Yet another chat log, this one was done with Malfador, aka Aaron Hall, and some nice chaps from Shrapnel.


Who doesn't like a good bumpmapped starship?

[Saint_Proverbius] Okay, let's start this.. As long as everything stays mostly civil, I don't see the need to moderate this. We'll go freeform.
[DavidGervais] SJ said he probably couldn't make it.
[Pooperscooper] muhahah
[Fyron] So Aaron, any truth to the rumors of a final SE4 patch?
[Malfador] Definitely. Now that the first Starfury patch is out, SE4 is next on the list.
[Fyron] Yay!
[Hugh_Manatee] and will I be able to launch satelites in tactical combat?
[Rollo] what are your plans to add to SE4?
[Fyron] We definitely need the ability to have custom strings for "Vehicle Type" in components.txt
[Akachaki] Me that tought it was Dungeon Odyssey next in the list. Any idea if there is going to be an other patch for DO ?
[Fyron] I am tired of not being able to have things like "Ship/Drone/Fighter"
[Malfador] The main reason is to fix the last remaining bugs. After that, its up to the SE4 Beta Testers.
[Fyron] Well please add custom strings for Vehicle Type...
[Fyron] It would definitely make the game much better.
[Malfador] Adding custom string for Vehicle Type is relatively easy. Just a matter of time and priority.
[Hugh_Manatee] and the ability to launch satelites in combat
[Fyron] It should just be a few lines of code.
[Malfador] Find a beta tester and ask them to vote for your favorites!
[Fyron] Rollo?
[Rollo] yes, Fyron?
[Fyron] How about if I make them all vote for them?
[Fyron] Want to vote for my favorites? :D
[Rollo] if i like them, yes
[Malfador] All of the modders for SE4 should start making lists of added features or changes they'd like to see.
[Fyron] I think you will like the custom strings for vehicle type
[TerranC] hi all
[Malfador] And I don't mean major game changes, just data files changes that would help your mods.
[Fyron] Well that would definitely help.
[Hugh_Manatee] like the ability to launch sattelite in tactical combat?
[DavidGervais] Aaron, a few people have asked if there will be a patch for the Starfury demo?
[Malfador] Once you've got your list, email it to me at se@malfador.com
[Fyron] I like using scale mounts to have the same comps for various type of vehicles
[Fyron]
[Fyron] Will do.
[Malfador] As to the Starfury Demo, once I track down and fix one more bug, we'll probably just re-release the entire demo
[Malfador] And there will be a patch for those that have the first demo.
[DavidGervais] sound good, thanks for the reply.
[Saint_Proverbius] Any plans on adding ship-to-ship communications in Starfury?
[Phoenix-D] Any plans to impliment cloak in Starfury? I know there's cloak-detecting components..
[Rollo] Aaron, are there any chances for a DO patch?
[Akachaki] In a near futur
[Malfador] Glad you asked! Ship-to-Ship Communication for Starfury is top of the list. It will definitely make its way into the game.
[Saint_Proverbius] Sweetness
[Malfador] Yes, and cloaking too...
[Saint_Proverbius] Based on the skill?
[Phoenix-D] whoohoo!
[Malfador] As for Dungeon Odyssey, I didn't have any plans for another patch, as I haven't received much in the way of bug reports.
[Saint_Proverbius] The turn based doesn't work in Dungeon Odyssey.
[Malfador] If you know of specific bugs that need fixing, don't hesitate to email them to do@malfador.com.
[Akachaki] I would be proud to help making a buglist with other people
[DavidGervais] Aaron, could you tell us any other features you might be adding to Starfury?
[Mephisto] SE5 is in the planning stage. Any hints what Modders can look forward to? Any chance for a AI script language?
[Malfador] As the beta testers know, bug fixing always comes first. After that, time permitting, I'll put in what ever additions they like.
[Rollo] yes, for example variable prices, to make a trading system
[Malfador] Within reason, of course! Major game changes don't have much of a chance.
[Fyron] Aaron, any progress on that explanation of the SE4 ground combat mechanics?
[Malfador] A Trading system has been suggested multiple times by the beta testers, so its got a high chance of coming to life.
[Fyron] It would definitely make SF much better.
[Malfador] (Diving for cover) SE4 ground combat mechanics, oh no!
[Saint_Proverbius] If there is a trading system where your ship can affect the prices of goods at a location, then there really needs to be some way of tracking prices.
[Malfador] Yes, there's a long list of items for SE4 I would love to get to. Its just time, time, time.
[Malfador] There's the combat mechanics details, a map compiler, new features, etc.
[DavidGervais] Aaron, just ask God to press the spacebar.
[Phoenix-D] Nooo! That processes the next turn! Bad idea!
* Phoenix-D hasn't saved yet!
[Fyron] That is f12
[Fyron] spacebar pauses SF
[Malfador] But, yes, I will try and put up a post this week or next about the SE4 ground combat mechanics.
[Mephisto] there is no save in simultaneous games
[DavidGervais] LoL,sorry, I was thinking SF
[Hugh_Manatee] mind if I ask why we can't launch satelites in tactical combat? AI issues?
[Malfador] Honestly, I don't delete your emails! Everythings in huge Word tables so I don't forget. Its just that the list grows faster than I can accomplish things...
[Saint_Proverbius] Hi, Skot
[Exitium] Well there's certainly a crapload of questions.
[Mephisto] You mean strategic combat, don't you?
[Fyron] Any chance of letting us watch the replay of ground combats in simulatneous move games? It really sucks not knowing how your troops faired...
[Hugh_Manatee] yeah that's it
[Exitium] You guys should really let him answer the questions one at a time.
[S_Krol] Hiya Proverbius. Got it working, woo hoo
[Saint_Proverbius] You're only 20 minutes late!
[Fyron] I have held off as long as possible... people just keep asking more
[Malfador] Ground Combat replays are in the list, but its a huge addition and not likely to make it. But I'll see what I can do for SE5
[Mephisto] SE5 is in the planning stage. Any hints what Modders can look forward to? Any chance for a AI script language?
[Fyron] Cant you just copy most of the code for how they are executed?
[Saint_Proverbius] Ground Combat in Starfury would be nice!
[Fyron] IT is all automated without any player intervention
[Malfador] SE5: I really want an AI script language, but its not as easy as you might think.
[Mephisto] Never thought it was easy. ;.)
[Malfador] I don't want to slow the game down horribly just to add this feature (the AI is slow as it is!)
[Fyron] But it wont be used except when the player is watching the ground combat
[Fyron] I have never seen 2 ground combats with the same forces end up with different results. Always have the same executtion
[Fyron] Same deaths on each side every time.
[Malfador] Sorry, my last response was a second line of the SE5 response.
[Mephisto] How long is your average working day, Aaron?
[Fyron] Oh.
[Malfador] Working day - it depends on what's currently going on.
[Malfador] Last few months its been 12 hour + days to get Starfury done.
[Malfador] Now, its shorter and I get the pleasant but mind bending fun of UI & function design for SE5.
[Instar] Hi, Im back
[Saint_Proverbius] How hard was it shifting gears from making 4X games to CRPGs?
[Malfador] Not as hard as you might think. I've always loved CRPGS, they were some of the first games that hooked me on the computer.
[Fyron] wb Instar
[Malfador] Dungeon Master on the Atari ST was a trully epic game.
[Saint_Proverbius] I had the Amiga one.
[S_Krol] There's a JAVA based DM remake out now...
[Saint_Proverbius] It's not bad, either.
[Instar] Hey Aaron -- now that you have a few very successful games under your belt, do you think the size of MM will be growing?
[Malfador] I've been making dungeon games since I was a kid. I love making random dungeon generators!
[Saint_Proverbius] It's hard, though. Very hard.
[Mephisto] I?d like to know what games (pen&paper or computer) you play in your free time, Aaron? I have heard you played Star Fleet Battles in the past?
[DavidGervais] What are some of your favorite games Aaron?
[Malfador] I hope to grow SE5 in the future, its just tough to pay a consistent salary. I know that I wouldn't want to work for a startup game development company!
[Saint_Proverbius] Odd that you mentioned Starfleet Battles, because Starfury reminds me of Starfleet Command, which is based on Starfleet Battles.
[Malfador] Switch SE5 for MM
[Malfador] Yes, I played a lot of Starfleet Battles and Starfire when I was a kid. Any two MM games remind you of these?
[Fyron] SE
[Mephisto] Mmm, let me think... ;-)
[Saint_Proverbius] It's DO, right?
[Instar] You ask the toughest questions
[TerranC] what other games have influenced you Aaron?
[Malfador] After loving MOO, I could not understand why no game would let you design your own starships.
[Malfador] And then if you're going to design them, you have to be able to fight with them.
[Platter] wtf
[Platter] is there some dev chat or something
[Mephisto] yep
[Platter] oh
[TerranC] something like that
[Saint_Proverbius] Yeah, it's Tuesday.
[Fyron] Too bad MOO3 flopped so horribly.
[Hugh_Manatee] what are your plans after SE5? SE6?
[Percolator_Fish] Too bad it deserved it.
[Mephisto] The starship design is a really strong point for the SE serie!
[Saint_Proverbius] I wasn't thrilled with MOO2, which is why I found SE3 and Stars!
[Malfador] So SE grew out of wanting to build a game I couldn't find, and with the elements of SFB and SF that I loved.
[DavidGervais] Actually, moo3's flop prompted sales of se4 so it's not really a bad thing eh Aaron?
[Fyron] Not at all.
[Fyron] :_)
[Fyron]
[TerranC] and the rest is us, I guess
[Malfador] MOO3 had some great ideas, but that UI... I write computer games and I couldn't even figure it out!
[Hugh_Manatee] what are your plans after SE5? SE6?
[Exitium] That's a nice thing to say.
[Fyron] It suffered from the fate of Corporation...
[DavidGervais] I hear GalCiv is not too bad.
[Malfador] But the SE series has had its UI fun, wouldn't you say?
[Saint_Proverbius] Starfury 2-32.
[Fyron] Too bad you canned the right-click menus in SE4... plan to bring them back for SE5? :D
[Mephisto] The famous right click removal?
[TerranC] The fun never stops for SE. :D
[Hugh_Manatee] yes the rght click menus were awesome
[Rollo] noooooo
[Fyron] I think both the hotkeys and the right-click menus would be best...
[Rollo] ooops, sorry
[Malfador] Gal Civ is an excellent game, I suggest everyone try it.
* SalsaDoom only started with SE4 -- he missed out on the right-click menu's entirely ;(!
[Fyron] It has no MP...
[Fyron] Not a game for me.
[Phule] Does anyone know when Adam is expected to arrive?
* SalsaDoom agrees with Fyron
[Fyron] Go try the SE3 demo
[DavidGervais] I'll have to go visit my old friends at Strategy First and grab a free copy then.
[Fyron] It is actually a full game by itself! :D
[Fyron] No silly time limits.
[Fyron]
[Instar] What in your opinion is the next big thing in games? 3D graphics and 3D sound are big now, but I think improved AI should be the next thing
[Saint_Proverbius] Voxels
[Phule] Thanks S_Krol - I guess I'll log off for a while then. Bye all.
[Instar] Or perhaps physics, from what I understand, DeusEx2 will have a great physics engine
[Exitium] You don't have to wait for Deus Ex 2 for a great physics engine.
[Exitium] Max Payne 2 already has that.
[S_Krol] the Havok physics engine is awesome...
[Mephisto] And done really neat, too!
[SalsaDoom] Bah, we've had awesome physics since QNP came out ;D
[Malfador] For first-person shooters, physics is going to be the big thing. If Half-Life has the physics they claim, everyone will have it a year later.
[Fyron] Almost
[DavidGervais] hmmm, Aaron, how about a Space Empires: Ground Force FPS game?
[Fyron] ick
[Fyron] Do you play any SE4 mods Aaron? I always wondered...
[TerranC] No.
[Malfador] For strategy games, AI is definitely the next big step. Moddable would be nice too.
[Hugh_Manatee] physics, SE don't need no stinkin physics
[Exitium] Havok 2.0 isn't really that far behind Karma.
[S_Krol] Heh, anyone remember the "physics" in Trespasser? Ugh
* Akachaki is writing this to save the log more easaly
[Exitium] Don't remind me.
[Malfador] Actually, the suggestion of converting Starfury into a sub game was an excellent one. I've been thinking about that a lot...
[Fyron]
[SalsaDoom] a sub game?
[SalsaDoom] Oh! about subs!
[Akachaki] like sub culture an old sub game
[Fyron] submarines
[Exitium] There's no market for submarines.
[S_Krol] What was the old Microprose game...Subwar 2020?
[Rollo] no, ,like submarines
[Exitium] Enigma didn't sell very well.
[Akachaki] exept for yellow submarines
[Fyron] Sure there is. Just not a huge one.
[Exitium] I don't like subs. How about ships?
[Malfador] But actually, my plans are to finish SE5, and then try my hand at another old favorite of mine, the conquer the world game (remember Empire Deluxe?).
[tesco] silent service was the old micro game
[Fyron] Do you play any SE4 mods Aaron?
[DavidGervais] hmmm, a Conquest game. Sounds good.
[Saint_Proverbius] Empire Deluxe was awesome.
[Exitium] Yeah.
* tesco has the memo pad from the empire delux box
[Rollo] oh, yes. empire deluxe in the SE universe?
[Exitium] Set in the age of piracy.
[DavidGervais] SE:Conquest
[Akachaki] Global domination .. cool !
[Instar] Aaron probably has no time to play games at all Id bet
[Fyron] It better be in the SE universe. :D
[Exitium] I'd buy that for sure.
[Fyron] Gotta conquer those dirty Drushocka...
[Saint_Proverbius] Tried Pocket War? It's less than deluxe, but it's fun Empire hommage.
[Malfador] SE4 Mods - Sorry to say that I don't. And its not that I don't want to, but I just don't have the time. If I'm not working on a game (95% of time), then I'm trying others in a genre that I'm interested in.
[tesco] arron i have one request for se5 ( lots and lots of reports and make them so you can sort and omit data )
[Exitium] There is a game that is sort of like SE. It's by Ascaron.
[Katchoo] Doesn't Shrapnel distribute a Global War-Domination type game already?
[Exitium] Set in the age of conquest. I forget what it's called.
[Fyron] What game is that?
[Fyron] oh
[S_Krol] No, no global war...
[Exitium] Check it out sometime, and tell me how it goes.
[S_Krol] Although there is a mod in The War Engine for a large scale WWII game...
[Katchoo] brb
[Saint_Proverbius] Too bad there's no publisher out there that specializes in independent strategy war games.
[Exitium] Yes there is.
[Exitium] Matrix Games.
[Malfador] I do try some of the mods briefly to check out how they've used the engine, but don't usually get to play an entire game. Its been a long time since I've played a game of SE4, sigh...
[Mephisto] If the Starfury engine is used in SE5, how many ships will it be able to handle in a battle (appro.)?
[DavidGervais] I have a question, will Malfador ever enter their games into the retain market (not just online)?
[Saint_Proverbius] Oh yeah, I love those guys!
[Exitium] Matrix Games just released 3 titles.
[Fyron] Aaron, you need to make some time to enjoy your artwork.
* tesco if you joined a pbw game you might enjoy it
[Exitium] Korsun Pocket, Massive Assault and Squad Assault.
[Instar] How has the transition to DirectX gone? I read about it and sometimes the syntax is a bit crazy
[Fyron] Yeah, a PBW game would be good. Just one turn every couple of days.
[Exitium] Hm, make that four - Titans of Steel.
[Exitium] Hm, make that four - Titans of Steel.
[Malfador] We may eventually make it to the retail market, but we'd need a triple-A title for that. And that requires a lot of money for the top of the line artwork.
* tesco would rather see game play than artwork
[Exitium] Korsun Pocket doesn't have top of the line artwork, Aaron.
[Hugh_Manatee] how many people do you have working for/with you?
[Malfador] As many of the beta testers know, Dungeon Odyssey and Starfury were stepping stones to reach the goals of SE5.
[Exitium] In fact, there's no graphics at all save for the interface icons and the icons representing units.
[Fyron] Yes, don't waste money on flashy graphics... hire some more programmers
[Hugh_Manatee] and what do they do
[Saint_Proverbius] Speaking of artwork, Aaron.. Bumpmapping would go a long way towards making Starfury perdy.
[Exitium] And the game's selling pretty well amongst the wargaming crowd, from what I hear. I don't see why SE can't have the same success.
[Malfador] Dungeon Odyssey was my first DirectX game, and Starfury my first Direct3D game.
[Instar] Bumpmapping requires a fairly recent card to run right
[Exitium] Not really Instar.
[Malfador] They were intended to build an engine that I could use for SE5 to create true 3D ships for the display.
[Exitium] Anything newer than the Geforce 2 will run bumpmapping just fine.
[Exitium] THose MX400 cards go for dirt cheap.
[Saint_Proverbius] Yup
[Exitium] And they handle bumpmapping perfectly.
[Instar] True. Bumpmapping does do wonders for games, look at Halo2 or Doom3
[Saint_Proverbius] Heck, look at BattleZone 2.
[SalsaDoom] Well, so long as it was optional, I don't see any problems with adding a few nice things..
[Instar] I don't know if its there in DX yet
[Exitium] Jedi Academy uses an engine that's a few years old and it's still pretty.
[Instar] it would require some more effort on the art people
[Malfador] Now, as to how many ships I can get into combat at one time, that's another question. But the main purpose was to move the space strategy genre on to the 3D era. (not that SE5 would be the first to do that).
[Saint_Proverbius] IG2 did it.
[Fyron] Yeah, but that game was lacking...
[SalsaDoom] Yeah, IG2's space battles were very pretty. To bad the game was over in an hour
[tesco] what is starshatter using ??
[Saint_Proverbius] 3D
[Saint_Proverbius] Starshatter is a sim, though.
[Instar] Aaron, what games are you looking forward to playing? I cannot wait to get my grubby paws on Doom3 or DeusEx2
[Malfador] Bumpmapping - I'd love to add all the bells and whistles to Starfury, but time is against me. The best thing to do is to add each of these features incrementally in each new game that uses the same engine. That way it doesn't take you 4 years to get the game out (O' FreeLancer, where art thou?).
[Saint_Proverbius] Freelancer.. meh. But the bumpmapping was pretty.
[Phoenix-D] Reminds me of something. How often do you have cut planned features because of time?
[tesco] ig3 was one i was waiting for... ouch
[Malfador] Games? - Half Life 2, Doom 3, DeusEx 2, any new title from Blizzard, etc.
[Fyron] Blizzard titles are always so lacking though....
[SalsaDoom] I don't like Blizzard myself ;P
[tesco] TA2 if that ever comes out
[Hugh_Manatee] SC was really hard, moved to fast
[Fyron] Good for a few minutes of romping, but bad for any extended play... too overly-simplified
[Instar] Well, Blizzard games are fun, but StarCraft is a click fest as is D2
[SuicideJunkie] They'd be good if they were more moddable
[S_Krol] Blizzard has some hell of production values though...gameplay, that's another story
[SalsaDoom] SC was just lame, compared to Total Annihilation
[Saint_Proverbius] TA is king.
[Hugh_Manatee] yeah TA rocked
[DavidGervais] SJ, you have any questions for Aaron?
[Malfador] I've actually never cut features for lack of time, I shoot pretty low! Actually, I have tended to get the bare bones set for the beta testers to hammer at. Then from their response I change the game as needed and add on to it.
[Exitium] Deus Ex 2 definitely tops my list.
[Mephisto] Indeed you have been very responsive to us at this. This is really impressive!
[Exitium] Not going to be strong in theRPG department, though.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] nearly forgot about this.
[Saint_Proverbius] Aaron, you were talking about dungeon generation. Any plans for making something like that in Starfury 2?
[Exitium] Oh well, it was never good at that in the first game anyway.
[Malfador] You don't even want to know what SE4 or Starfury looked like as the first version the beta testers got. They could tell you some horror stories. I have to put a lot of the reason for MM's success on their shoulders for their terrific feedback.
[Fyron]
[Instar] Why, thank you aaron, I never knew you loved us testers that much
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] *snaps a picture*
[Instar] We are so great, we are so great
[Mephisto] lol
[Rollo]
[Fyron] lol
[DavidGervais] ahem, I have screenshots for (Venture forth) should I leak them Aaron? LOL, (Just kidding)
[Malfador] Don't anyone say anything bad about Starcraft, it ranks as one of my top 5!
[Fyron] 8-O
[Fyron] But it is so stale and repetitive...
[Rollo] right on
[Mephisto] Fyron, you are out! ;-)
[tesco] is that top 5 crap games
[Exitium] I'm interested in hearing Saint's question answered too.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] tried the demo. got rush-killed by resources. didn't try it again.
[Rollo] hush, tesco
[Saint_Proverbius] Top 5 games you thought played too much like Warcraft 2 for you to take seriously? :D
[Malfador] Instar - Don't you remember what Starfury version 0.10 look like? Ugghhh....
[Exitium] Abou the dungeon generation in Starfury 2.
[SalsaDoom] Damnit! there goes my chances for SE5 testing. At least Fyron will keep me company. ;P
[Fyron] I remember!
[Fyron] It was scary...
* Akachaki separation
[Hugh_Manatee] I liked it I just sucked at it, and therefore I didn't like it
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] that doesn't make sense, fish.
[Malfador] Dungeon Generation in Starfury??
[Fyron] Oh, I have a strong suspicion that I will be a SE5 beta tester...
[Saint_Proverbius] Yeah, there's a few ways you could use it, Aaron.
* Instar remembers *wavy memory lane effect*
[Mephisto] How many fan emails do you get per day?
[SalsaDoom] Yeah, damnit. Its currently my goal in life to make it for 5.
[Exitium] Random ... galaxies?
[SalsaDoom] Well, my current goal is to release GiF2 before SE5 comes out. Then that.
[Fyron] That would be nice.
[Saint_Proverbius] The most obvious is for planets and star bases.. The less obvious one is for huge space constructs.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] what's Gif?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] Spherewoilds!
[Malfador] I don't consider SE4 or Starfury to actually be using random dungeon generation. Starfury is pretty simple, SE4 is more complex but not much so. Dungeon Odyssey actually beats the bunch in terms of complexity of the engine that generates the dungeon.
[Fyron] Yeah... I have not seen any RWs or SWs in SF... whats with that?
[Exitium] A big construct planet like Anachronox.
[Exitium] planet construct*
* tesco the map making for ta was fantastic... aaron a drag and drop interface would work quite well
[SalsaDoom] NarfPoitChezBOOM: My SE4 mod, Galaxy in Flames. ;P Version 2.0 of it has been 99% of the way done for months..
[Phoenix-D] I'd guess the problem of rendering it, Fyron. The scale is already weird.
[Fyron] True
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] ah. thanks.
[Exitium] Not all planets have to be bland.
[Fyron] It would just be a beach ball...
[Saint_Proverbius] Aaron: Generating starbase lay outs, as in being able to leave the ship.
[Fyron] Instead of a marble
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] would you want to meet the race that uses sphereworlds for beachballs?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] would you want to meet the race that uses sphereworlds for beachballs?
[Fyron] No, I meant what they look like in-game in the scale
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] i want to be able to land the ship.
[Phule] No, but I would be interested in seeing that beach....
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] i know.
* Akachaki separation
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] what's Akachaki seperation?
[Instar] Anyone else here program in COBOL? Its evil evil evil evil
[Malfador] Oh, I see. Yes that's possibility. Reminds me of Captain Blood (was that it?). But yes, that would be easy enough. The fun part of dungeon generation comes from trying to create something that looks like it has a purpose. You can't just dig square rooms and throw random items in them (Rogue). Theapproach I took in Dungeon Odyssey worked, but it was a little too repetitive.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] i thought Tesco was evil
[Fyron] Oh he is.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] so, is Tesco more evil than COBOL?
[Instar] If Aaron knows COBOL, Id be happy, he has to deal with the pain of the mainframe
[Fyron] I think tesco created COBOL... or maybe the other way around
[Saint_Proverbius] There's a neat dungeon generator on sourceforge that uses SDL.
[tesco] cobol abends around me
[Instar] Nothing is more evil than COBOL
[Mephisto] Good question about the programming language, Instar? Aaron, are you still using Delphi? What are the reasons for Delphi?
[Instar] I bet hes using PL/1
[Instar] or maybe COBOL
[Saint_Proverbius] Aaron uses PASCAL? You sick, sick, sicksicksicksick man.
[Exitium] That's sick.
[SalsaDoom] He should use Fortran.
[Malfador] Yep, still using Delphi. Why am I still using it? One word.... Legacy code.
[Spazmo] QBASIC is the key, folks
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] LOL
[Saint_Proverbius] hah
[Exitium] Hahah.
[Fyron] Good reason. :D
[SuicideJunkie] Oh, yeah. QB rocks!
[Exitium] Python is where it's at.
[Instar] I didnt know they had delphi DX interface
[SalsaDoom] Python /is/ good
[Exitium] Half of TOEE is python.
[DavidGervais] FORTH with "Turtle Graphics" (RT 90 PD FD 100 REPEAT 4)
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] TOEE?
[SalsaDoom] Temple of Elemental Evil
[Instar] Tomb of Elemental Evil
[Instar] Oops
[Instar] temple
[Malfador] I actually like Delphi very much. The language is simple but powerful, and a bit cleaner and clearer than C++. But the main reason I use it is because I used it for SE3. And SE4 was built on SE3. And Starfury and Dungeon Odyssey would eventually become SE5, which will be built on SE4. Weird?
[Exitium] Table of Elemental Evil
[SalsaDoom] Exitium: AkA the perodic table?
[Fyron] Programmers dream of writing as little code as possible
[Exitium] It's a joke, Salsa.
[Saint_Proverbius] Hi, Richard
[Hugh_Manatee] Tesco of eternal evil
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] ok. thanks.
[SalsaDoom] Exitium: yes I know its a joke ;D
[Mephisto] Hi!
[Exitium] Hello Richard.
[Fyron] hey hey Richard!
[Shrapnel_Richard] Hey guys, forgot the start time. Having fun
* SalsaDoom was making a joke too!
[Fyron] A little late? :D
[DavidGervais] Hello, Richard
[Malfador] Hola!
[Instar] Bonjour
[Shrapnel_Richard] Well some of us have to work Fyron . Don't mean to interrupt.
[S_Krol] Heya Richard
[Akachaki] Allo Richard
[Mephisto] Work?!?
[Fyron] But this is your work.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] hello everyone
[Exitium] Bonjourno my pretty princess.
[Instar] Work = Force * distance
[Fyron] True.
[Shrapnel_Richard] Not Full time Fryon, anyway didn't mean to interrupt the flow of questions .
[Saint_Proverbius] Bonjourno, you cheese eating surrender-monkey!
[SuicideJunkie] But Effort = Force * Time
[Fyron] We were just discussing programming language
[DavidGervais] Back on topic please.
[Mephisto] How many lines of code does SE4 have?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] Sleep = Inverse(Work)
* Mephisto hits Narf with hammer
[Saint_Proverbius] If you can count the lines of code, you're doing something wrong.
[Instar] There are 1.5 trillion lines of COBOL code in existance, and I am only making it grow
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] no, some programs autocount.
[Fyron] Or you just use some line counts and add them all up.
* Akachaki is doing a separation at the same time as asking if anyone else save the log
[Exitium] Narf: missed the point.
[Malfador] As to language, eventually I'll make a game in C++. And that's only for the back-asswards reason that all other game companies use the language, thus utilities and libraries are written in it. And I can't be an island!
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] nope. redirected the point.
[Fyron] I plan on having a transcript on SpaceEmpires.net
[Malfador] SE4 has about 150,000 lines of code.
[Exitium] Gonna be helluva long transcript.
[Akachaki] wow
[Saint_Proverbius] We'll have a log up on RPG Codex after this is done.
[Instar] Aaron, have you kept up on recent programming languages? Have you looked at C# or even Java for that matter?
[Instar] Or perhaps the .NET spiel? I think .NET sounds cool
* Phoenix-D winces at the idea of a SE type game in java
[Exitium] Why would he need 64bit interfacing?
[DavidGervais] wow, that's about 10 lines of code for every copy sold. (very approximate)
[Fyron] Java is a much more powerful programming language than just javascripts for web browsers...
[Mephisto] You know the amounts of copies sold?
[Exitium] Java is crap.
* SalsaDoom hates Java
[Exitium] Go for C++
[Malfador] Yes, and both language look good. But the game industry drives my decisions. Java will only work for game development if they can get direct access to the video card, and that defeat the basic purpose of Java. And being an interpreted language doesn't help for speed. C# is fine, but only because itsC++ with extras.
[DavidGervais] just guessing based on the post by Shrapnel that SE4 has sold over 500,000$
[Exitium] You can go for C Syntax .net. Now that's bloated software!
[Shrapnel_Richard] Java is crap, I should know I have programmed in it.
[SuicideJunkie] About that plug-inable scripting language. I think it could be a real boon just for ability types. Imagine a shield regenerator that puts more power into the weakest arc using the if statements. Using a modder-created "SJ shields regen" ability, say.
[Fyron] David, that was over a year goa
[Percolator_Fish] How do you pronounce "C#"
[Fyron] *ago
[Saint_Proverbius] C-sharp
[Exitium] C sharp
[SuicideJunkie] Cee-sharp, I believe
[Malfador] Java is an excellent language, and object oriented to infinity, but not really read for game development.
[Percolator_Fish] oh hah
[SalsaDoom] Percolator_Fish: I like "C-Pound"
* Akachaki is doing an other separation and is still saving the log even if it's gonna to be posted on rpg codex because akahaki is stuborn
[Katchoo] Aaron, what would you recommend as a good language to get your programming feet wet with?
[SalsaDoom] Its more appropriate, I believe.
[Instar] Katchoo: C
[Exitium] # is called a sharp, from piano sheets.
[Instar] buy Dan Gookin's "C for dummies" vol 1 and 2
[Instar] I loved them
[JohnPnP] Just music sheets, not piano.
[Instar] buy Dan Gookin's "C for dummies" vol 1 and 2
[Instar] I loved them
[JohnPnP] Just music sheets, not piano.
[Percolator_Fish] Thanks for that, John.
[Exitium] Buy Teach Yourself C in 21 days
[Exitium] John: are you saying piano sheet music has no sharps in it?
[DavidGervais] Katchoo, as a novice, I recomend the Dev C++ with the Allegro library. A very good start.
[DavidGervais] and free to boot.
[Saint_Proverbius] Teach Yourself C in 21 Days has some HORRIBLE practices in it.
[Malfador] Ouch, tough question on programming language. It really doesn't matter, just as long as you like the language. For someone who has never coded before, I recommend Visual Basic (Space Empires II). You can't do cutting edge, but at least you might be able to get a game done. And getting it done isall that matters.
[Exitium] That's what I got right now, saint.
[Saint_Proverbius] Dev C++ is what I use. I love that little compiler.
[JohnPnP] No, I'm saying that #s are in all music, not just piano.
[Fyron] Definitely a top-notch idea.
[Saint_Proverbius] Well, IDE.
[SuicideJunkie] I wrote my SF modding tools in VB.
[Exitium] It's bloated, but it teaches the basics.
[Katchoo] Is there a big gap in ability and learning curve from c to c++?
[Exitium] Not at all.
[Hugh_Manatee] everything in C can be used in C++ right?
[Malfador] For an experienced programmer, C++ is the only way to go. And not because of any logical reason, just because that's what 99.9% of the industry uses. And if you ever need to get a job in the real world, telling them you programmed games in Delphi won't help you!
[Exitium] Going for an object based language straight away is pretty messed up.
[Exitium] Yes Hugh.
[Fyron] Aaron, did you see SJ's question about component abiliites and a scripting language?
[Shrapnel_Richard] Yes Huh, C++ is just OO C
[Malfador] Scrolling too fast, must read faster...
[Fyron] With other stuff too...
[Saint_Proverbius] Umm.. What? Learning C first is a BAD IDEA.
[Exitium] Not really.
[Malfador] Can SJ repeat his question?
[SuicideJunkie] About that plug-inable scripting language. I think it could be a real boon just for ability types. Imagine a shield regenerator that puts more power into the weakest arc using the if statements. Using a modder-created "SJ shields regen" ability, say.
[Exitium] It's just object oriented C.
[Exitium] Saint: You sure?
[Instar] I disagree Proverbious
[Fyron] Enough about programming languages!
[Katchoo] Thanks for the information guys, I really appreciate it. (y)
[Exitium] I've heard conflicting views on this.
[Malfador] I completely agree. But the other side of the line is the programming that's needed to support the scripting.
[Instar] Yes, enough of this, more games
[Fyron] Yes Aaron, but it would be well worth it.
[Fyron]
[Fyron]
[JohnPnP] IS THIS A DEV CHAT?!
[Exitium] Yeah, you gotta learn what the hell it is you're doing.
[Exitium] Yes Johnny.
[JohnPnP] Thank you.
[Exitium] Go write a poem about it.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] apparently.
[Malfador] Its very difficult to get the AI to understand a script created on the outside of the program.
[JohnPnP] And fuck you, respectivly.
[SuicideJunkie] You could also even fancier stuff, like organic armor that only regenerates other organic armor, and that moves hitpoints from strong arcs to weak ones faster than it would normally regenerate.
[Shrapnel_Richard] Um guys, the focus is on Aaron right?
[Exitium] The focus is on both you guys.
[Fyron] I thought so.
[Fyron] "Shrapnel" is not the maker of Runesword.
[Shrapnel_Richard] No, sorry for the confusion
[Exitium] Well, yeah, but feel free to pitch in.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] baseball now?:-P
[charlie] Is CrossCut Games here?
[Fyron] Doesn't seem to be.
[S_Krol] Unfortunately no. I do know he's never used IRC before and was having a few problems with his firewall over the weekend. I just emailed Crosscut though, hopefully he's trying (or he remembered--heh)
[Malfador] AI is tough, but game play mechanics are tough too. To be able to plug new rules into an engine and have the game humm along and use those rules is not a simple trick. Its one I'd love to do, but I don't really have 6 months to write a script interpreter (and accompanying game modules).
[Hugh_Manatee] wow fyron you wwre right about this place....
[Mephisto] Any plans to have a offical PBW server for SE5? Help the PBW crew out with some money?
[Exitium] Fair enough.
[Shrapnel_Richard] Scott, have him download MIRC (www.mirc.com), that makes connecting a bit easier.
[Akachaki] Im going off, exams tomorow... Goodbye Aaron and evryone else !
[SuicideJunkie] Well, even without a scripting language to make the fancy-abilities, how about adding a moderate set of user-requested abilities hardcode?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] bye
[Katchoo] nite Akachaki
[S_Krol] Richard, he did. I think he got it working in the end tho'
[Fyron] You can also use the java applet on www.gamesnet.net
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] bye akachaki, to be specific.
[Exitium] Good reason to switch to C++ or Python.
[Exitium] Lots of real-time script interpreters.
[Shrapnel_Richard] I couldnt use the Ajva applet through my firewall but MIRC worked.
[Saint_Proverbius] Odd, the applet usually works when mirc doesn't.
[Fyron] oh
[Exitium] He's not here yet, Phule.
[Shrapnel_Richard] Actually we may have more options to help PBW out now that we have moved to a new hosting company. But nothing I can talk about now or promise.
[Fyron]
[Phule] [Sigh]
[Instar] Writing any kind of interpreter is tough, in any language
[S_Krol] Sorry Phule. Hopefully he'll be here shortly
[Malfador] My current plan is to create a semi-cutomizable form of ability. All of the abilities would be layed out in a data files using basic elements that are coded into the game. But I haven't given up hope on a script. I tend to think things up as I write them. I do much better work in the actual building then thedesign.
[SuicideJunkie] The forum should be able to collectively generate a decent set that will complement other abilities, so that there are an incredible number of useful combinations possible.
[Mephisto] a pascal script language can be found here: http://www.carlo-kok.com/ifps3.php
[Saint_Proverbius] Why bother with an interpreter when you can use something like python or java for scripting?
[Fyron] What would be really cool would be to remove all of the "only X comp/facility' damage types, and instead, have "only family X", so we can customize our damages ad infinitum
[Malfador] And its not really the Interpreter (I wrote a few of those in school), its more the meanings of how the features impact the game. And what core elements you create to provide the access to the game data.
[Fyron] And to make the "4x to shields" type stuff instead use percent values
[Fyron] At least for SE5...
[Mephisto] You have to understand us, Aaron. We are just fanatic SE Modders.
[Shrapnel_Richard] That you guys are
[Fyron] Indeed.
[Fyron] SOme of us have even written tutorials on it.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] how 'bout just fanatic?
[SuicideJunkie] Negative ability amounts, too You can make all kinds of cool, unexpected effects there!
[Mephisto] Really?
[Instar] fanatic is only a 't' and a 's' from fantastic
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] a weapon that heals ships.
[Malfador] But like I said, write it and send it. Create a list of the abilities and values you'd like to see in SE5 (as if SE5 used the same data files as SE4). I'll definitely take them into account when designing the new data files.
[Malfador] Some of my best friends are fanatics!
[Mephisto] Any plans to have a more complex damage system in SE5?
[DavidGervais] thanks Aaron (oh you didn't mean me?) lol
[Fyron] How about armor that isnt an invincible wall till it is all gone, then it does nothing?
[Malfador] A damage system more like Starfury?
[SuicideJunkie] Armor like SE3 is awesome! Punch a hole, and start leaking damage through it
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] maybe a chance of penatrating shots based on % of armor left (i didn't read Fyrons mind. really)
[Mephisto] Exactly, Narf.
[Instar] With the facings? wouldnt that be too much micromanagement?
[Fyron] Maybe/
[Saint_Proverbius] There's never too much management in turn based.
[Instar] or maybe % chance to hit internal based on power of hit and how much armor is left
[Spazmo] Thanks
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] not if there where an ai to handle it. (yep, just load up MM )
[Fyron] But at least some randomness in the damage getting through the armor layer
[SuicideJunkie] I modded SE3 to allow 0kt armor, so I could stuff in 30, 1hp armor on all my ships and put 2-3 armor between every internal component They could take torpedoes like nobody's business
[Mephisto] I would love a damage system that damages a ship before its defenses are down.
[Exitium] Turn based ] real time
[Exitium] Remember that well, folks.
[Fyron] Also, "phasing" and "armor-skipping" should use penetration and protection levels, and not just phased or non-phased
[SuicideJunkie] Multiple damage types in a single weapon, too. Partly phased weapons that do 5 phased and 20 normal, etc.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] % chances to penatrate.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] % chances to detect cloaked ships.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] % chances to detect cloaked ships.
[Malfador] The combat in SE4 (and SE5) is a fine line between micromanagement and fun. I've received numerous requests to have shield facings in combat, but do you really want that? How can anyone manage the facings of 50 ships in combat?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] % EVERYTHING!
[Fyron] MOO2?
[Fyron] That game handled it fairly well
[Instar] I would think that the ship would just reroute shield power to compensate, lowering all shields
[Fyron] With movement costs to turn too
[Saint_Proverbius] That's what AI is for, Aaron. Manage the ships you want, then let the AI do the others.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] in moo2, i just let the ai handle the 50.
[Instar] or maybe you could give a fleet order for it
[SuicideJunkie] During strategic combat, the facings don't really matter to the players, and tactical combat junkies like me would be happy
[Fyron]
[Instar] for example, if you are charging the enemy head on, put all powre in front sheilds
[Fyron] That is assuming the mechanics are such that you can do that...
[Malfador] But no one is 100% happy with an AI. Having to rely on an AI to move your ships not only makes you wish you didn't have to, but what's the fun of having a game play itself?
[Instar] True
[Saint_Proverbius] Use the AI for the obsolete fodder.
[Fyron] It is an option Aaron. You can move all the ships if you want to.
[Phoenix-D] ..which ends up breaking down to "move all the ships or loose."
[Mephisto] What bothers me with all the games out there is that a ship is fine until its shields are down and after the shields are down it is dead in no time. It?s a bit binary: either you are alive or dead (most of the time).
[Phoenix-D] lose, rather
[SuicideJunkie] Unless its a simultaneous game. PBW works quite well with the AI playing out all the combats.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] option for which ships are under ai control.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] or have fleet leaders.
[Saint_Proverbius] Speaking of which, for Starfury 2, why not make the gamestate use the exact same one as SE5?
[Saint_Proverbius] Where you get missions based on the needs of the AI from SE5 that runs the governments?
[Fyron] Mephisto, that definitely sucks
[Fyron] Ever try leaky armor and shields?
[SuicideJunkie] Mephisto has a good point... more partial damage to many ships during combat would be a nice touch. Shields modded to be leaky, and area effect weapons would do a lot for that.
[Malfador] Sorry, I'm not really a wargamer at heart, just a gamer. I like enough detail in a game to make it fun, but not turn into micromanagement hell.
[Instar] area effect weapons, definately for SE5, we need HUGE explosions
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] don't want to much micro-M either.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] yeah, BOOM!
[Fyron] That is fine. Sheild facings are not necessary, but some randomness to how much the defenses can block at a time is necessary
[Instar] like anti-matter that goes friggin BOOM!
[Exitium] It's not exactly micromanagement hell to have leaky shields.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] but it may be to have sheild facings.
[Instar] Id rather not have leaky shields until they get to about 5% or whatever
[SuicideJunkie] Yep, leaky shields are just a fact of life under the game physics.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] moddable!
[Malfador] Sorry, things are scrolling too fast. I was still talking about having shield facings in combat.
[Fyron]
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] shh.
[Instar] heres a question: In tactical combat as it is, a SEIV ship can turn in one square
[Instar] Will SE5 have better physics in that regards?
[Exitium] It's space, instar.
[SuicideJunkie] The ability to handle/mod in newtonian physics would be nice.
[Malfador] The plan right now is to have real-time combat in SE5 such that ships move and fire much like they do in Starfury.
[Mephisto] Will we be able to save games in simultaneous games in SE5? Please?
[Malfador] Correction - pausable real-time. You can pause at any time to give orders to your ships.
[Exitium] You don't need to go forward in order to turn your ship.
[Fyron] No, but it does take propulsion
[Exitium] it's not like you're 'grounded on air'
[Instar] well, yes, but the turn rate is insane in SEIV, you can turn around instantly, in SF, you have to take some time to do a 360
[Exitium] ever hear of thrusters, fyron?
[Fyron] You can just turn around and do a maximum distance move in SE4
[Fyron] Exitium, it still takes time and thrust!
[Exitium] i guess you have a point there.
[Fyron] You should not be able to do a 180 and do a full-burn movement all at once
[Exitium] it should take up half a turn at least.
[Malfador] Yes, I want ships to take up the correct amount of space, and move / turn relative to their size.
[Exitium] that's how mech games handle it. half a turn.
[Phule] Actually, there is the possibility of turning without using thrust - gyroscopes will allow for it.
[Fyron] Yay!
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] well, if it's real-time, that'll solve itself.
[Exitium] ugh
[Exitium] no
[Exitium] real time is horrible, truly.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] Pauseable real-time.
[Exitium] even worse
[Malfador] How is pausable real-time any different than turn-based?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] so, no click-fest.
[Exitium] less detail, more 'clickity click click'
[Saint_Proverbius] You're joking, right?
[WolfCatBot] Turn-Based not need pausey for break, sir?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] time to study every aspect of the tactical situation.
[Exitium] compare... JA2 to UFO: aftermath
[SuicideJunkie] One thing that annoys me is the "everybody fire at one ship" that goes on. Makes it hard to keep all my ships damaged but alive
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] time to truly get a grasp of things.
[Fyron] Pure turn based has a lot of silly idiosyncracies...
[Mephisto] Will we be able to save games in simultaneous games in SE5? Please?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] time to wait for your enemy to fall asleep.
[Exitium] JA2 was turn based and allowed plenty of nifty things like climbing buildings, sniping from windows and so forth. AFtermath just has you running through a maze of buildings.
[Fyron] You can get by them with initiative systems
[Fyron] Bascially, pausible real-time takes the initiative phases to their infintesimal limit.
[Fyron] IT is the same thing.
[Exitium] the reason is because its harder to implement 'nifty things' in a pausable real time system
[Fyron] How so?
[Saint_Proverbius] It's most certainly NOT the same thing.
[Exitium] due to the fact that you'd have to micromanage too much in too little a period.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] initiative systems still have problems.
[Fyron] It is not the same as pure turn based, no, because it is realistic and gets rid of silly things like all my ships firing before yours have a chance to go
[Instar] One thing in the SE series that Ive noticed is that we need better SFX,like more impressive explosions
[SuicideJunkie] I'd think you could do more nifty things in realtime. Dodging bullets and stuff
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] why? your both strat gamers, you both want to take your time.
[Exitium] suicide: um..
[Shrapnel_Richard] Hey guys, did we come here to talk to each other or ask Aaron questions?
[Exitium] you cant dodge bullets in real time.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] yep.
[Exitium] you can do that in turn based sequences, though.
[Fyron] Well it was about what Aaron said
[Exitium] in real time it just becomes a click/action fest.
[Instar] Or maybe 3D sounds, like you can hear the fighter whizz by
[Exitium] What's the freakin point?
[Exitium] There's too many games on the market which cater to the 'dodge bullets' category.
[Mephisto] Please, guys...
[Exitium] So go play those.
[WolfCatBot] Spaceyships fire bullets, meow? ?
[SuicideJunkie] If its pausable, or a "give orders then play 30seconds realtime using those orders, then repeat" type deal.
[Fyron] So Aaron, I don't think the Fate Shrines are working...
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] i do think the orders should be general, though.
[Exitium] It's really sickening to see just about every game there is trying to be like each other.
[Fyron] They don't seem to have any effect on where events hit in my tests
[Exitium] There's got to be some variety, at the very least.
[Exitium] And that variation shouldn't be miniscule. It should be big.
[Fyron] So back to the purpose of the chat please...
[Fyron] I narrowed it down to just 2 systems, and used insanely high abilities on the Fate Shrine, and still got 50/50 event distributions
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] spaceyships fire missiles and lasers, to!
[WolfCatBot] Way cool :D
[Instar] the purpose of the chat? wasnt the point to glorify MM?
[Mephisto] All hail MM!
* Fyron hails MM!
[Shrapnel_Richard] [bows to MM]
[SuicideJunkie] Hear, Hear!
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] i thought i was here to have fun.
[Mephisto] no
* NarfPoitChezBOOM hails on MM
[Mephisto] better
[Fyron] Richard, that is what the /me command is for
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] woosh.
[Instar] I mean, what other game lets you conquer the ENTIRE FRIGGIN GALAXY?
[Hugh_Manatee] Y(^..^)Y hail
[Fyron] Is Aaron even still here?
[Exitium] EV nova.
[Shrapnel_Richard] Yes Fryon, I know. Trying to actually do work while keeping up with the chat.
[Malfador] ....... what what? did someone say my name?
[Fyron] Yes
[Instar] Now if only Aaron would give me the tools to take the real galaxy over, then my plans will be complete
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] well, Malfador is listed under Voice.
[Exitium] star control 1, 2, 3. pax imperia 2. i could come up with a list...
[Mephisto] Will we be able to save games in simultaneous games in SE5? Please?
[Saint_Proverbius] Fyron: Actually, if I wanted to get nitpicky, the purpose of the chat would be more along the lines of Starfury and not SEIV patches and the future of SE5.
[WolfCatBot] List, sir? ?
[Rollo] Aaron, are the directional topedoes working in Starfury. and if yes, how do they work?
[DavidGervais] Aaron, a question about Starfury,.. will there be robomining in the future?
[Malfador] Save games in simultaneous games? No, that's just wrong....
[Fyron] So Aaron, I don't think the Fate Shrines are working... They don't seem to have any effect on where events hit in my tests. I narrowed it down to just 2 systems, and used insanely high abilities on the Fate Shrine, and still got 50/50 event distributions
[Malfador] Just kidding, sure why not.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] list? missiles and beams and bullets, oh my!
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] specific?
[WolfCatBot] Whirr?
[Exitium] Ion Projection Cannons!
[Mephisto] Great! This was requested by many of my friends and Co-Players. If you do your turn at 23:00 hours and can't save till 01:00, that's bad.
[Malfador] Robominers? Using a certain robo-mining model someone created? Yes, I hope to put it in.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] depleted uranium cannons!
[Exitium] That's a horrible feature, Meph.
[Rollo] Aaron, are the directional topedoes working in Starfury. and if yes, how do they work?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] directional torpedo?
[Malfador] I believe directional torpedoes are working, but there are no examples in Starfury. The graphic comes out looking a little funnny.
[DavidGervais] model or not I think it would be a nice feature. Heck just the ability to do something with those nice asteroids would be nice.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] how many chats can we get going at once?...
[DavidGervais] I grinned from ear to ear when someone suggested the ability to blast the asteroids, Like getting a free game within a game.
[Fyron] LOL
[Instar] asteroids... haha, how old school can you get
[Mephisto] Can we get a turn rate for missiles and stuff?
[Instar] other than pong
[Rollo] what is the purpose of the drictional torpedoes then? would they follw a target like a seeker, but can be shot down by PD?
[DavidGervais] hey, I'm a 43 year old fart, mind your maners.
[Instar] I could still school you at Doom II david
[Malfador] Directional Torpedoes are just torpedoes with a turn rate.
[SuicideJunkie] I think the choice of graphic mode should be independent of weapon type. Of course, you can't really use torpedo shapes for a beam weapon, but you can choose wether your cannon shots are standing up like a seeker, or laying down like a bolt.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] ah. thanks.
[Rollo] *errr can't be shot by PD
[DavidGervais] I don't remember seeing any PD lasers in SF will there be some in the future?
[SuicideJunkie] Directional torpedoes would be seekers with a limited turning rate, as I understand it.
[Instar] there are PDC in SF
[Fyron] Aaron, you should get some fans to make the official AI files for SE5.
[SuicideJunkie] I made a PDLaser for P&N-ism, DG.
[Malfador] PD lasers should be possible. Actually, it might be possible now through modding. We should try it in the next Starfury beta patch.
[DavidGervais] PDC (fire bolts) not beams
[Instar] ooooooooh
[SuicideJunkie] The problem is they cut off immediately after firing since they aren't in arc. So I cranked the damage to 50 or so in order to do about 2 damage per hit.
[Fyron] SJ, werent their some issues with those? Or was that trying to use the auto-fire to target ships?
[DavidGervais] The PDC have a limited range of something like 40, beams would provide a longer range defense.
[SuicideJunkie] They do go Zap-Zap-Zap nicely though
[Exitium] It's like you're their dealer, and you're providing them with their fix, Aaron.
[Mephisto] Who did all the .X models for SF?
[Fyron] Exitium, exactly!
[Rollo] Aaron, will you provide a modding guide for Starfury like you did for DO? The data files can be confusing at times ;-)
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] some people need sunlight. badly.
[Malfador] The problem is most likely in the source code. Having auto-firing weapons is a resource hog since they have to actively check for any incoming weapon at your ship. I most likely set the check radius low so that they wouldn't eat up all the spare frames.
[Malfador] Yes, a modding doc is top of the list for Starfury. I just didn't get the time to write out a nice one.
[Exitium] Can't you do it the way AMS works in Mechwarrior?
[DavidGervais] what spare frames? (just kidding) LOL
[Instar] Well you could have the missile notify the target when it gets in range?
[Instar] Hmm, sorry to bring hardcore programming into this
[Exitium] That is, any 'hits' scored by a missile has to make a check against the AMS system to see if it is hit or if it's deflected by the AMS.
[Exitium] Rather than having it as a radius-based thingy.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] still has to check every missile and distance.
[Exitium] Just the ones that hit you, Narf.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] yes, but you have to check to know which ones hit.
[Instar] that would look wrong, think about it, the missile would hit you and THEN the missile would decide to do damage
[SuicideJunkie] You should be able to order your PDC to fire on missiles heading for friendly craft... especially in defend-the-ship-missions.
[Exitium] You could argue that the guidance system of the AMS only checks for those which it tracks as potential hits, rather than those potential misses.
[Exitium] This is why it'd be easier to do in Turn based.
[Malfador] The X file models were created by two talented game artists named Tim Spanjer and Zeke Mass. Game models have specific requirements that they not use too many polygons and are created from one texture file.
[Exitium] because the hit/miss would be scored before the animation plays.
[Instar] Now Im thinking in OO terms, you all make me sick
[Exitium] Whereas in real time you have to handle hits and misses in, well, real time.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] OO?
[Exitium] object oriented.
* Instar thinks "abstraction.... hmmm, objects!"
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] ah. thanks.
[Mephisto] Any tips for programs that can create X models?
[Instar] I actually got to use the word modularity in my interview today
[Hugh_Manatee] gee narf is not good with abriviations.....
[Exitium] Like I said, turn based is an abstraction, and makes these sorts of things not stress the system as much as a real time engine would.
[WolfCatBot] And it's cute, too
[Instar] You turn based zealot
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] well, i'm nowhere near a hardcore programmer. and i've never been on more than one fourm.
[Malfador] Instar, you win a prize! Your suggestion on having the missle notify the target is the correct way to do it. With time, I should change it to the correct way of doing things.
[Exitium] And it's a helluva lot easier to make turn based do what you want it to do. Real time allows for way, way too many anomalies.
[Instar] Woohoo
[Fyron]
[Instar] Whats my prize!?!?! Rock and roll I knew that graduate level text on advanced computer science would come in handy
[SuicideJunkie] Aaron, what about when missiles hit objects that aren't the target?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] i still don't see the difference between checking every missile against every ship or every ship against every missile.
[SuicideJunkie] Such as a planet, or me when I'm trying to defend somebody by blocking shots.
[Instar] Narf, you have to do that 30 times EVERY second
[Instar] any calculation done by the engine has to be done that many times
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] so? a*b is the same as b*a.
[DavidGervais] Here's a new question for you Aaron,.. "Any chance of making use of the mouse scroll wheel to adjust ship speed in SF?"
[Instar] Yeah, the missile could just notify all ships in opposing factions
[Exitium] That'd be a hog, for sure.
[Malfador] Checking every possible nearby object to see if its something to shoot is a time killer in a real-time game. Since the missile know who its going to hit, only one message needs to get sent and that's very quick. For missiles hitting other objects, the same is true but with a little more processing.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] so, then someone would notice missiles going through freindly ships.
[SuicideJunkie] Except the missile has to do calculations on the target's location already to figure out where to turn, so it can do the range calc at the same time.
[Instar] Agh this is turning into a friggin Comp Sci class
[Instar] but I won the prize!!!
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] and i'm helping:-O
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] me, starting an intelectual discusion...
[Malfador] Instar: Your prize is a life of having people give you strange looks when you talk about how computers work. But you get a lot of respect from the game developers!
[Instar] Oh, they do that already
[Malfador] Scroll Wheel, what's a scroll wheel.
[Fyron]
[Instar] My roommate talked about a programming language for sanitation workers when he heard "garbage handling" in java
[Fyron] You just don't like scroll wheels, do you?
[WolfCatBot] Wheel thingy in-between left and right mousey button, whirr
[Malfador] What has a Scroll Wheel done for me lately?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] tried one once, liked it.
[Instar] Is the scroll wheel even implemented in the DX interface?
[Fyron] Nothing, cause you don't let us use them in your games.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] well, it can get you on a roll.
[Instar] DirectInput might have that, I dunno, Im not proficient with that API
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] i think i got an imitater!
[Mephisto] What PC do you have at home, Aaron?
[Instar] wow that other dude hasnt shown up yet has he?
[Katchoo] Why not tie missle identification to the System Radar Map? When a missle gets launched, it's automatically picked up by the radar and your ship/defenses activate upon that notice.
[Instar] Katchoo: but then how will you determine whether or not that the missile is in range of your PD things?
[Saint_Proverbius] No, he hasn't. Therefore, there will be more batmobile jokes involving Crosscut's Adam West in RPG Codex's future news posts.
[Instar] I thought I knew the name adam west from somewhere
[Malfador] PC: I've got 3 of them. Main development PC is a 1GHz, Windows ME, GEForce2. New Laptop Dell 2 GHz, Windows XP, GeForce4. Old Laptop 500 Mhz, Windows 2000.
[S_Krol] Yeah guys, I apologize that Crosscut hasn't shown up. I'm sure it's just technical problems on his end.
[Exitium] WOw, they're all shittier than my rigs.
[Instar] ah, looks like Aaron likes Nvidia
[Malfador] I tend to not use the latest and greatest machine for development since not many people have those.
[Saint_Proverbius] Don't sweat it, Scott. I would have made those batmobile jokes anyway.
[Instar] Very true
[SuicideJunkie] What kind of SF frame rates do you get on your machine?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] holy bad batman, jokes!
[Instar] Has anyone seen the specs on the latest though? like Serial ATA stuff? or maybe the 3.2 P4s? holy crap!
[Malfador] 30 - 50 FPS depending on situation.
[Exitium] Instar: Try the Extreme Edition Intels.
[Exitium] I'm getting one of those babies for christmas.
[S_Krol] Heh. All right folks, gotta walk some dogs. Have a great night!
[Katchoo] If you use the System Radar as a GPS system, then the game would theoretically know where everything is at any time. The moment a missle launches the game gives the ship/defenses a warning to activate based on the distance/placement of the missle in relation to your ship.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] um...bye, S_Krol?
[Instar] Man, I crap my pants thinking about running a P4 extreem
[WolfCatBot] Goodnight, sir
[SuicideJunkie] Maybe I should try using only one monitor and fullscreen mode... I only get 10 or so
[Instar] figuratively
[WolfCatBot] P4 Extremey? ?
[Malfador] I actually run it in Windowed mode to allow for better debugging.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] so, you'd have to go to the bathroom in the forum?
[Fyron] I still don't get great frame rates....
[Shrapnel_Richard] S Krol = our PR person
[Instar] Whats your specs fyron
[Mephisto] All MM games except SF do not have a CD checker. Why SF?
[WolfCatBot] He has puppies, Shrapnel sir?
[Saint_Proverbius] And a mighty fine PR person he is.
[DavidGervais] I'm limited to 1024x768, and thw windowed mode works but spills over the screen.
[Fyron] 2 GHz P4, 64 MB GeForce 4, 512 MB ram (RD or DDR...)
[DavidGervais]
[Shrapnel_Richard] I guess
[WolfCatBot] Hehe That's cools :D
[Instar] Huh, Fyron, you ought to be pulling the same as I do
[Instar] I get maybe 60 or so
[TerranC] What's a frame rate?
[Malfador] Its the start of a horrible trend... Piracy prevention. We just can't let the games be ripped off so easily anymore. We lost a lot of sales on SE4 to pirates.
[Fyron] I got like 3 FPS for several beta versions...
[Fyron] Now I get around 15-20...
[Instar] That sucks, I dunno fyron
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] 2 years from now, 3.2 will be meduim.
[Shrapnel_Richard] I need to try it on my wife's laptop, she just got a sweet new machine with a 17 inch wide widescreen.
[Exitium] Are you planning to install Securom?
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] rate of screen updates.
[Saint_Proverbius] One thing, Richard. Most game companies have women as PR people, so you might have to spring for one of those Swiss operations for Scott to follow the trend.
[Instar] Well, I know its more of a publisher issue, just hope we dont safedisc
[Fyron] Yeah.
[Exitium] Safedisc and Securom are useless.
[Instar] NWN has huge issues with SecureROM or Safedisc
[Shrapnel_Richard] It's not a publisher issue, we don't push copy protection.
[Shrapnel_Richard] Safedisc is ridiculous.
[Exitium] You can crack through them like a hot knife through butter without much difficulty.
[Instar] With bioware, they are forced to by atari
[Saint_Proverbius] This is why I love Shrapnel.
[Exitium] They cause games to crash, too.
[Exitium] Warcraft 3 randomly hangs up on me.
[Mephisto] Any estimates how many copies SE4 were lost due to piracy?
[Instar] so no copy protection schemes for the forseeable future shrapnel?
[Instar] other than CD check
[Exitium] You could use an online checker.
[Exitium] EV Nova uses that.
[Instar] meph: too many
[Instar] online checker?
[Exitium] Yes.
[Mephisto] 1 is to many, too.
[Katchoo] Aaron or Richard, have either of you gone after anyone for software piracy?
[Exitium] It connects to an online server for registration purposes.
[Exitium] Of course, it's crackable too.
[Shrapnel_Richard] Not as a publisher policy, developers can do as they wish. We're a pretty hands off publisher.
[Shrapnel_Richard] I have, many times.
[Instar] wow, that has to suck for non internet gamers
[Exitium] But it would be much more effective than securom or safedisc, by far.
[Shrapnel_Richard] Even had the FBI involved.
[Instar] Maybe CD keys
[Exitium] Instar: hmm, point noted. Guess it's not viable.
[Exitium] cd keys? crackable.
[Mephisto] Large scale, Richard?
[Malfador] Nope, its pretty hopeless. And the CD check is only to stop simple copying by casual users.
[TerranC] that's nice to know
[Katchoo] Sweet! Kick some butt Richard (y)
[Exitium] They're cracked on a 0-day basis just like everything else.
[Saint_Proverbius] Richard: You should put a list of people convicted of pirating Shrapnel games on your site.
[Instar] Yeah, but one more thing, and if PBW cooperated, they could only let one copy of the CD play
[Shrapnel_Richard] No, just site by site. The sites link to our site with a graphic. I pull a web log report and track them down that way. Pretty silly.
[Exitium] Seeing as how the SF games aren't multiplayer enabled there's really no point in having cd keys.
[Exitium] Because they're only useful for Half Life and Warcraft 3, which many people play online.
[Shrapnel_Richard] We haven't had anyone convicted, just warned.
[Exitium] Forces the pirates to go out and buy them.
[TerranC] you should chase them down rich
[Saint_Proverbius] Hah.. hahahhahaha.. You've GOT to be kidding me.
[Exitium] I foresee a future where 90% of the games released are multiplayer-based.
[Exitium] Because that's the only way companies can make a profit.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] give it away free. 0 piracy!8-O
[Fyron] But 0 profit...
[Instar] And whos gonna buy Aaron food then Narf?
[Instar] Aaron needs food!
[TerranC] the royal fans Instar.
[Malfador] stomach grumbling....
[Saint_Proverbius] NO SOUP FOR YOU!
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] that's why the idiot face.
[Exitium] If games were cheaper there'd probably be a lot less pirates.
[Instar] My brothers and sisters, our good friend Aaron needs food, send us your Krispy Kremes and your hoagies!
[Exitium] But publishers dont realize how much games cost in money other than US currency.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] if there where less pirates, there'd be less parot perches.
[TerranC] 20 of us will buy the bread... 30 of us the soup... and when we've got everything together, we freeze-pack it and send it to Aaron!
[Exitium] Or perhaps they do, but dont care.
[Mephisto] Oh yea, any plans to release localised MM games?
[Exitium] And that's why games are pirated by the shipload in China.
[Malfador] Well I hate to say it, but its dinner time (seriously!).
[WolfCatBot] Hoagies, rowr? ?
[Instar] Wow, read his mind
[Exitium] Because nobody cares about the fact that nobody there can really afford to buy games sold in US prices.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] well, goodbye then.
[Exitium] Cya then Aaron.
[Saint_Proverbius] Aaron: Thanks for coming!
[Rollo] goodbye Aaron
[Fyron] Cya Aaron!
[Katchoo] Don't have KFC, Aaron (it's killing me tonight)
[Exitium] Good luck battling the pirates.
[Instar] Adios
[TerranC] sending thoughts of food over the internet
[WolfCatBot] Bye byes, sir
[Mephisto] CU!
[Katchoo] Nite Aaron, and thanks!
[DavidGervais] personally, I think there IS a price point where piracy will be less of an issue, but no company has had the guts to lower prices to test this theory.
[Hugh_Manatee] bye
[Malfador] MMmmmmmm, KFC.
[TerranC] KFC = Ugh
[Exitium] David: it's pretty dumb because they're losing most of their sales to real-life piracy rather than online piracy.
[Fyron] KFC is good.
[DavidGervais] Have a great night Aaron
[Malfador] Thanks for the questions everybody! We'll have to do this again sometime!
[Exitium] In places other than america.
[NarfPoitChezBOOM] greasy. not bad, but greasy.
[Exitium] Mainly china.
[Instar] yaaaaaaaay
[TerranC] Pizza hut is good
[DavidGervais] I'll catch you tomorrow.
[Fyron] In #se4 next time@
[Fyron] !
[DavidGervais] Cheers!
[Fyron]
[Instar] I won the prize! I won the prize
[Instar] bye
[Malfador] See you on the forums! Goodnight.
[TerranC] Send us free games!
[Fyron]
* Malfador has left #RPGCodex

Thanks to Aaron Hall of Malfador as well as Scott and Richard of Shrapnel Games for showing up and fielding the questions!