not NWN 2 as a whole. MotB has considerably less inventory-juggling, for example.

2. Camera

Oh. I always zoom the camera out as far as possible and never encountered any of the problems you mentioned as a result. I guess plenty of people have different tastes.

3. I also forgot to mention the completely bumb AI. The default AI is just stupid and the way the battles are played in NWN2 they call for party members to play with their scripts, they are not like BG battles where playing all members by yourself is a must. When will all those game makers understand that you should have the option to tell each member of your party which spells to use by themselves and which not? Which feats they should use by themselves and which not? One by one...Is it so hard goddamit?

All true.

 

[fastpunk]

I see no evidence that such a thing has ever existed. It seems like nothing more than lies and propaganda.

Could you be more dramatic?

Maybe because NWN 2 is just not fun to play?

Well NWN spawned a truckload of modules and it wasn't fun to play either. Arguably, NWN2 plays better than the old one anyway. The fact that it gives you direct control over party members is a huge deal for me and I think others feel the same. So it can't be that.

My bet is that the toolset is less intuitive this time around... and the learning curve is slightly higher. That's probably why it's slow on the modules side.

 

[Starwars]

I'm not even sure that the toolset is less intuitive, it's just that there is more that can be done. From my admittedly limited experiences, it's just that area design takes a *lot* longer in NWN2. If you've ever created areas in NWN1 and NWN2 you'd see what I'm talking about. For better or worse I suppose. I like the change myself, as I think area creation can be a very important part in RPGs. But then again, it's very easy to become perfectionist about things.
A lot of the other stuff is honestly not *that* different from NWN1. There's just a lot of added possibilities that people will likely want to take advantage of.
There are however still bugs in the toolset which are rather annoying, and which I really think should be fixed by Obsidian.

Other than that, the whole "the toolset is so horrible" is just bullshit, much of it coming from NWN1 modders who seemed to try it out for 5 seconds before giving up. I really don't think there's to much of a difference, and it didn't take me long before I had "gotten used to it" after switching from NWN1.

But I also just think the slower modding is due to a different market, plus there is already a game (NWN1) out there that people are comfortable with, that has matured a lot in terms of custom content and that takes shorter time to work with.

A lot of the NWN1 mods were really pure rubbish, as simple as that. It's easy to think of as a great modding community (and I do think it's very true in a sense), but the amount of quality modules is simply not very large at all. The first module that I really enjoyed for NWN1 was Tales of Arterra, and if I remember correctly that didn't come out until about 2 years after the NWN1 release.

NWN2 has Harp & Crysanthemum which I think will be an awesome series (and which really utilizes the increased possibilities of area creation) when it gets completed. And while most mods that have come out hasn't really peaked my interest, I really think they on an average are of better quality than most NWN1 mods.

But nope, I don't think the NWN2 community will ever produce nearly as much content as for NWN1.

 

[Volourn]

" I really think they on an average are of better quality than most NWN1 mods. "

That's retarded.

 

[Starwars]

No u.

Volly, go take a look at what is released for NWN1, seriously. I'm not saying that the best NWN1 mods have been matched by NWN2 yet, but take a gander at how much pure rubbish there is. A lot of it doesn't even work/can be finished.

 

[Volourn]

I haven't bothered to play all 4000+ mods for NWN1 (I mean who has? L0L); but % wise out of the maybe 5 mods I played for NWN2, and the hundred or so NWN1 mods (not counting PWs), it's easy to tell NWN1 mods - on average % wise - are better.

Of course, there are more crappy mods for NWN1; but that's simply a numbers thing.

Still makes me laugh thinking of those peons who believed wholeheartedly that NWN2 would crush NWN1 in terms of user content. L0L

 

[Fez]

You must be a very happy person with all that LOLing and R00fling you do. You are truly blessed.

 

[doctor_kaz]

It wouldn't surprise me if Black Hound never sees the light of day. That's an awful lot to ask of basically one guy in his spare time. Especially a guy who is a lead designer for a major game already. And, as I understand it, the hours required just for that are already ridiculous. (which probably explains why the best sounding mods usually don't get finished).

99% of NWN's mods are complete crap, and the remaining 1% are moderately enjoyable, at best, short linear experiences that would be worth paying maybe $3 for. (e.g. Adam Miller's stuff). The entire "user created content" aspect of Neverwinter Nights was horribly overrated. I'll take a well-done 50 hour campaign over a toolset any day. A lot of people say that a lot of the free stuff was better than Bioware's commercial products, but this is utterly idiotic. The only exception to this was Darkness over Daggerford, which, if I'm not mistaken, was supposed to be a pay module to begin with. The best micro content to come out after the OC was some of Bioware's mini-modules like Kingmaker.

Still makes me laugh thinking of those peons who believed wholeheartedly that NWN2 would crush NWN1 in terms of user content. L0L

Who said this?

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Still makes me laugh thinking of those peons who believed wholeheartedly that NWN2 would crush NWN1 in terms of user content. L0L

It will. Purgatorio alone is capable of doing it. 1 good module > 10000 shitty modules.

 

[MetalCraze]

oh please, why are you arguing with Volourn?
he is already known as a protector of the shittiest things created by or related to Bioware.

 

[fastpunk]

I don't understand why people brag so much about how good the NWN modding scene is. As I remember, it got off to a slow start too, it's not just something that happened with NWN2. Also, comparing a community that has had 6 years to come up with great mods to a community that's just in its second year isn't too fair. And to be perfectly honest, for a 6 year old community, NWN has very few modules worth trying. While NWN2 community, well, it's shaping up a bit better imho (Planescape Trilogy, Mysteries of Westgate etc)

 

[Lesifoere]

A lot of people say that a lot of the free stuff was better than Bioware's commercial products, but this is utterly idiotic.

But they are better than Bioware's OCs. The HeX Coda, Elegia/Excrucio Eternum, Tales of Arterra, Almraiven, thegeorge's amazing surreal/horror modules, and so many more. I'd put them above the OCs any day--for better writing, plain more interesting settings/stories/characters and C&C. I've no idea about the premium modules, though, not having played any of them.

The only exception to this was Darkness over Daggerford, which, if I'm not mistaken, was supposed to be a pay module to begin with.

Wow, you liked that piece of shit? The only interesting thing about it was maybe the worldmap and the stronghold, but it has fucking awful writing and some of the blandest writing and characters I've ever seen in a long time. BG1-level blandness.

 

[Texas Red]

Why do you care anyway, comrade? Its wise to take interest in such project *after* they are released since most don't. I also don't expect a one man module, regardless if its by a professional developer, to be anything spectacular or match the quality of Purgatorio, which has an actual team.