Interview Dragon Age II's Old School Influences

[Dorf]

We've heard this from Laidlaw before, haven't we? I suspect the real reason people quit DAO was because it was boring. What will they think when those statistics remain the same for DA2?

That clearly means in wasn't streamlined/accessible enough. The same way certain morons think the way out of the financial crisis, that was caused (among others) by deregulation, is more deregulation. The same way the Mayas/Aztecs (can't keep those jungle niggers apart anyway) sacrificed a few thousand more people after the first few thousand didn't have the desired effect. The same way a baboon won't let go of a nut even if the can't pull his fist out of the hole and starves to death.

I'm just waiting how long it takes Bio to finally realize that they want to make (bad) action games with RPG elements and focus on (bad) story instead of real RPGs (with action elements)...

You get the win for stupid in trying to equate Bioware's obsession with sales and a larger market with a complexed economic crisis that was derived from OVER regulation, the FED's QE monetary policy, a congress and pres obsessed with home overnership rates, and GSEs Freddy and Fanny using the tax payer's purse to buy bad loans banks were forced by regulators to give, otherwise be labeled as red lining, and when those bad loans failed, as they always do, well then they were just predatory lending.

I suppose to fix the problem of there being no good RPGs we need stimulus money spent in the gaming world because throwing oodels of money at a problem instantly fixes it and makes it better and more efficient.

 

[20 Eyes]

BioWare's own player-tracking statistics tell a similar tale: a significant portion of Origins players had their own mystifying "other" moments, dropping the game after only an hour.
"They weren't even getting an Achievement," Laidlaw continues. The team was tempted to chalk those dropped players up to rentals, but the stats made it clear that people simply dropped the game.

I keep hearing this from Laidlaw in interviews. He isn't considering what I think is obvious, which is that the game gets significantly shittier after the introduction. I think the origins and the big battle scene were pretty well done, and then the game dives into the classic Biowarian formula of "Go to four places and then the last place will open up".

Also, some people likely had less tolerance for the game's many boring encounters.

Hopefully Bioware's data considered that people were probably trying out the different origins for the first hour until they found one they liked. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one, but you can't really tell how gathered this information just from Laidlaw's brief comments.

 

[RPGMaster]

BioWare are pussies.

They honestly have the worst case of self-esteem issues I have ever seen.

"Oh noes. Retarded kid Timmy Tankeritz from Abcjibibab didn't play our game for 700 hours. Let's completely change the game!"

This is why the gaming industry will forever be a piss-stain. No other form of entertainment or art would design their thing based on such facile reasons.

We no longer have talented people making the games they want to make, we have idiots pandering to idiots.

 

[mediocrepoet]

While dense, opaque games like Ultima steered BioWare toward gentler entry points, games like Planescape: Torment guided writer David Gaider as he started drawing out the story and characters of Dragon Age II. Unlike Origins, whose protagonist is malleable blank slate, DAII features Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall, complete with his own backstory and character arc. (Hawke's appearance and gender are entirely player-defined, though.)

"As soon as you provide a voiced player, you're stepping on the player's toes a little bit," Gaider explains. "On the other hand, there are RPGs that can do that: Planescape:Torment, I think, was one of the best RPGs of all time."

OMFG Gaider made his magnum opus inspired by PS:T! I can't wait to see the writing quality, depth of choices and characterizations that he came up with. This shit is gonna be AWWWSUUMMMMM!!!



Gaider might have more honestly told the interviewer: I played PS:T a few times and thought it was cool. I can't write that shit though, so decided to help craft a game with a backstory inspired by the writing quality of true classics such as Rastan and Golden Axe.

 

[Quetzacoatl]

People who liked New Vegas criticize DA for having bad writing and dumbing down?

Says the faggot who loved the steaming turd that is KOTOR and claimed Ultima Underworld helped cause the decline.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

That’s tough to read. If that’s how they feel over at Bioware then I'm wise not to consider Dragon Age 2. I quit DA after about 25 to 30 hours. I can offer a slew of reasons why and as a matter of fact I might go to their forum and post them however after the first hour I loved the game. The first hour and maybe the first 12 were excellent. It was better than any other Bioware game... then it slowly but damn well surely deteriorated into one of the worse and most clichéd roleplaying games I ever played.

 

[malko_sundervere]

We've heard this from Laidlaw before, haven't we? I suspect the real reason people quit DAO was because it was boring. What will they think when those statistics remain the same for DA2?

That clearly means in wasn't streamlined/accessible enough...

You get the win for stupid in trying to equate Bioware's obsession with sales and a larger market with a complexed economic...

Holy living fuck, when will you sons of bitches just shut the fuck up? This has nothing to do with *anything* and you should fucking go to GD if you want to rant at each other about your regurgitated, underdeveloped, and completely clueless armchair economic theories. There's a reason that forum exists; go create a thread where you can cry about it, all you're going to do is fucking drag Cleve in here.

NOW:

Planescape: Torment was a game that pulled off "predeveloped character" in a way that no other game could have; the predeveloped character was PERFECT for the plot, and the plot itself left a lot of room for such a thing not to seriously impact the game's roleplaying elements. Planescape: Torment is a very clear outlier in a long line of shitty railroaded JRPGs with no character customization. Bioware has to be pretty damn egotistical to think they can pull that off with THEIR writing skills.

 

[Volourn]

" iirc David Gaider implied more than once that he doesn't really care about gameplay and all he's interested in is the story. (which is ok as he's a writer not game designer, but that still say sa lot)"

Eh. That's why he got the job as writer not game playn designer. So, how does that say alot than the obvious. Diss Gaider for his writing (or praising) but deal with the lead gameplayd esigner when it comes to gameplay.

As for listenting to the customers. imo, Companies are betetr off ignoring fans outside of obvious broken shit. Make the game you want, publish it, pimp it, and get your sales that way.

Fuck the so called 'expert fan'. CXustioemrs don't even really know exactly what they want, and they sure as hell don't know what any other customer wants.

 

[SCO]

While dense, opaque games like Ultima steered BioWare toward gentler entry points, games like Planescape: Torment guided writer David Gaider as he started drawing out the story and characters of Dragon Age II. Unlike Origins, whose protagonist is malleable blank slate, DAII features Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall, complete with his own backstory and character arc. (Hawke's appearance and gender are entirely player-defined, though.)

"As soon as you provide a voiced player, you're stepping on the player's toes a little bit," Gaider explains. "On the other hand, there are RPGs that can do that: Planescape:Torment, I think, was one of the best RPGs of all time."

I felt a flicker of rage.

 

[Gosling]

" iirc David Gaider implied more than once that he doesn't really care about gameplay and all he's interested in is the story. (which is ok as he's a writer not game designer, but that still say sa lot)"

Eh. That's why he got the job as writer not game playn designer. So, how does that say alot than the obvious. Diss Gaider for his writing (or praising) but deal with the lead gameplayd esigner when it comes to gameplay.

He's a prominent member of the team though. This was written in response to the supposition that Bioware staff probably don't realize that they are making dumbed down action games now. I think they very well know that and embrace this design philosophy or just don't care. I'm certainly not blaming Gaider for the gameplay design decisions.

 

[Sceptic]

Planescape: Torment was a game that pulled off "predeveloped character" in a way that no other game could have; the predeveloped character was PERFECT for the plot, and the plot itself left a lot of room for such a thing not to seriously impact the game's roleplaying elements. Planescape: Torment is a very clear outlier in a long line of shitty railroaded JRPGs with no character customization. Bioware has to be pretty damn egotistical to think they can pull that off with THEIR writing skills.

Tom Hall also pulled it off. Yeah, the guy who "wrote" Wolfenstein 3D. Really, if an FPS designer can make a JRPG-stype fixed character work, why not a published author?

:trollface:

 

[xcessive303]

" iirc David Gaider implied more than once that he doesn't really care about gameplay and all he's interested in is the story. (which is ok as he's a writer not game designer, but that still say sa lot)"

Eh. That's why he got the job as writer not game playn designer. So, how does that say alot than the obvious. Diss Gaider for his writing (or praising) but deal with the lead gameplayd esigner when it comes to gameplay.

As for listenting to the customers. imo, Companies are betetr off ignoring fans outside of obvious broken shit. Make the game you want, publish it, pimp it, and get your sales that way.

Fuck the so called 'expert fan'. CXustioemrs don't even really know exactly what they want, and they sure as hell don't know what any other customer wants.

Unfortunately this just isn't realistic. Whereas companies used to operate like this in the past, all it comes down to now is money.

The video game industry is big business these days. A lot of the large companies aren't run by people who make games they are glorified accountants whose only concern is to increase profit.

This is why Bioware changed DA2 so dramatically. It is about selling as many copies as fast as possible. They just try and sugar coat it by saying the changes are what the fans want.

This is the reason why so many people are discontent with the industry as a whole.

 

[poetic codex]

This Laidlaw's guys comments seem to be aimed at deliberately trolling the codex. It's uncanny. I bet he browses these boards every now and then.

 

[Nael]

Maybe those people quit out of boredom? I'd really like to know how many end up quitting DA2 after an hour.

This. A thousand times this.

I'm halfway tempted to spend the fucking $60 on the dumb thing just to play an hour and quit to send them a message. But I don't think I could sleep at night knowing I gave such a worthless group of motherfuckers money. But I guess I pay taxes every day. Fuck. Moral dilemma.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Really, if an FPS designer can make a JRPG-stype fixed character work, why not a published author?:trollface:

King of Fighter and Arc System games have fully voiced fight dialog for dozens of characters with possible variations on which character encounters which and full character and plot development for each successive series. Arc System games also have choices and consequences with multiple endings for each character on top of that. It's about time modern RPGs stepped up to their legacy.

I'm halfway tempted to spend the fucking $60 on the dumb thing just to play an hour and quit to send them a message that they haven't made it stupid enough.

dude no

 

[Nael]

Yes. I see what you did there

 

[Clockwork Knight]

They weren't even getting an Achievement

Biggest problem of the game than seems to be: Not enough achievements. Existing achievements are too hard to get.

More of them should be added, beginning with: "Epic achievement of legends: You've started the game. Congratulations, hero."

You think you're making a witty joke, but that kind of achievement is pretty common. You're pretty much guaranteed one for completing the tutorial in some games.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

You think you're making a witty joke, but that kind of achievement is pretty common. You're pretty much guaranteed one for completing the tutorial in some games.

Dragon Age had this.

Fuck, don't most multiplatform games with combat give you an achievement for killing five enemies or something?

There is only one way to go now

"BUTTON PRESSER - You have pressed a button".

"BUTTON VETERAN - You have pressed buttons 1000 times."

"BUTTON MASTER - You have pressed buttons 100000 times."

 

[Miew]

It's got a lot of the aspects that made Baldur's Gate stand out and really work

Whad did they think made Baldur's Gate work? They probably think it's the NPC companions, because that's what the game is praised for again and again. But while these characters might add a nice little touch to the game, what really makes the BG games stand out to me is how their worlds are designed. Like dungeons where almost every room is unique in one way or another, be it in terms of enemies you encounter or people you meet.
The BG games also manage to convey a feeling of threat, whereas in the newer games you can just walz through everything, knowing for sure you won't hit a wall anywhere.

There's also a great mix between time spent in dungeons, towns and other areas, a lot of variety in enemies and how they behave, a lot of interesting and unique items to discover (not just "little bit better sword no 257"), some of the items from the first dungeon can be useful right to the end of the game (whereas in DA you know that you'll only find useless crap in the first areas of the game.)
You didn't think things like "Now I'm on a story mission" or "Now I'm on an optional side mission" because it all blended and interwove so smoothly, the way quests led you around to different areas, where you'd discover new quests (completely without any yellow exclamation marks) in a way that seemed natural.

And yet, these are exactly the things that have been gone from Biowares games ever since BG ended. Imagine Watcher's Keep in Dragon Age: Just an endless series full of rooms with enemies in them that drop weapons of gradually increasing strength. And an epic cutscene at the end.

 

[Volourn]

"some of the items from the first dungeon can be useful right to the end of the game"

O RLY?

 

[Nael]

Fuck I hate the phrase 'old-school'. Conjures up images a a cracker covered in chains and a backward baseball cap ala Marky Mark.

Is there not a new term that perhaps the prestigious RPG Codex magazine can create to replace it?

"DRM-Free"

 

[Brother None]

There is only one way to go now

"BUTTON PRESSER - You have pressed a button".

"BUTTON VETERAN - You have pressed buttons 1000 times."

"BUTTON MASTER - You have pressed buttons 100000 times."

The future

 

[Shannow]

"some of the items from the first dungeon can be useful right to the end of the game"

O RLY?

You get the best longsword in BG right outside Nashkel Mines. So even before the first dungeon. In BG2 if you can get Celestial Fury (and various outher goodies) very early. If you go for two-handers you may keep the Sword of Chaos (found in the first dungeon) very long. You'll probably also keep Baldurian's Helm (first dungeon) till the end (at least without Throne of Bhaal). Just to name a few examples.
Damn Volly, you were having a run, but this was a serious fuck-up.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

They weren't even getting an achievement.

THEY WEREN'T EVEN GETTING AN ACHIEVEMENT!!!??!?

EVEN?!

Hey, Laidlow, yes I misspelled your name intentionally, how about the fucking achievement of playing and finishing a game and then feeling good about that instead of getting some stupid fucking badge to stick on your gamer profile bullshit? Superficial fucking dorks. Gamers today, I swear to god we should round them all up and deport them to the moons of Saturn. Then we should give them all a badge. FIRST HUMAN ON SATURN'S MOONS. SECOND HUMAN ON SATURN'S MOONS. THIRD HUMAN ON SATURN'S MOONS. Now that'd be a fucking achievement, don't you think?

So angry! I need to listen to my Def Leppard CDs.

 

[Spectacle]

In case there's someone who hasn't seen it, here is the best game ever.