Wizardry Wizardry 8 - surviving high level mobs

[Terenty]

How about Speed? My fighters both have 100 in strength and a lot in vitality and dexterity. Would speed be a good investment?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

General rule of thumb is pick two stats and pump only them until they reach 100 to unlock special skills asap.

For martials str+dex. I don't do vit, but I guess it's not the worst idea in the world if you just start and find your dudes dropping a lot.

For casters it's int+pie.

For ranged it's a bit more complicated, but either sen+dex or sen+str.

Spd is an ok secondary stat to invest into, but it depends on whether you have bard. If you do, then he will spam max dice haste every combat from mid game onwards and spd loses a lot of value.

Note that there are some exceptions with skill governing attributes. Divinity casters don't need int as much, for example.

 

[Butter]

Early Midgame is hard. since you are new, you won't have the best weapons and you probably took level-ups as quickly as possible. Accept the fights and learn to deal with them. CC spells are your best friend: Blind, Terror, Hypnotic Lure, Insanity etc.
Try to develop your skills and don't take levelups, except you are really close to a main stat reaching 100, thus unlocking the expert skill.
Get everyone up to par in some form of ranged combat (Bows, Guns, Spells, Throwing), combined with CC spells you can weaken enemy groups alot before they enter melee range. It's mostly about breakpoints, when you get several swings/attacks per round you will see a major difference in combat results.
Sorceresses + entourage are a pain in the butt. Have some long range disabling spell ready to shut her up

Wiz8 is mostly about perseverance. If you are too weak to deal with an area, despite being equal in level, you have to grind up skill values.

"Just don't level up."

Just play a game that isn't utter shit.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Stalling lvl ups is a ridiculous powergaming advice that's absolutely unnecessary.

 

[Piotrovitz]

I always cheese this encounter by starting combat and then luring the saplings outide to the courtyard where they can't cast spells. It's indeed a tough one, since at this point you don't have enough magic protection yet, and they love to cast Crush, which usually means instakill for one of your dudes.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Stalling lvl ups is a ridiculous powergaming advice that's absolutely unnecessary.

This.

If you know what you're doing and don't roll with some wonky/gimped party, the game is easy enough, even on Hard, and absolutely doesn't require such degeneracy.

This retarded notion, along with upkeeping the myth about Arnika road being unbearable etc, should be finally put to rest.

 

[Terenty]

I always cheese this encounter by starting combat and then luring the saplings outide to the courtyard where they can't cast spells. It's indeed a tough one, since at this point you don't have enough magic protection yet, and they love to cast Crush, which usually means instakill for one of your dudes.

Yep, that's how I solved it as well in the end

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Terenty hasn't said what his party is, how many casters, items, etc. Formation makes a difference too.

Trynton is kind of a wall if you're not prepped for it, you can always come back later. No problems in the game can't be solved by leveling up more.

 

[Desiderius]

I figured all this out a couple years ago, but the Saplings are fine, where you can get in trouble is an unlucky spawn at the front door.

I think I just saved that fight until I had a couple more levels. Good idea to make a run north first for instance.

Can't imagine not having a Bard and Gadge. Gadge needs to train up his Omnigun and Ranged (max SEN/DEX) early, Bard can do Artifacts. Nip classes are bad in full party. Mage can get Element Shield up to handle Saps.

There are some fun niche Liz Fighter and even Rogue builds that rush Iron Skin but O/W STR/DEX melee (Shields are good).

 

[Piotrovitz]

There are some fun niche Liz Fighter and even Rogue builds that rush Iron Skin but O/W STR/DEX melee (Shields are good).

Shield are shit in W8, it's always better to dual wield with any martial class. The only exception is melee Bard with Bloodlust + Thieves' buckler, which benefits from +10 SPD greatly.
Also, Iron Skin is one of the worst special skills, not to mention that pumping VIT to 100, instead of STR/DEX, is a total waste.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I always found Gadgeteer inferior to Bard. Ranger or Ninja are better for pure ranged damage, and the Gadget spells aren't as useful. Bard gets Heal All early, plus Freeze all, Haste, and Nuclear Blast. Gadgeteer gets Tsunami and Asphyxiation but not until much later, along with a late Heal all. Less useful for more of the game. Bard is also more useful as a front liner, people here swear by it, though I consider that pointless for a character who puts themselves to sleep with their special moves. Use Bishop for all general spellcasting needs, rest of the party is 2 front liners and 2 flankers with reach weapons, then I'm never dependent on RPCs.

it's always better to dual wield with any martial class.

I found Mook Fighter with Giant's blade pretty fun, though nothing really beats Mauler + Diamond Eyes except for ultra rare late game chest drops. If you get Excalibur or Avenger, they're great.

 

[Desiderius]

Not if you figure out how to position your party it isn’t. Have to use the *front* box. Bard can man the side with Shield too in some configs.

Hardcore Wiz8 forum had already figured this out before me.

 

[Desiderius]

(Bloodlust is bad)

Mostly because it robs team of training opportunities.

Liz Fighter can get IS at *lvl 6*. It isn’t bad if you can unlock it that early. Gives you time to unlock a third 100.

 

[Piotrovitz]

I always found Gadgeteer inferior to Bard.

Yep, Bard's instruments are superior in every way to gadgets, especially that you get the most useful ones relatively early (Haste, Magic Screen, Insanity, Armormelt). Good gadgets are available only late game, not to mention that they mainly focus on DD instead of debuffs/CC. Plus while the beefed up Omigun is good, the blind debuff is annoying and afaik it procs 10%, so lots of already long fights are artificially prolonged by mobs running away.

 

[Piotrovitz]

(Bloodlust is bad)

It's not optimal for FIG or ROG, but it's a perfect weapon for melee Bard (and SAM as well). Since they don't have neither berserk nor backstab, Bloodlust is the perfect weapon to his boost dmg potential, which goes well with all the Bard-only gear, and can turn him into reliable fronliner.

Liz Fighter can get IS at *lvl 6*. It isn’t bad if you can unlock it that early. Gives you time to unlock a third 100.

Sure you can get it early, but it's still inferior in every way to Power Strike.
Dealing more dmg is way more important in W8 than tanking - hence low usefulness of shields or skills like IS.

 

[Terenty]

Terenty hasn't said what his party is, how many casters, items, etc. Formation makes a difference too.

Trynton is kind of a wall if you're not prepped for it, you can always come back later. No problems in the game can't be solved by leveling up more.

I have 2 fighters, 1 mage, 1 alchemist, 1 bard, 1 ranger.

Alchemist can throw bombs and powders, but I haven't done any potions so far. She also casts water magic and heals wounds

Mage is speced in fire and water, and I started giving points to earth as well. Also I give points to stuff/poles

Bard is speced in locks and traps, artifact and communication, though I'm not sure if communication is of any use.

Ranger is scouting and has some spells that I never use

Also Vi and that rogue dude from Arnaka, though he comes and goes as he pleases.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

It's not a bad party. 2 Fighters is almost overkill, but you can give one a spear if you like. With that setup you'd almost have to frontline your bard, the special equips make it functional. Vi is awesome, the next best RPC is a Monk who you can find later.

The problem with specializing your mages is you end up with less mana. The way spell points work in Wiz8, the more spells you know, the higher your MP gets, and it's cumulative over leveling. So the more spells you learn early, the more MP you end up with.

This means the best caster is always Bishop. Even if, say, you only want to use Psionic spells, the Bishop will get more spells, end up with more mana allowing more casts, which pushes the skills higher and gets more MP and even more spells. Alchemist is still pretty good though, can't be silenced. There's no reason not to take all the spells for the class, you're hurting your spell point growth and gimping yourself.

(Seriously who is giving this dumb advice about Wiz 8? Gamefags? Retardera? WTF.)

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Sure you can get it early, but it's still inferior in every way to Power Strike.
Dealing more dmg is way more important in W8 than tanking - hence low usefulness of shields or skills like IS.

Not to mention max dex + Reflextion (it levels itself!) is sufficient for everyone to avoid most hits, and you'll have more attacks.

 

[Piotrovitz]

I have 2 fighters, 1 mage, 1 alchemist, 1 bard, 1 ranger.

Alchemist can throw bombs and powders, but I haven't done any potions so far. She also casts water magic and heals wounds

Mage is speced in fire and water, and I started giving points to earth as well. Also I give points to stuff/poles

Bard is speced in locks and traps, artifact and communication, though I'm not sure if communication is of any use.

Ranger is scouting and has some spells that I never use

Also Vi and that rogue dude from Arnaka, though he comes and goes as he pleases.

That's a great party for the first run, you got everything covered

Just a few friendly spoiler-free non-metagame'y tips:

- Don't pump throwing on Alchemist, put points into Alchemy and relevant magic realms, so your spells will hit harder. Throwing will rise on it's own by using slingshot, beside, the bombs/powders are not really that useful, since they have fixed casting lvl. Most of the fights you will sling spells, and bombs can be treated as a last resort when you'll run out of mana. Put some points into Fire - Blinding Light is a great early CC spell.

- For Mage pump Wizardry + magic realms. Don't pump staves, not worth it, you'll cast spells every round anyway.

- On Bard pump lock&traps, Music and his weapon of choice skill. Sadly, Communication doesn't seem to do shit so skip it completely. Artifacts is also kind of dump skill, but since you don't have access to Identify spell (limited to Priest/Psionic/Bishop), you can pump it up a bit just to not rely on scrolls for every single unidentified item. Or buy Identify spellbook for Vi and forget about Artifacts completely.

- Don't put any points into magic for Ranger - you have a pure Alchemist, so no need to create a second/gimped Alchemy caster. Pump Bow and Ranged. Ranger is not the best dmg dealer at the start, but later on he catches up, gets multiple shots per round and starts procing instakills left and right.

- Keep Vi, she's a great support and will go with you to most of locations. Dump the thief from Arnika - you have lock&traps covered by Bard, so there's no reason to drag him and steal your exp, especially he's not bringing much to the table.

 

[Desiderius]

(Bloodlust is bad)

It's not optimal for FIG or ROG, but it's a perfect weapon for melee Bard (and SAM as well). Since they don't have neither berserk nor backstab, Bloodlust is the perfect weapon to his boost dmg potential, which goes well with all the Bard-only gear, and can turn him into reliable fronliner.

Liz Fighter can get IS at *lvl 6*. It isn’t bad if you can unlock it that early. Gives you time to unlock a third 100.

Sure you can get it early, but it's still inferior in every way to Power Strike.
Dealing more dmg is way more important in W8 than tanking - hence low usefulness of shields or skills like IS.

Bloodlust is the absolute worst thing you can be doing with Bard. Melee Bard shouldn't really be a thing in full party anyway, although Bard can guard the flank, but if you want to melee with Bard it takes a ton of practice, which is the one thing Bloodlust won't give you..

SEN gets that sweet, sweet intitiative to get Haste off and that fits better with ranged which Bard can be fine with too. Can also train Artifacts with Stix etc...

Focusing on damage dealing over defense is a good way to let you skills lag. Tank in front box with fighter to get Shield and Melee trained while rest of party gets their casting and ranged up while doing the damage (though Fighter still does a good bit one-handing). Omnigun will own by midgame if you do this I like bringing a Ranger too.

OBV on Liz Fighter (Liz Rogue is weird) you get *both* Power Strike and Iron Skin. IS at 6, PS around 8 or 9 then can still get to Reflexion IIRC after that.

 

[Desiderius]

Communication doesn't seem to do shit so skip it completely

It does. Improves prices IIRC, if that's something you care about. Takes awhile to get to Potion selling if you go Ranger over Alch, which I do. Especially tight at Umpani if you go there before Arnika (to get spells).

Gadge is fun and effective (if you go all in on *hitting* with Omnigun early even when it isn't doing much damage to get skill ups) and can handle L&T better than Bard, which gets stretched thin already. Trying to stick to skills each class starts with is a good way to get things snowballing since there's increasing training chance until you hit fifty depending on what you already have.

Bard/Gadge can be effective midgame Ranged attackers if you go DEX/SEN and don't worry about VIT/PIE so much. Gadge eventually wants STR and that will also improve Stamina. Rest spells are a good way to train Water magic anyway.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Bloodlust is the absolute worst thing you can be doing with Bard. Melee Bard shouldn't really be a thing in full party anyway, although Bard can guard the flank, but if you want to melee with Bard it takes a ton of practice, which is the one thing Bloodlust won't give you..

SEN gets that sweet, sweet intitiative to get Haste off and that fits better with ranged which Bard can be fine with too. Can also train Artifacts with Stix etc...

Dunno man, I always took bard for my Hard/Ironman runs and turned her into full melee. One lvl of Fighter to get some free points in sword/close combat, then switching to Bard and pumping STR/DEX/SPD and sword/music on every lvl up. Bloodlust + Thieves buckler + all the bard-only armor + ring of the road give tons of bonuses turns her into melee powerhouse. With shitload of SPD, she's starting every fight with Haste and then focuses on dmg dealing and using other instruments situantionally. With front row of fighter/rogue/bard I never ran into any problems.

I was experimenting with ranged Bard as well, but in every case she was inferior to being front line melee with Bloodlust.
Guess it's a matter of taste or playstyle maybe.

OBV on Liz Fighter (Liz Rogue is weird) you get *both* Power Strike and Iron Skin. IS at 6, PS around 8 or 9 then can still get to Reflexion IIRC after that.

Yeah, but getting IS means having to raise VIT to 100, which is a huge investment and not really worth, compared to putting those points into DEX from the get go.

 

[Desiderius]

Pushing runes is fine, but how the hell you're suppose to know you have to stick dagger/short staff/longsword somewhere?

The three weapons on the resting screen...

 

[Piotrovitz]

Goddamn, you're right

 

[Piotrovitz]

Communication doesn't seem to do shit so skip it completely

It does. Improves prices IIRC, if that's something you care about. Takes awhile to get to Potion selling if you go Ranger over Alch, which I do. Especially tight at Umpani if you go there before Arnika (to get spells).

True, but since like in most cRPGs, economy is seriously broken and by the time you will have Comm on relevant level that will affect the prices, you will swim in gold anyway. You don't even have to abuse the potion selling, money never seemed to be a problem in W8.