The next Bioware project

[Monte Carlo]

As we all know, Bioware are currently working on their Star Wars CRPG (KotOR), "XP2" for NWN (revealed as Hordes of the Underdark) and an unannounced title based on their own new IP. :: dramatic drumroll ::

Now, I am ambivalent about NWN in general and Bioware in particular. NWN certainly didn't live up to the hype for me, and guess what? It sits, gathering dust in my "soon to be a coffee coaster" pile whilst BG 1 & 2 still sit, heavily modded, on my hard drive. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in Star Wars. KotOR seems to display the Disney-fication of CRPGs which seems to be Bio's stated direction.

So, the question is this as far as I'm concerned:

Will the unannounced project be (A) a hackneyed pseudo-Tolkein fantasy CRPG, (B) a hackneyed pseudo Star Wars sci-fi game or (C) an attempt by the company to claw back some credibility by going off piste and making something interesting? After all, they've made enough dough. One for love?

I know 'C' seems extremely unlikely. Maybe there are some industry observers here who have a better idea. Nonetheless, the nature of this third project is interesting as it will have an impact on the wider gaming community.

So, Bio-bashing aside, does anybody think they've got it in them to make a game the more critical audience could enjoy too? What, at this stage in the game, would it be in Bio's interest to create? Or are they going to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are creatively bankrupt with this title?

Personally, I was looking forward to Jefferson by BIS. looks like it ain't gonna happen. Fallout has never excited me, and following FO3's development would require me to don too many asbestos garments. Yep, things ain't looking up for me I know and I'm almost giving up on the computer as a platform for CRPGs. Luckily, I have strategy and wargaming titles to fall back on...

So, it is for a number of reasons I'm interested in Bio's unannounced title. What do other forum members think?

Cheers
MC

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I'd like to see BioWare, or BIS for that matter, try and make a character system. BioWare definitely needs to be weened off the WotC teet, since they've been milking it since the beginning. If this new game is yet another d20/D&D system based CRPG, I don't think they can claw up any credibility since it'd be too easy to say they can't even handle creating the mechanics behind the scenes of a CRPG.

As for the setting, I doubt it'll be anything other than high fantasy. Even KotOR looks like high fantasy CRPG devices with Star Wars models and names thrown in to appease Lucas. Just the idea of "magic" light sabers imbued with the powers of powerful Jedi who wielded them in the past is enough to make me question that it's not high fantasy in Star Wars clothing.

 

[EEVIAC]

As for the setting, I doubt it'll be anything other than high fantasy. Even KotOR looks like high fantasy CRPG devices with Star Wars models and names thrown in to appease Lucas. Just the idea of "magic" light sabers imbued with the powers of powerful Jedi who wielded them in the past is enough to make me question that it's not high fantasy in Star Wars clothing.

I did not know that about KOTOR, and to quote your own words - "that's just arse."

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

MDK2 was good.
And it was fairly disticnt from the brilliant origional.

 

[Eldar]

I think Bioware still has the chance to produce an original game. Hell, anything is possible.

However, I have serious questions about their writing. Diablo and Diablo 2 had a better back-story than the BG games. Sure, BG conveyed much more of the story through gameplay, but the back-story itself wasn't particularly original. It didn't matter, though, because the gameplay elements were good and the games played well. I played both of the BGs (with expansions) several times.

Some folks suggest that the writing for IWD2 was over the top. I agree: some of it was. ...But it was solid writing. The writing for NWN, on the other hand, was under the bottom. The back-story for Dungeon Siege... oops, I mean, NWN was so lacking that I had forgotten it even while playing the game. Speaking of DS, it didn't matter that the back-story sucked. The gameplay made up for it. Not so with NWN.

SO, they'll have to produce good enough gameplay to make up for their substandard writing skills. To be fair, though, I think some of what I didn't like about the writing in NWN was intentional to make the game more accessible for the player. The design team beat the player over the head with several ideas that would have been better conveyed with a softer touch. Oh well, I'm not giving up on Bioware until I try KotOR. However, the ridiculous multi-colored light sabre thing doesn't sound promising to me.

 

[Section8]

MDK2 was probably their best effort, but it still had it's fair share of annoying and retarded features. Most of the "minigame" aspects were horrible, from the asteroid dodging to the trial and error goldfish maze.

 

[Rosh]

MDK2 was probably their best effort, but it still had it's fair share of annoying and retarded features.

Most of the game wasn't that bad, really. I did like the changes in who you played, and a lot of the pulp styling for the narrative. The humor is okay, not too overdone.

However, there are some big discrepencies. Shwang Schwing or whatever his name is. That really does NOT belong in the MDK universe styling of cheesy-looking big-headed 30's-50's-ish sci-fi movie/pulp alien invaders. Don't even get me started on the "Hello, Earth. Who's your daddy?" bullshit.

Most of the "minigame" aspects were horrible, from the asteroid dodging to the trial and error goldfish maze.

Ugh, yeah....

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

SO, they'll have to produce good enough gameplay to make up for their substandard writing skills. To be fair, though, I think some of what I didn't like about the writing in NWN was intentional to make the game more accessible for the player. The design team beat the player over the head with several ideas that would have been better conveyed with a softer touch. Oh well, I'm not giving up on Bioware until I try KotOR. However, the ridiculous multi-colored light sabre thing doesn't sound promising to me.

I'm not sure it's the writing skills so much as the lack of creativity they exhibit, like the whole Dead Man's Journal thing. In NWN, they came up with the idea of bringing someone's head for a reward, then they did it over and over and over again, rather than coming up with better ways of proof of a deed.

The whole idea of entering a new chapter and having to find x-number of bits of things was beaten to death in NWN as well. It would have been fine if it were done once, but it was done in the first three chapters.

 

[Jed]

I think the main problem with NWN's "story" was that it was more a showcase of k3wl models and (bad) ideas rather than a focused adventure: "oh here's some drow, overhere's a city of evil pirate wizards, there's some dragons, right here's the requisite undead phase of the game, and here's some ancient evil lizards just for good measure." Nothing is really logical, nothing really feels connected so much as just slapdash.

They should try writing for Enterprise....

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I think another problem is that they simply can't help themselves from writing the UBERPLOT. Concepts like playing the child of a god and lizards who created everything intelligent in the universe just stink of 12-13 year olds playing AD&D and being unable to help themselves from making half-dragon characters and every other form of silly munchkinish things we've all heard a zillion times before.

Of course, that's just one of the many problems they have, but it's a case when the whole is worse than the sum of the parts. When you factor in nearly everything mentioned, they tend to create something with the most munchkin plot, a lack of creative mechanics resulting in repeated quest ideas over and over and over again, stale and cliched characters occationally borrowed from elsewhere but done poorly, the lack of any options other than how you kill something, and so on.

Basically, their games seem to be geared towards the younger teen crowd who fawn over the munchkinism concept they drown their games in. Luckily, those are the type of people who fail to notice how poorly things are in those games as well, because they're running around with vorpal swords and a few artifacts by level 12.

 

[Andhaira]

lulz. I wonder what the above people would think of Mas Effect.

Lulz.

 

[bezimek]

lulz. I wonder what the above people would think of Mas Effect.

Lulz.

You are bad guy you know that, do you :twisted: :twisted:

 

[burrie]

Wow, discussions sure were... different back then.

 

[Jasede]

That was the healing influence of Saint P.

 

[MasPingon]

Bezimek could you stop using at least one emoticon after every sentence? It makes me want to blow your head off. Thx

 

[bezimek]

It can`t be done MasPingon. Gods give emoticons to use them , so ... It is the will of gods.

edit. Sorry I forget something :twisted:

 

[JarlFrank]

Holy fuck I just thought Bioware announced a new RPG.

Anhaira, thou truly art a fucker.

 

[thesheeep]

Bezimek could you stop using at least one emoticon after every sentence? It makes me want to blow your head off. Thx

Yeah!
Tell him!

I hate emoticons!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[Andhaira]

It can`t be done MasPingon. Gods give emoticons to use them , so ... It is the will of gods.

edit. Sorry I forget something :twisted:

It be ye who is truly evil.

And yeah, didn't mean to confuse anyone, but since Bioware and irs games are a heated topic these days, I thought it would be nice to get some retro.

Some intersting things to note baout the OP:

1)KOTOR 1 had yet to be released (IMO its Biowares bestgame yet. But then I am a starwars fan)

2) Jefferson was still in production, thought things were looking grim.

3) Fallout 3 was in development...but it was INterplay's FO3, not Bethesda's.

 

[Volourn]

"(IMO its Biowares bestgame yet."

Your opinion is wrong. It's posisbl;e their worst full gme yet not coutning NWN OC; and it doens't win that fight BY MUCH.

 

[Jaesun]

YAY! Necro threads. Though amusing.

Well Bioware is working on "Revolver" (Named after a server and has no relevance to the title they are working on).

I'm 90% certain it is a SuPAR HERO RPG... If I was reading between the lines of certain developer posts correctly.

 

[Andhaira]

"(IMO its Biowares bestgame yet."

Your opinion is wrong. It's posisbl;e their worst full gme yet not coutning NWN OC; and it doens't win that fight BY MUCH.

No, you are wrong you stupid fool. KOtor is the first star wars crpg; and it is an excellent game in general. yes, the story is the usual bioware cliche, and has other issues. But the execution is very good, and the non-main quests are sweet. A great game; a true cinematic experiance.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

"(IMO its Biowares bestgame yet."

Your opinion is wrong. It's posisbl;e their worst full gme yet not coutning NWN OC; and it doens't win that fight BY MUCH.

No, you are wrong. KOTOR was awesome, Bioware's worst game was Baldur's Gate.

 

[Andhaira]

Hmm, well I can understand why you would say that. But iMO bio's 'worst' game was the oc of NWN. Talk about a dry, dry campaign. And you can only have like one henchman, and not a proper party??

WTF happened bioware.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

The NWN OC was bit predictable and cliched, but for me it was far more fun to play than the Diablo-esque Baldur's Gate.

Plus its unfair to rate the entire game of NWN just by its original campaign. There's the two expansions, the premium modules and the huge amount of custom content that really makes the game for me.