The worst game ever and start of the decline

[MetalCraze]

Homeworld was a shitty dumbed down game

Also EOBs are shitty dumbed down games

They lack C&C and tactics.

 

[KalosKagathos]

Because we are blaming first person perspective!

I don't have a slightest idea about what some of you morons are blaming because you can blame completely different things when discussing different games. In one thread C&C is the holy grail of game design and what defines the genre, in another it's shit for LARPing kids, and tactical TB combat is what RPGs really are about. Everyone starts cracking jokes when a Mass Effect thread pops up in General RPG Discussion, yet nobody raises an eyebrow at Pathologic being discussed there.

What I'm getting at is that for a lot of you the letters "RPG" seem to be a seal of quality of some kind; if a game is good then it's an RPG, if it's bad then it's a shooter for console faggots. Guess what, asshats, it doesn't really work that way. Shooters aren't inherently bad, and RPGs aren't inherently good. Even if you try to clone a damn good RPG like Fallout you may still end up with a turd if the designer is a talentless idiot (just look at AoD), yet it still will be an RPG, just a bad one. Similiarly, Mass Effect is a bad RPG, and Pathologic is an excellent adventure/survival horror game.

Why can't a site dedicated to RPGs get something basic like this right? I blame self-righteous dumbfucks from Eastern Europe who appear to be a real infestation in this corner of the net.

If they were "always" dumbed down it may simply be the collective lack of experience with the computer medium. It's when they start regressing that there's no excuse.

But who decides what's regress and what's not? I personally know several guys who grew up in the 80s, like combat-heavy RPGs of today and think that they are a return to what makes the genre good. Are they console scum who can't be exterminated soon enough?

 

[Hory]

Throwing away C&C? There was no C&C to begin with.

Dark Sun.

I knew you will eventually put these two in the same sentence.

Everyone knows what's wrong with Diablo.

You do know that MMORPG Neverwinter Nights which had a 7 years run

It was nowhere near as popular.

and these evil dumbed down shitty HoMMs came out before Diablo?

Well, they were part of the same current of mainstreamization. HoMM3 was the most popular one and that came after Diablo.

But the connection to Counter-Strike completely evades me.

I said what the connection was. The successful replacement of intelligent gameplay with repetitive realism. Ask the average gamer of a decade ago what his favorite games are and you'll get these three: CS, Diablo and HoMM3. I have personal experience with this.

You missed a lot when Codexers played D2 hardKKKore ladder.

Not really. At time I was playing games with friends too - good ones.

Dune 2 and those are shit games!

Yep, that's what the average Diablo fan thinks.

 

[Volourn]

"Dark Sun"

Exception that proves the rule. Most 'old skool' RPGs didn't know what C&C or role-playing was. They were, by and large, dungeon crawls. Period..

There was a lot more shit in the old days of gaming. This is a fact.

 

[Surgey]

Dork Sun

 

[Hory]

But who decides what's regress and what's not? I personally know several guys who grew up in the 80s, like combat-heavy RPGs of today and think that they are a return to what makes the genre good. Are they console scum who can't be exterminated soon enough?

Intelligent people decide. If you know several guys who think in the same way they're probably not that intelligent, unless for a reason you only hang around particularly intelligent ones, which I don't think that most intelligent people necessarily try to do.
Also, popular P&P RPGs aren't particularly tactical either, if only because calculations aren't automated and each dose of complexity becomes tedious.

 

[MetalCraze]

Dark Sun.

Oh this fucking Diablo - there were like 2 or 3 games with 2 or 3 non-linear branches and it threw it all away and totally killed it, especially the non-linearity "boom" of late 90s. It killed C&C - the term that didn't even exist.

It was nowhere near as popular.

Because internet was unlimited and dirt cheap. And then MMORPG called Diablo came out and ruined it all - a highly successful Ultima Online which carries the same name as its deeply tactical single-player full-on-C&C prequels was having Diablo combat not tactical C&C Ultima combat RAGE

Well, they were part of the same current of mainstreamization. HoMM3 was the most popular one and that came after Diablo.

Goddamn Diablo - it was Diablo that made turn-based slow-paced HoMM3 which wasn't just an updated HoMM2 popular.

I said what the connection was. The successful replacement of intelligent gameplay with repetitive realism.

So that's how the real counter-terrorist operations are done - by strafing and bunny-hopping while scoring headshots in the process. Just like Diablo replaced intelligent gameplay with repetitive realism!

Ask the average gamer of a decade ago what his favorite games are and you'll get these three: CS, Diablo and HoMM3. I have personal experience with this.

Also Command & Conquer and Starcraft. And Doom which led to Halo - means every one of them is a very shitty dumbed down game. Well at least one of them is called C&C.
And Titanic was very popular too, that means good movies wasn't being made anymore.

 

[Hory]

Most 'old skool' RPGs didn't know what C&C or role-playing was. They were, by and large, dungeon crawls. Period..

The oldest CRPGs didn't have any, but the genre has to start somewhere. The next CRPGs at least had a story with some dialogue, optional quests and some reactions to your "mandatory choices". Diablo regressed even from that. It just had these rare information-bit-dispensing-NPCs. There's nothing happening in the world, the only choice is constantly "should I keep killing monsters or quit the game?".

 

[Black_Willow]

Well at least one of them is called C&C.

 

[MetalCraze]

Most 'old skool' RPGs didn't know what C&C or role-playing was. They were, by and large, dungeon crawls. Period..

The oldest CRPGs didn't have any, but the genre has to start somewhere. The next CRPGs at least had a story with some dialogue, optional quests and some reactions to your "mandatory choices". Diablo regressed even from that.

Fucking Diablo - it regressed from games that came out after its release date.

Come on Hory - you mention so many totally unrelated examples, but somehow forget about all those Diablo-clones that came out after its success and which flopped heavily.

Something you can't say about the current never-ending line of Shooter+Digits genre.

 

[Hory]

Oh this fucking Diablo - there were like 2 or 3 games with 2 or 3 non-linear branches and it threw it all away and totally killed it, especially the non-linearity "boom" of late 90s. It killed C&C - the term that didn't even exist.

Babies with no name can be killed too, not just established personalities.

Because internet was unlimited and dirt cheap. And then MMORPG called Diablo came out and ruined it all - a highly successful Ultima Online which carries the same name as its deeply tactical single-player full-on-C&C prequels was having Diablo combat not tactical C&C Ultima combat RAGE

I don't deny that Diablo's dark tendrils may have also tarnished UO's development.

Goddamn Diablo - it was Diablo that made turn-based slow-paced HoMM3 which wasn't just an updated HoMM2 popular.

It certainly helped fund it. I can see the HoMM3 publishers now, "HoMM2 WITH BETTER GFX HELL YEAH DID YOU SEE THE SALES ON DIABLO? DAYUM! WE'RE FINE AS LONG AS WE DON'T MAKE IT TOO COMPLICATED."

So that's how the real counter-terrorist operations are done - by strafing and bunny-hopping while scoring headshots in the process.

I didn't say that it's perfectly realistic. But they did try to make it more and more realistic, to the point that it harmed gameplay. I quit playing it when they finally added slowing after jumping (in Beta 6.7 or so).

Also Command & Conquer and Starcraft. And Doom which led to Halo - means every one of them is a very shitty dumbed down game. Well at least one of them is called C&C.

Or it means that your brain doesn't function right.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

what is this thread about again?

 

[Hory]

Fucking Diablo - it regressed from games that came out after its release date.

Conversations, quests and story reactivity came only after Diablo?

Come on Hory - you mention so many totally unrelated examples, but somehow forget about all those Diablo-clones that came out after its success and which flopped heavily.

Maybe they weren't dumbed down or pretty enough.

 

[DraQ]

what is this thread about again?

Venting undirected , I think.

 

[Black_Willow]

what is this thread about again?

doin' ur mom

 

[Emotional Vampire]

OP:
This one was worst

You take that back you smegma licker. You take that back NOW.

 

[Zomg]

Dragon's Lair was cool in an arcade/bowling alley/bar because everyone wanted to watch you play it, it's like paying money and spending time and in return you get to be the center of attention when you can run the whole thing on a quarter.

 

[denizsi]

Since Shadowcaster has been mentioned in the thread, here's a quick run down of one of the aspects of the decline in gaming:

Shadowcaster, regular version intro:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/shado ... tId,132588

Shadowcaster, "improved" CD version intro:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/shado ... hotId,2759

OP:
This one was worst

Wow, fixed camera feels incredibly smooth and good for a 3D game from 1996. Almost a testimony to how giving too much freedom & control to the player for the sake of it is a silly notion.

edit: added links to image pages.

 

[DraQ]

Since Shadowcaster has been mentioned in the thread, here's a quick run down of one of the aspects of the decline in gaming:

Shadowcaster, regular version intro:

Shadowcaster, "improved" CD version intro:

Also, don't link directly to mobygames pics, you faggot.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Why would semi-realism hurt gameplay? The few FPS that actually tried to be semi-realistic (Seal Team and OFP for example) are great games.

 

[ksjav]

Trying too hard... all of you! 1/10

 

[Burning Bridges]

The dungeons are in first person, obviously to lure in Halo faggots. Face it, RPGs have always been dumbed down for consoletards, even those that weren't actually released on consoles.

1st person or 3rd person is a matter of taste, has nothing to do with dumbing down or the decline. Sure the codex looks down on first person, but this is only because there are more people here who grew up with Interplay RPGs, and very few who got into groundbreaking games like Ultima Underworld. I also noticed that pre 1995 knowledge is very scarce, or how can it be explained that Ultima 7 is generally missing in codex "best of" threads, while Arcanum is praised to the heavens?

Shooters aren't inherently bad, and RPGs aren't inherently good.

:facepalm: it seems you have missed what we have been discussing all along, that almost all new games are shooters, and RPGs are shooters in disguise. Not what you imply here.

 

[denizsi]

I also noticed that pre 1995 knowledge is very scarce, or how can it be explained that Ultima 7 is generally missing in codex "best of" threads, while Arcanum is praised to the heavens?

Age demographic threads explain this pretty good and it speaks for what a lazy bunch of uninterested fuck-ups most of these young Codexers are, unwilling to "bother" with old games.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS I THINK THIS DISCUSSION IS GREAT SOMEONE WHO LEARNED WHAT GAMES TO LIKE FROM THE CODEX LIKE LAST FCKING YEAR IS GIVING US A GREAT HISTORICIL PRESESPECTIVE ON GAMING

 

[BLOBERT]

1st person or 3rd person is a matter of taste, has nothing to do with dumbing down or the decline. Sure the codex looks down on first person, but this is only because there are more people here who grew up with Interplay RPGs, and very few who got into groundbreaking games like Ultima Underworld. I also noticed that pre 1995 knowledge is very scarce, or how can it be explained that Ultima 7 is generally missing in codex "best of" threads, while Arcanum is praised to the heavens? [/quote

BRO YOU GET A BETTER PRESPECTIVE ON GAMES WHEN YOU GROW UP LIKKING HALP BUT THEN AN INTERNET FORUM TELLS YOU WHAT GAMES YOU HAVE TO LIKE TO BE COOL THAT IS HOW YOU REALLY LEARN BASICALLY ANY GAME MADE BEFORE 2000 IS GOOD AND BEFORE 1995 IS REALLY REALLY GOOD THE WORSE GRAPHICS THE BETTER BECAUSE IT MEENS YOU ARE MORE HARDCORE