The Blistering Stupidity of Fallout 3

[Carrion]

People who can't see the superiority of New Vegas over FO3 are just as bad as FO3 fans. Neither can see past the superficial nor recognize things like writing, quest design, world-building, character system, combat mechanics, role-playing options, reactivity, choice and consequence or the overall structure of the game, the linear rollercoaster ride of FO3 versus the nonlinear New Vegas consisting of dozens of moving parts that interact with each other in various ways. New Vegas has some truly outstanding aspects that are pretty much unmatched in the RPG genre (or any other genre for that matter), yet both the casual gamer that thinks FO3 is the best thing ever and the try-hard that shits on both games only see an "FPS" and have no understanding of anything else that's going on.

Not saying that you'd have to like New Vegas, of course, as I can fully understand someone disliking it because of the engine alone, but equating it with FO3 pretty much makes you a dumbfuck.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Maldoror]

True to Caesar.

 

[Surf Solar]

That shit was horribly pretentious ingame and people actually like it and deem it 'superior'?

 

[Utgard-Loki]

"He received a free education from the Followers and eventually became a scribe, specializing in anthropology and linguistics."

caesar basically is just a big fat nerd, so it fits perfectly.

 

[Animal]

New Vegas is masterstrokes, esoteric philosophy, intricate and motivated politics, rich moral dilemmas, and immense characterization (...)

For me it just came out as pretentious filler. I can't remember a single NPC I thought was fun and interesting. The classic fallouts had a ton of charismatic characters that brought life into the game.

Yes New Vegas is miles ahead FO3, but it's still shit (imo) compared to FO1 and FO2 and it just equated to a forgetful speedy run through.

Even while trying to play it as just another game, it wasn't a very pleasurable experience. Maybe my nostalgia goggles impaired to to appreciate it for what it is or maybe my sense of humor is a bit hard to satisfy, but being true to my feelings, I must slap a crap stamp on it.

The fact that the character models look like lifeless mannequins in that engine doesn't help.

 

[Vadio]

That shit was horribly pretentious ingame and people actually like it and deem it 'superior'?

Yeah the Hegel part feels forced, in context with the rest of the dialogue. I think it was Sawyer too that put that in, so I'm not really surprised.

 

[Infinitron]

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Caesar

John Gonzalez wrote Caesar and J.E. Sawyer asked for Caesar to present his rationale in the framework of his interpretation of Hegelian dialectics.[5]

Making him an obnoxious bloviator may have been intentional, though

 

[Surf Solar]

Haha why am I not surprised

 

[Animal]

I can understand how you'd feel less at home with a game that tries harder to be smart than funny"

Lol. That's funnier than the screenshot you posted...

A play on word's meanings. Ah, so sublime... Kappa...

Sorry, no float my boat, but to each his own.

 

[Sceptic]

I don't think it's actually Shamus saying this, he says literally sentence before it's a false dichotomy and to not fall for it sentence later. It's just something F3 defense force always brings up and when confronted with statement that NV is superior game, as they need to bring it down somehow with vague pulled from the ass statements like "exploring the wasteland wasn't as much fun in NV, F3 has much better world".

Reread what he says. He agrees with this.

Yes, crawling though subways and gunning down super mutants was fun, and I liked Moria’s quests as much as anyone[5]. And maybe – like me – you enjoy exploring a ruined city more than crawling over the orange hills of the Mojave desert in New Vegas.

Then there's this:

This shouldn’t be an argument between Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. This should be an argument between Fallout 3 and the BETTER version of Fallout 3 we could have gotten if just one person had stepped in and either fixed the plot, or changed the plot to tackle a subject commensurate with the skills and ambitions of the writing staff.

In other words, the only realy problem with FO3 is the story in the MQ, and if that had been fixed it'd have been good enough. Needless to say I don't agree with this. Especially since he then goes on to say this:

Games criticism isn’t an all-or-nothing deal, and it’s okay to hate one part of a game and love a different part.

This is 100% true. I have defended this line of thinking many times. My MMX review is pretty much built entirely on this. We have like 4 POE reviews and they all have this, of course falling on different sides of just how much is good or bad about the game. But shooting, exploration and atmosphere in FO3 are also not good. Frankly I'm not even sure I find anything good about the game, which is not something I can say for a lot of them. But just because the principle he offers is true doesn't mean we have to apply it to ALL games and desperately try to defend indefensible design decisions in FO3 just so we can claim to be balanced in our criticism.

 

[Carrion]

[Perception] Shamus obviously prefers New Vegas and all but says it directly in that article, but he uses his high diplomacy skill to dodge the question and even makes some concessions to the FO3 fans because he doesn't just want to be preaching to the choir.

 

[Lemming42]

I've never laughed out loud at any of the Fallout games.

HEY LLOYD, CATCH

 

[Maldoror]

[Perception] Shamus obviously prefers New Vegas and all but says it directly in that article, but he uses his high diplomacy skill to dodge the question and even makes some concessions to the FO3 fans because he doesn't just want to be preaching to the choir.

He does prefer New Vegas; he outright says it in SpoilerWarning.

 

[Aoyagi]

New Vegas is masterstrokes, esoteric philosophy, intricate and motivated politics, rich moral dilemmas, and immense characterization turned Spaghetti Western/Cowboys VS Romans VS Autocratic Howard Hughes. The entire game is Hegelian dialectics physically manifested through symbolism and genius writing. It lives, breathes and emits at all times both a literary and an intellectual commentary on social politics and the rebuilding of humanity. It takes the atmosphere of Fallout 1 and 2, throws them into a desert and demands that they expand upon their ideas while still humming in-tune to the original concepts. It takes premises of design and fills them with rich, consistently thematic, genius additions.

Is that a copypasta?

 

[Maldoror]

New Vegas is masterstrokes, esoteric philosophy, intricate and motivated politics, rich moral dilemmas, and immense characterization turned Spaghetti Western/Cowboys VS Romans VS Autocratic Howard Hughes. The entire game is Hegelian dialectics physically manifested through symbolism and genius writing. It lives, breathes and emits at all times both a literary and an intellectual commentary on social politics and the rebuilding of humanity. It takes the atmosphere of Fallout 1 and 2, throws them into a desert and demands that they expand upon their ideas while still humming in-tune to the original concepts. It takes premises of design and fills them with rich, consistently thematic, genius additions.

Is that a copypasta?

Nope.

 

[Metro]

Thread has turned into battle of the newfags.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Thread has turned into battle of the newfags.

Working as intended.
Fight or die, newfags.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

"He received a free education from the Followers and eventually became a scribe, specializing in anthropology and linguistics."

caesar basically is just a big fat nerd, so it fits perfectly.

Yup, it's supposed to sound like a pretentious poindexter's lecture, as noted in the incredibly condescending tone of the first two sentences. Basically what you get when you ask a codexer what's so special about Planetscape Tournament that puts it above a masterpiece like the Mass Effect series.

Caesar doesn't see himself as a mere warlord so he'd probably jump on the chance to justify his motives with something fancier than "cuz the NCR is an eyesore and I need their land".

They weren't even good dungeons - killing Feral Ghouls and generic raiders gets trite very, very fast.

And then ghoul reavers start spawning and you're suddenly taking 10x more damage and oh god

 

[Jick Magger]

Caesar, at his heart, is a pretty viscous bastard who likes to hide his viciousness behind a veneer of eloquence. He's basically what happens when you talk a GD'er and give him a machete rape army.

 

[DraQ]

Caesar, at his heart, is a pretty viscous bastard

FO3gibs.gif

 

[Jick Magger]

Caesar, at his heart, is a pretty viscous bastard

FO3gibs.gif

Fuck my life.

 

[DalekFlay]

Caesar, at his heart, is a pretty viscous bastard who likes to hide his viciousness behind a veneer of eloquence. He's basically what happens when you talk a GD'er and give him a machete rape army.

Sawyer liked to talk a lot on formspring about every faction in New Vegas being "good" from a certain point of view. I don't think he pulled that off with the Legion, and I think he admitted that, but that was the goal he had. You were supposed to see more Legion territory with a real city and whatnot that was clean, well-run and safe but they ran out of time. Console memory issues meant they couldn't put it in with DLC. So in the end we have a faction that is supposed to be "good" from a certain point of view but all you see them do is pillage, rape and talk about "order" without a real example of it.

After my first playthrough (where I went NCR like a true euro-socialist) I tried twice to do a Legion playthrough but both times I ended up changing my mind, going Independent and House respeticely, because there just isn't enough Legion content or motivation. It's the game's biggest flaw, ignoring modern/console technical aspects.

On topic: you couldn't even have this conversation about Fallout 3 because the game has no depth whatsoever.

 

[Jick Magger]

Caesar, at his heart, is a pretty viscous bastard who likes to hide his viciousness behind a veneer of eloquence. He's basically what happens when you talk a GD'er and give him a machete rape army.

Sawyer liked to talk a lot on formspring about every faction in New Vegas being "good" from a certain point of view. I don't think he pulled that off with the Legion, and I think he admitted that, but that was the goal he had. You were supposed to see more Legion territory with a real city and whatnot that was clean, well-run and safe but they ran out of time. Console memory issues meant they couldn't put it in with DLC. So in the end we have a faction that is supposed to be "good" from a certain point of view but all you see them do is pillage, rape and talk about "order" without a real example of it.

After my first playthrough (where I went NCR like a true euro-socialist) I tried twice to do a Legion playthrough but both times I ended up changing my mind, going Independent and House respeticely, because there just isn't enough Legion content or motivation. It's the game's biggest flaw, ignoring modern/console technical aspects.

On topic: you couldn't even have this conversation about Fallout 3 because the game has no depth whatsoever.

I agree that more Legion content may've made me agree with Caesar's ideal while finding the faults in him as a person. As it stands, Caesar's just a manchild with a PhD who'll lecture you one minute about how superior he is and how high and mighty his plans are. Then the moment you so much as show the slightest hint of disobedience he drops all pretensions and basically throws a tantrum while threatening to have you executed. It's supposed to be "Will you follow this ideal for potential greatness, even if it's been set by a massively hypocritical, deplorable person?", but it becomes too hard to see past how much of a massive hypocrite Caesar is.

 

[skaraher]

Loved the tension during Caesar's first scene, Obsidian really knows how to handle the build up to a confrontation.

Yes he is an hypocrite and a massive jerk with a messiah complex, but so is House. And what has House accomplished ? Nothing but making a lone city the staging ground of his fantasies. Whereas Caesar has laid down the foundation of a new nation.

NCR is a pile of horse shit. It is basically Elstin's Russia in Fallout. Independence means same shit as before for everyone. House is a massive faggot and as soon is get power the Mojave will be crawling with robots and WMD. Caesar brings forth a new ideology and a sound plan for the future of the Wasteland.

And the ideal will endure. If Vegas is taken.

I think the Legion town of Malpais was going to appear in game (Isn't it what Sawyer referred to on Formspring ?) but it was scratched because lol Beth.