Game News Project Eternity Kickstarter Update #49: Prototype Demo

[St. Toxic]

Well, the perspective would of course not change, because it has a static perspective. So it does indeed show something, i.e. the static perspective.

But, but, but, the 'camera' you're using to view that bitmap doesn't have a fixed perspective. Right? Right?

EDIT: But real time 3D is still not useless with an isometric view. At least not if the camera can be moved parallel to the 2D plane / axis of the 3D projection. So this we still do not agree on.

If it's actually an isometric view with a fixed perspective, it is fucking pointless, because any hint other than the poly-noise that the objects you're viewing are 3-dimensional would simply not be there. Again, just imagine viewing a completely static image composed of 3d objects. If you're scrolling around without changing the perspective, you're never privy to any of the surfaces other than the ones you started out with.

 

[imweasel]

That's demonstratively untrue. You can create the same effect easily with layers of 2D-data.

Dynmic backgrounds like in Divinity: Original Sin are possible in 2D? lol. No fuckign way.

But feel free to prove the impossible.

Why would it be a negative trait?

It is a negative trait because you cannot simulate realistic perspective change in 2D. I have just shown you the video, did you even watch it?

For some systems you might want uniform representation without depth, which 3D environments are notoriously bad at. Think along the lines of Company of Heroes or Men of War, where you're always at risk of accidentally positioning your units where their line of fire is obscured by terrain or objects in the terrain.

Are you fucking kidding me?

This has to do with the collision model and has nothing to do with 3D geometry. You fucking retard. Christ.

 

[imweasel]

But, but, but, the 'camera' you're using to view that bitmap doesn't have a fixed perspective. Right? Right?

If you only rotate the bitmap, then the perspective does not change, no. But for the 5th fucking time (you retard), that is not what I meant.

If you move the camera parallel to the 2D plane / axis of the 3D projection then the perspective changes, or it should, because that is realistic.

The perspective in PE will not change because the backgrounds are static (2D) and not dynamic (3D). Do you understand now?

If it's actually an isometric view with a fixed perspective, it is fucking pointless,

No it isn't you moron. Watch the fucking videos of Divinity Original Sin already. The perspective is constantly and dynamicallly changing. In P:E this will never be the case because the backgrounds are static.

So many people have tried to explain this to you already, but you will never get it because of your utter retardation and inability to at least watch a damn video. Christ.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The perspective is constantly and dynamicallly changing.

That's not a true isometric camera, though, which is what he's talking about. A true isometric (parallel projection) camera wouldn't change the perspective.

 

[Infinitron]

Paging villain of the story for maximum rage

 

[St. Toxic]

Dynmic backgrounds like in Divinity: Original Sin are possible in 2D? lol. No fuckign way.

But feel free to prove the impossible.

It's far from impossible. Just think about multi-layered backgrounds in 2D platformers. It's a workaround created to simulate the effect of 3D.

It is a negative trait because you cannot simulate realistic perspective change in 2D. I have just shown you the video, did you even watch it?

More like a negative trait that you can't simulate uniform fixed perspectives in 3D. 2D has no problems emulating a phony third dimension graphically.

This has to do with the collision model and has nothing to do with 3D geometry. Christ.

It has nothing to do with the collision model, as the model is accurate. It has to do with the fact that from a top-down view it's next to impossible to accurately gage minute variations in terrain. When, on top of that, you're having to account for perspective changes in order to make efficient strategical decisions, you end up with soldiers shooting holes in the ground in the most unrealistic fashion. Imagine that, highly trained specialists wasting their ammo on shooting dirt because, despite it looking uniform, there are tiny increments of terrain in the way of their bullets.

If you only rotate the bitmap, then the perspective does not change, no. But for the 5th fucking time (you retard), that is not what I meant.

If you move the camera parallel to the 2D plane / axis of the 3D projection then the perspective changes, or it should, because that is realistic.

The perspective in PE will not change because the backgrounds are static (2D) and not dynamic (3D). Do you understand now?

But why would it matter what the camera is looking at, rite? The camera doesn't have a fixed perspective, rite? So, go look at a 2D image and move the camera, see if the perspective changes.

No it isn't you moron. Watch the fucking videos of Divinity Original Sin already. The perspective is constantly and dynamicallly changing. In P:E this will never be the case because the backgrounds are static.

So many people have tried to explain this to you already, but you will never get it because of your utter retardation and inability to at least watch a damn video. Christ.

Original what? Is it a 2D isometric game where the perspective changes? Mein Gott, the things they can do with technology these days.

 

[Kosmonaut]

This thread.

 

[Cosmo]

ITT Dumb and Dumber are reinventing the wheel...

 

[Jaesun]

 

[J_C]

 

[St. Toxic]

Well, apparently a wheel has to be 3-dimensional in order to function in a 2d environment.

 

[J_C]

With or without vectors?

 

[St. Toxic]

That depends. Do you want your isometric graphics to have a dynamic perspective?

 

[CrazyLoon]

 

[Smejki]

I have fallen in love with St. Toxic. He is like a tampon. You are not limited when you have him. Anything is possible.

That depends. Do you want your isometric graphics to have a dynamic perspective?

Since isometry is a form of paralel projection which is the very opposite of perspective projection, it is impossible.

 

[imweasel]

It's far from impossible. Just think about multi-layered backgrounds in 2D platformers. It's a workaround created to simulate the effect of 3D.

You are such a stubborn, retarded 2D old fag. My God. Here we go:

A platformer type engine multiple layers is good enough to simulate a realistic perspective (perspective projection) like in Divinity: Original Sin with static layers? LOL, no it isn't you retard.

More like a negative trait that you can't simulate uniform fixed perspectives in 3D. 2D has no problems emulating a phony third dimension graphically.

You can use parallel projection in 3D engine to achieve what you call "uniform fixed perspective". You Dumbfuck.

It has nothing to do with the collision model, as the model is accurate. It has to do with the fact that from a top-down view it's next to impossible to accurately gage minute variations in terrain. When, on top of that, you're having to account for perspective changes in order to make efficient strategical decisions, you end up with soldiers shooting holes in the ground in the most unrealistic fashion. Imagine that, highly trained specialists wasting their ammo on shooting dirt because, despite it looking uniform, there are tiny increments of terrain in the way of their bullets.

So it has nothing to do with the 3D collision model, yet it does? lol you retard.

And if the perspective is a problem, then just use parallel projection in a 3D engine. Problem solved, you retard.

But why would it matter what the camera is looking at, rite? The camera doesn't have a fixed perspective, rite? So, go look at a 2D image and move the camera, see if the perspective changes.

Facepalm.jpg

You seem to finally understand after I have written this about 5 times:
If you move the camera parallel to the 2D plane / axis of the 3D projection then the perspective changes, or it should, because that is realistic. But the perspective does not change if the backgrounds are static (2D). It is impossible. Only the view area can change.

Original what? Is it a 2D isometric game where the perspective changes? Mein Gott, the things they can do with technology these days.

Original Sin is a 3D game with an isometric-like view, it does not have 2D static backgrounds. You fucktard.

Like I said, watch the fucking videos so that you can learn something you fucking retard.

 

[Kingston]

retarded 2D old fag

LOL, no it isn't you retard.

You Dumbfuck.

lol you retard.

Problem solved, you retard.

You fucktard.

Like I said, watch the fucking videos so that you can learn something you fucking retard.

 

[imweasel]

I used to be nice, but the codex has made me evil. Real evil.

 

[Kingston]

I used to be nice, but the codex has made me evil. Real evil.

More like butthurt.

 

[St. Toxic]

Since isometry is a form of paralel projection which is the very opposite of perspective projection, it is impossible.

Holy shit, what a break-through. Now explain that to the weasel.

You are such a stubborn, retarded 2D old fag. My God. Here we go:

A platformer type engine multiple layers is good enough to simulate a realistic perspective (perspective projection) like in Divinity: Original Sin with static layers? LOL, no it isn't you retard.

You wanted dynamic backgrounds, there you go. Working on the same principle you can achieve the effect of an emulated perspective change even in 2D.

You can use parallel projection in 3D engine to achieve what you call "uniform fixed perspective". You Dumbfuck.

Not while maintaining a dynamic perspective.

So it has nothing to do with the 3D model, yet it does? lol you retard.

Who said anything about 3d models?

And if the perspective is a problem, then just use parallel projection in a 3D engine. Problem solved, you retard.

But then why would you use a 3D engine?

You seem to finally understand after I have written this about 5 times:
If you move the camera parallel to the 2D plane / axis of the 3D projection then the perspective changes, or it should, because that is realistic. But the perspective does not change if the backgrounds are static (2D). It is impossible. Only the view area can change.

Amazing. Did you figure this out on your own or what?

Original Sin is a 3D game with an isometric-like view, it does not have 2D static backgrounds. You fucktard.

Like I said, watch the fucking videos so that you can learn something you fucking retard.

I prefer my videos to be of a more cerebral nature.

 

[imweasel]

"Yo bro, perspective projection bro. Can't do that with static 2D backgrounds bro. Just want to point that out bro. Check out the video bro."
And as an answer I get a shitload of retardation from a stubborn dumbfuck.

So yeah, the codex retards do actually give me butthurt. And make me even more evil too.

 

[St. Toxic]

"Yo bro, perspective projection bro. Can't do that with static 2D backgrounds bro. Just want to point that out bro. Check out the video bro."
And as an answer I get a shitload of retardation from a stubborn dumbfuck.

So yeah, the codex retards do actually give me butthurt. And make me even more evil too.

I told you 3D was worthless when viewed from a fixed perspective. Apparently you missed that bit.

 

[villain of the story]

The debate looks like a retarded one so I haven't followed it but here are a few tidbits for the few posts I've read:

There is no perspective in parallel projection. You can't have perspective in parallel projection. That's like saying "I eat lots of meat for my vegan diet". What you mean is projection angle or viewpoint. It's unwise to use the word perspective here to mean the viewpoint due to the context with exclusive projections methods.

You can change the angle of projection in parallel projection to see the 3D scene from different viewpoints (ie. from different angles) and you can move the camera around in parallel projection to pan the scene. Just as you can in perspective projection.

Here, a game scene from various angles and zoom levels in parallel projection:

Spoiler

And from various camera positions (look for the same room of boxes with mouse cursor as a reference point):

Spoiler

Same scene with similar angles and zoom levels in perspective projection:

Spoiler

And from various camera positions:

Spoiler

And here's a comparison between parallel and perspective projections as a reminder for why the former is superior for games with this type of viewpoint:

( Vault Dweller you can still redeem that piece of shit camera of yours in AoD. No more height and collision problems since it won't matter how high the camera would be; the scene will remain the same. Also add step-rotation by angles, preferably 45°.)

And depending on your game development goals, 3D isn't pointless at all to use with fixed camera. Depending on your goals and the scope, 3D can often be cheaper, faster, easier and since we're long past the infancy of 3D, usually it also looks better unless you have good 2D digital artists worth their shit. Discarding 3D unconditionally is quite fucking retarded.

As for Project Eternity, they are using Unity as the engine which is a 3D engine and its 2D interpretation is also based on a 3D API. This is one of the silly reasons people have discarded it as a viable option for 2D games which is quite fucking retarded TBH.

 

[Semper]

Not while maintaining a dynamic perspective.

what is a dynamic perspective? it's either perspective projection or parallel projection. there's nothing in between. in both projection types your camera (or point of view) can be dynamically changed.

 

[DwarvenFood]

I'm glad the master of Cavalier Oblique has showed up. Continue, gentlemen !