The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

[Silentstorm]

Sadly, console gamers buy anything so why give the equivalent of digital store sales on PC for theirs?

Heck, one of Game Pass's selling points is that games on it may also get discounts...but it's not ones you would get on Steam/GOG for the most part, and those don't require a monthly subscription either.

That being said, Sony rushing in with making games more expensive only made the Game Pass look more attractive to console gamers...and it won't matter since far more people talk about, buy and watch content related to the PS5 after the disaster that was Xbox One making people go for the PS4 in droves.

Seriously, Microsoft, start making more and bigger sales on the Xbox store and you should manage to steal some people from Sony and Nintendo, or at least make Game Pass's discounts bigger, after all, people who already have Game Pass typically get enough time to play any game there to completion before it may get removed, you need more than 10 or 15% discount in quite a few cases.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

If you intend to play a variety of releases, the PC versions are typically discounted sooner, faster, and for more than their console counterparts.

Even without discounts PC games are cheaper.
PC games that cost more that 50 euros are the minority, while on consoles the reverse is observable practice.
Yesterday I went to a shopping mall in long ass time, and stopped by a eletronic store.
PS5 games all cost 80 euros.
80 euros for the new CoD, NBA game, diversity quota Spider-man and a questionable remake of a 10 year old game
Even PS4 and XBone games were all at least 60 euros.
Meanwhile in the Computer games shelf Doom Eternal, REmake 2 and Witcher 3 GOTY were all at 40 euros (R6 Siege at 15 and SW Squadrons at 50).

 

[Silentstorm]

Heck, to contrast that, Doom Eternal is 69,99 euros on Xbox, 55,99 with Game Pass.

I wonder why the games are so expensive, people already pay subscriptions to play online and you'd think digital games would be at least cheaper to compensate, after all, you don't have to print anything for covers and burn and sell CD's or anything, just upload some screenshots and the game for download, it's the exact same thing for PC.

Can anyone tell me why the prices are so different?

 

[Caim]

Heck, to contrast that, Doom Eternal is 69,99 euros on Xbox, 55,99 with Game Pass.

I wonder why the games are so expensive, people already pay subscriptions to play online and you'd think digital games would be at least cheaper to compensate, after all, you don't have to print anything for covers and burn and sell CD's or anything, just upload some screenshots and the game for download, it's the exact same thing for PC.

Can anyone tell me why the prices are so different?

Bloated marketing budgets and greedy publishers.

 

[Silentstorm]

I wonder if it's also lack of competition and alternatives, plus Steam/GOG and others popularized digital games before they really started to focus on digital games too.

Just saying, i don't think there is a Humble Bundle and various others equivalent for consoles, i am not sure if they have Keys or codes for specific games, and consoles all only have one online store, what, you will use something other than PSN or MS Store to buy games for the PS5 and Xbox Series, same goes for the Switch which has it's own store.

Just saying, even though it's the dominant force, Steam still has to worry about GOG, EGS, Humble Bundle and various others, and sites can just sell Steam Keys, it gives more incentive for Valve or others to make discounts to get attention and sell games, you don't really get that with consoles, you either use the main store for your console or nothing.

...I think, i will be honest, i have always been a PC gamer and never owned a console, maybe you can use other stores but i never heard about them.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

$1000 is a bit wishthinking.
8 core CPU, 2080/3070 GPU, 16 gb ram, nvme ssd, plus decent motherboard, PSU and the case.
About 2k dorra and thats without the monitor.

1080p machine for 1k, sure. 4k/60 machine? Good luck. Plus what is that piece of shit gonna run in 3-4 years when they really optimize for consoles instead of this cross gen shit? Lower the res to 720p?

Nothing can beat economy of scale and selling consoles at a loss, but you are so far off that is not even funny

Full build and you can even get it cheaper if willing to snipe deals:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/sRHNz7

 

[Azdul]

Plus what is that piece of shit gonna run in 3-4 years when they really optimize for consoles instead of this cross gen shit?

How to optimize your game for consoles:
1. Lower the level of detail till you reach between 25 and 35 fps on average on given hardware.
2. Lock refresh rate to 30 fps.
3. Change the price to 80$.
4. If customers complain about performance, tell them to buy 'Pro' console.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

technology needs to move on, we'll get there eventually, but we're getting way ahead of ourselves trying to push it on current mainstream hardware, especially consoles.

Not really, it's always been like this
The next generation of consoles are always used to push the next big tech thing

The og xbox pushed for online multiplayer, and it become the norm in the PS3/360 generation.

Meanwhile those consoles pushed for 1080p and digital services, which became the norm by the time the PS4/Xbone rolled in.

This last in turn pushed for 4k, VR and streaming. Fortunately streaming hasn't succeeded (yet, because those bastards sure are trying). VR has become far more cheaper and common to the point where major releases either feature a VR mode or are completely made for VR (i.e. VR is here to stay). 4k is supported by pretty much every game now, and 4k screens (and even 2k) are starting to replace 1080p

Now raytracing has already being pushed for 2 years now
And the PS5 + XboxXx were made to specifically support that tech
So you bet your ass that almost every AAA game of the next 5 years are going to have it
By 2025/26 this WILL be the norm

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Normally you don't really see the true powah of consoles elicited until the last 1-2 years of their lifespan. And the lag of software development vis-a-vis hardware capability surely doesn't seem to get any smaller this time around either.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

technology needs to move on, we'll get there eventually, but we're getting way ahead of ourselves trying to push it on current mainstream hardware, especially consoles.

Not really, it's always been like this
The next generation of consoles are always used to push the next big tech thing

The og xbox pushed for online multiplayer, and it become the norm in the PS3/360 generation.

Meanwhile those consoles pushed for 1080p and digital services, which became the norm by the time the PS4/Xbone rolled in.

This last in turn pushed for 4k, VR and streaming. Fortunately streaming hasn't succeeded (yet, because those bastards sure are trying). VR has become far more cheaper and common to the point where major releases either feature a VR mode or are completely made for VR (i.e. VR is here to stay). 4k is supported by pretty much every game now, and 4k screens (and even 2k) are starting to replace 1080p

Now raytracing has already being pushed for 2 years now
And the PS5 + XboxXx were made to specifically support that tech
So you bet your ass that almost every AAA game of the next 5 years are going to have it
By 2025/26 this WILL be the norm

You get prettier reflections, shadows and ambient acclusion, not actual full raytraced lighting in these consoles. Because they can't handle more. It's a gimmick and will remain so until PS6 and Xbox Spencer X.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Ray tracing is a gimmick, full stop.

There's only one fully pathtraced game available, and that's Quake.

 

[Silentstorm]

Is it true that Microsoft took a really long time giving developers Devkits?

Read something about how Sony was far more open about the PS5 and pratically delivered Devkits a year before the devkits for Xbox Series got released, and that was with the PS5 being more similar to develop games for people already used to the PS4 while the Xbox Series have a bit more changes in how one goes towards programming games for.

Just feels a bit odd, though i guess it explains how despite being the most powerful console, some games already run worse on the Xbox Series X than on PS5, the devs just aren't good enough to actually optimize for it.

 

[DalekFlay]

Ray tracing isn't a gimmick and it won't go away like a fad, that doesn't make any sense. It's a demanding graphical advancement that isn't really worth it right now, but that doesn't mean it has no future or use. Don't be over-dramatic.

 

[J_C]

Ray tracing isn't a gimmick and it won't go away like a fad, that doesn't make any sense. It's a demanding graphical advancement that isn't really worth it right now, but that doesn't mean it has no future or use. Don't be over-dramatic.

Agree. It is one of the next logical steps in graphical advancements. It will stick on, especially since from now on, both GPU manufacturers will support it on their cards. And as cards will become more powerful, it will be more and more easier to use this feature in games. Why wouldn't the devs use it if they have the opportunity?

 

[TheChickenKing]

I believe I read that the GTX 3000 series of cards is supposed to be able to handle ray tracing more or less like it's not even turned on in the first place due to some changes in how they processed that stuff. That could've been marketing tomfoolery, but either way, new cards are certainly going to handle it far better and continue to do so with every iteration.

 

[TemplarGR]

Just feels a bit odd, though i guess it explains how despite being the most powerful console, some games already run worse on the Xbox Series X than on PS5, the devs just aren't good enough to actually optimize for it.

The consoles are basically the same... If any console could benefit from special optimizations, is the PS5, not the Xbox, since the PS5 has a much faster SSD controller that it can use to fast-load data into RAM(so hypothetically it could be used in creative ways to boost performance), while the Xbox has a more traditional SSD. There is not much need for other special optimizations between the 2 versions (outside from some minor alterations here and there to keep framerate stable). In fact, the differences are lower than the previous gen....

Ray tracing isn't a gimmick and it won't go away like a fad, that doesn't make any sense. It's a demanding graphical advancement that isn't really worth it right now, but that doesn't mean it has no future or use. Don't be over-dramatic.

Well, the current implementation of raytracing IS a gimmick. No one is arguing that raytracing per se is a gimmick. After all, it is a very old technique, Pixar has been using it for decades for example...

 

[CrunchyHemorrhoids]

I believe I read that the GTX 3000 series of cards is supposed to be able to handle ray tracing* more or less like it's not even turned on in the first place due to some changes in how they processed that stuff.

*DLSS.

 

[DalekFlay]

Well, the current implementation of raytracing IS a gimmick. No one is arguing that raytracing per se is a gimmick. After all, it is a very old technique, Pixar has been using it for decades for example...

I think it was a gimmick when the 2000 series cards came out, absolutely. With the 3000 series and consoles using it, I don't think I'd call it that anymore really. Or at least it won't be much longer, since more and more games will be using it and in ways that are less demanding due to the consoles. Also if you like DLSS, it's pretty usable now.

 

[IceyD]

Are there any 4k60 games available for consoles yet that actually look demanding?

 

[Vyadhis]

I'm not a big hardware expert but is it true that the ps5's gpu is better than a 2070 super? I just brought one early this year in hopes of being set for awhile but hearing this news kinda bums me out considering I paid more for the GPU than what a non-scalped PS5 costs.

 

[DalekFlay]

Are there any 4k60 games available for consoles yet that actually look demanding?

AAA visuals at native 4k with no reconstruction and 60fps? I doubt it. There are some genuine 4k 30fps games though like Red Dead 2.

 

[aweigh]

4k60 games that on console that are graphically demanding? Well since PS5 and SeX are officially out now I guess the only one that qualifies is AC: Valhalla.

 

[soulburner]

I'm not a big hardware expert but is it true that the ps5's gpu is better than a 2070 super? I just brought one early this year in hopes of being set for awhile but hearing this news kinda bums me out considering I paid more for the GPU than what a non-scalped PS5 costs.

The PS5 GPU has the same amount of shaders and compute units as the RX5700XT, however it is based on an updated RDNA2 architecture, which should give it significantly higher IPC, so it's not directly comparable. Theoretically it should sit somewhere between the RX5700XT and RX6800, so keeping in mind that the 5700XT is comparable to the 2070 Super (depending on a game it might be slightly faster or slower), I think it is safe to assume the PS5 is more powerful. Will it translate to some upcoming PC games underperforming - only time will tell. I think if you're playing in 1080p/60Hz you should be safe, but anything higher is an unknown at this point.

 

[DalekFlay]

4k60 games that on console that are graphically demanding? Well since PS5 and SeX are officially out now I guess the only one that qualifies is AC: Valhalla.

It doesn't get anywhere near 4k native, watch the Digital Foundry video. Also it dips below 60 often. Also also it's a last-gen game on a next-gen machine, so I'm not even sure it qualifies for the question really.

 

[aweigh]

I did my duty and left a comment under the DF video... "LOL XBOTS ON SUICIDE WATCH" ^_^