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BROs, sell me on Okami

spekkio

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Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
8,295
I mean: I tried it twice (PS2 version on Pcsx2). First thing I noticed was the unskippable cutscenes. Then the fucking irritating sidekick fuck who simply won't shut up. Then the fucking SLOW pace: go there, do that, one thing at a time, wait till something actually happens. Combat looks like total mess too (just mash buttans to win).
People compare this game to Zelda series (at least the 3D ones), but all 3 I played (OoT, MM, WW) were interesting almost from the beginning. And combat controls were responsible. And Navi wasn't as irritating as DAT fucking bug. Etc, etc.
So, is this game really worth it (gameplay, level design, combat, memorable encounters, exploaration) or is it just pwetty graphix?

:rpgcodex:
 

Snorkack

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Yo, just drop it. The hype mostly comes from the "Oh god, look at how video games are actual ART"-fraction that also think Max Payne is the pinnacle of shooters or Dear Esther is a good game.
 

WhiteGuts

Arcane
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May 3, 2013
Messages
2,382
Of course it's worth it. Everything is GREAT about that game. It blows Zelda right out of the fucking water as far as I'm concerned.
 

spekkio

Arcane
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
8,295
^
HEY! LISTEN!
At least I didn't have to skip long walls of text with this bitch...
 

SerratedBiz

Arcane
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
4,143
That fucking hey listen haunts me to this day. Meanwhile, Okami's non-speech gibberish is endearing and heartwarming.

:fanboyism:
 

Absalom

Guest
HEY LISTEN wasn't nearly as bad as that fucking owl
fbb7026831d0d6b4e2068f068068a6faffa2da14f8a4f66811a970daa94a8610_1.jpg
 
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Combat looks like total mess too (just mash buttans to win).

Okami derives a lot of it's combat mechanics from DMC1, which is unsurprising given that the development of both games were helmed by Hideki Kamiya.

There's one weapon focused more on cancelable techniques (Reflectors) versus another weapon type (Glaives) revolving around devastating charged moves, comparable to Alastor and Ifrit in DMC1. Okami deviates a bit from the DMC1 formula in that there's a third weapon type, Rosaries, that are all about ranged shots and Area of Effect sweeps. And instead of guns, a la DMC, Okami allows the player to equip another weapon to serve as a secondary, with varying effects depending on the weapon type (e.g. a Reflector equipped as a secondary allows for a timed block and counter move and Rosararies, depending on their make, offer rapid fire bead action or a shotgun-like burst all at once). It's a decent amount of variety, certainly more than your average 3D Zelda title, in which your core combat capabilities tend to be slash, jump-slash, and spin slash (Majora's Mask being the standout exception, what with the different forms; go go Goron Roll!).

And to further the Zelda comparisons, the primary puzzle solving pickups (treasures in Zelda games, brush powers in Okami) also play a secondary role in combat, with certain brush powers being extremely effective against certain foes; using a gust of wind against an enemy engulfed in flames will often blow them out, things can be cut in half with the brush slash, etc. Like Zelda games, it relies on varied and interesting enemy design to accomplish this. Unlike Zelda, the enemies are a little less linear, there's a bit more leeway in how to deal with them; skilled players might be able to slay a lot of demons in entirely different ways tthan they were intended, exploiting frame properties of moves rather than hitting the scripted weakness of the foe.

It's clear Okami combat was designed for people who liked action games, even if the difficulty was certainly not tuned for that crowd's typical preferences. There's a decent amount of depth, and the systems are fun to play around with. Even some content tries to push the limits a bit, namely some optional Demon Gate Challenges, though the horrible overabundance of recovery items makes the entire game a joke if one chooses to lean upon them at all. Like I said, difficulty isn't tuned for the action game crowd, especially not when in a Zelda-like you can carry 99 of every potion in addition to 5+ fairies. My suggestion, ignore items altogether and reset/reload if you would die rather than abuse the pouch of godhood or whatever it was.

People compare this game to Zelda series (at least the 3D ones), but all 3 I played (OoT, MM, WW) were interesting almost from the beginning.

It has an extremely slow start, especially the 10 minute intro cutscene that drags on forever due to the unskippable Banjo-Kazooie impression done at quarter speed. Even once free of that mess, the "tutorial" can be extremely boring, and the game only beings to pick up about 2-4 hours in, once the player has a couple weapons, brush powers, and is facing more than bog-standard foes.

After that, it picks up the pace a lot and plays far swifter than 3D Zelda games, if only because Amaterasu is way faster than (non-Goron) Link. Not to mention, the way brush powers are handled eliminates a lot of the annoying menu-swapping that comes with practically every Zelda game (2d or 3d, menuing is a huge deal, even before crazy shit like pause-buffering just-frame techniques). But be aware, the ending is terrible (besides the final boss track).

It's a fun game in the middle, though, and if you enjoyed Wind Waker, you should certainly be able to have fun with most of Okami.
 
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
2,234
Play it faggit just play it more. Its best zelda like game, fuck its better than any zelda. The fucking cutscenes and that awful mumbling are shit and i wanted to kill that fuckng bug everytime he opened his whore mouth but game gets better.

I bought hd version for ps3 and next to dd:dark arisen its my favourite game in my collection.
 

Luckra

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Jan 13, 2015
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Montréal
The game has more variety and content than your average Zelda game, unfortunately a significant part of that is quite repetitive (you encounter some bosses up to 4 or 5 times, some MMO style quests, feeding the animals, ...).
The combat has way more depth than Zelda but the non existent difficulty of the game means you will never delve into that and just button mash 99% of the fights (only the boss fights felt good to me).
The game is slow and even contemplative in some parts leaning more towards a Zelda Wind Waker style like Edward said.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I mean: I tried it twice (PS2 version on Pcsx2). First thing I noticed was the unskippable cutscenes. Then the fucking irritating sidekick fuck who simply won't shut up. Then the fucking SLOW pace: go there, do that, one thing at a time, wait till something actually happens. Combat looks like total mess too (just mash buttans to win).
People compare this game to Zelda series (at least the 3D ones), but all 3 I played (OoT, MM, WW) were interesting almost from the beginning. And combat controls were responsible. And Navi wasn't as irritating as DAT fucking bug. Etc, etc.
So, is this game really worth it (gameplay, level design, combat, memorable encounters, exploaration) or is it just pwetty graphix?

:rpgcodex:
I liked the game, but reading your post, I'd recommend dropping the game. Not much will change your opinion of the game in the latter parts.

Game, game, game, don't know how I managed to write game so many times in such a short description. Game.
 

Tehdagah

Arcane
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
9,344
I lost 40 hours of my life with this game. Stopped playing it when I reached Chapter 3. That's when I noticed the game would be the same shit for another 20 hours.

The combat is extremely brainless. You have a massive amount of health and enemies aren't threatening; you can kill them just mashing the attack button and using the brush gimmick to do repetitive tasks (which pauses the combat, making it even easier) This kills the exploration, because there's no reason to search for money/items when the combat is designed for 7 years old.

Of course it's worth it. Everything is GREAT about that game. It blows Zelda right out of the fucking water as far as I'm concerned.
If you want to know how bad Okami is, just follow this logic: pick the easiest Zelda game (which probably is Skyward Sword), makes it three times easier and two times longer. The result is Okami.

(...) It's clear Okami combat was designed for people who liked action games, even if the difficulty was certainly not tuned for that crowd's typical preferences. There's a decent amount of depth, and the systems are fun to play around with. Even some content tries to push the limits a bit, namely some optional Demon Gate Challenges, though the horrible overabundance of recovery items makes the entire game a joke if one chooses to lean upon them at all. Like I said, difficulty isn't tuned for the action game crowd, especially not when in a Zelda-like you can carry 99 of every potion in addition to 5+ fairies. My suggestion, ignore items altogether and reset/reload if you would die rather than abuse the pouch of godhood or whatever it was. (...)
You meant to say "designed for people who like fighting games". Shinobi (PS2) is great and has none of that.

Also, dying in this game is impossible. Hell, I never used a healing item in my 40 hours playthrough, because the game is that easy.
 
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Keldryn

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Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
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Location
Vancouver, Canada
Okami is one of my favorite games of its generation.

I love Zelda-style action/adventure games anyway, but one of my favorite things about Okami was seeing the world transform in response to my actions. You get that initial major change when life returns to a section of the world, but after that there are still patches of darkness and dead trees to restore. I found this very rewarding. And I loved exploring the newly restored areas and finding all of the optional bits to restore.

And it doesn't hurt that it's a gorgeous game to look at (I would love to play the HD re-release, but I don't have a PS3). I really enjoy the simple act of exploration in well-crafted worlds, and Okami's unique visuals add to that enjoyment. I think that Okami holds up well against the 3D Zelda titles, although it lacks Nintendo's typical level of polish.

It's not a very challenging game, although there were 3 or 4 parts that gave me some trouble. I didn't think that it was quite as easy as The Wind Waker. I would also agree that the pacing at the beginning of the game is absolutely terrible and probably worse than that of the beginning of Twilight Princess.

You do get bonuses (items, money, "praise") for performing well in any given battle: not taking damage, finishing quickly, taking out enemies with special moves that they are weak to, etc. I found that I really struggled with getting an "A" rating against certain enemies; I was rarely (if ever) in danger of dying, but taking them out efficiently was still a challenge for me. I did get really good at getting bonus demon fangs on the PS2 version's loading screens.

Now I'm feeling inspired to play it again. It's been several years since I played it, and I never actually finished the game; I clocked about 60 hours into the PS2 version before real life dragged me away from it. I started over again with the Wii version when it came out, but only got about 15 hours or so into it, as I was working crazy Rockstar hours at the time. Oddly enough, the brush controls on the Wii version are probably worse than on the PS2 (and dodging by shaking the nunchuk is practically unusable).

I wish that PS3s were cheaper -- I would get one simply for the HD remasters of Okami, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, the Sly Cooper games, Prince of Persia Sands of Time, and the Ratchet & Clank games. $250 (CAD) for a nine year old gaming console is far too much, even if it does come bundled with 1-3 games.
 

Machocruz

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Jul 7, 2011
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Hyperborea
Thought it was charming, full of personality and heart (as far as vidyas go). The narrative journey was interesting enough that I went along with any short comings, one of maybe 3 or 4 games I can say that about that aren't P&C adventures. They did a really good job at conveying effects of matter and weather with the stylized graphics. Very pleasant world with some unique ideas. I said in another thread about another game that many Japanese developers (and many European ones) show a respect for and familiarity with nature and pastoral life that informs their games, and definitely in this one. By contrast, American devs make games as though 98% of their lives are spent indoors, their only reference for such things being other media.

Basically, the game is about feels, setting, aesthetic pleasure. The combat is much like Edward R. Murrow describes. I found the core mechanics satisfying, moreso than any 3D Zelda game. Some beautiful music. My main problems were that characters are way too verbose and too many battles with trash enemies. And there was an optional, memory based puzzle in there that I had to record my screen to finish; besides memorizing a sequential placement of a fair number of dots, the game is real finicky about you placing the dots in the precise spot. Only those with very good memory or OCD completionists like me need apply.

Game reminded me of watching Peanuts films as a kid. Strange comparison, but it's an interactive cartoon with an innocent nature about it, aside from some boobs.
 

Keldryn

Arcane
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
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Location
Vancouver, Canada
I said in another thread about another game that many Japanese developers (and many European ones) show a respect for and familiarity with nature and pastoral life that informs their games, and definitely in this one. By contrast, American devs make games as though 98% of their lives are spent indoors, their only reference for such things being other media.

I noticed this during the couple of years that I worked in the industry. Modern game development in North America seems to be almost entirely informed by movies, comic books, and other video games. I think it is fair to say that American game devs do spend about 98% of their lives indoors, given the typical working hours and the increasing frequency and duration of crunch time over the development cycle on any particular game. One of my co-workers once asked me if I had read a particular novel, because I "seemed like the only other guy here who might actually read a book once in a while."

I'm sure that some of this is a cultural difference, but I also think that it is a generational difference. Games are primarily being made by people who grew up playing a lot of video/computer games, and they often seem to lack the more well-rounded and diverse interests that many of the pioneers of game design drew upon. Shigeru Miyamoto has talked about Zelda being inspired by exploring forests and caves when he was a young boy, or how his love of gardening inspired Pikmin. Richard Garriott played a lot of D&D, but he was also involved in the SCA and has always pursued real-world "adventure" activities. Will Wright studied architecture, economics, military history, and mechanical engineering.

Modern game design has gotten incredibly self-referential.

Basically, the game is about feels, setting, aesthetic pleasure.

Agreed. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that most of the game is not very challenging.

My main problems were that characters are way too verbose and too many battles with trash enemies. And there was an optional, memory based puzzle in there that I had to record my screen to finish; besides memorizing a sequential placement of a fair number of dots, the game is real finicky about you placing the dots in the precise spot.

I hated those particular puzzles. However, I now have many more options for taking a quick snapshot of the screen instead of trying to memorize exactly where all of the dots were. And yes, some characters were way too verbose and there was no way to speed it up. I read pretty quickly, and it drives me nuts when the on-screen text progresses at a snail's pace.
 

Jasede

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Don't feel bad, I don't like it either, despite my love for the studio behind it.
 
Unwanted

CyberP

Unwanted
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,711
I said in another thread about another game that many Japanese developers (and many European ones) show a respect for and familiarity with nature and pastoral life that informs their games, and definitely in this one. By contrast, American devs make games as though 98% of their lives are spent indoors, their only reference for such things being other media.

I noticed this during the couple of years that I worked in the industry. Modern game development in North America seems to be almost entirely informed by movies, comic books, and other video games. I think it is fair to say that American game devs do spend about 98% of their lives indoors, given the typical working hours and the increasing frequency and duration of crunch time over the development cycle on any particular game. One of my co-workers once asked me if I had read a particular novel, because I "seemed like the only other guy here who might actually read a book once in a while."

I'm sure that some of this is a cultural difference, but I also think that it is a generational difference. Games are primarily being made by people who grew up playing a lot of video/computer games, and they often seem to lack the more well-rounded and diverse interests that many of the pioneers of game design drew upon. Shigeru Miyamoto has talked about Zelda being inspired by exploring forests and caves when he was a young boy, or how his love of gardening inspired Pikmin. Richard Garriott played a lot of D&D, but he was also involved in the SCA and has always pursued real-world "adventure" activities. Will Wright studied architecture, economics, military history, and mechanical engineering.

Modern game design has gotten incredibly self-referential.
.

Not sure if serious. The majority of modern games are uninspired garbage because the publishers figured out how to play the market. If developers of today played classics of the past they should know they have standards to live up to, honor and preferably surpass. Unfortunately, the old ways are dismissed in favor of a B-movie-like experience, or whatever other garbage is trending.
Not to mention the quoted ridiculous generalization of 98% of 'Merican devs. What about Jap devs too, because I'm seeing a lot of garbage production and trend-following going on on that side of the industry too.
 

Machocruz

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Hyperborea
. What about Jap devs too, because I'm seeing a lot of garbage production and trend-following going on on that side of the industry too.
Which has nothing to do with the specific characteristic I've observed. Regardless of the quality of mechanics, controls, or the like, I've seen more informed, evocative depictions of nature and artifacts of everday life in Asian and European fantasy games than I do in American games where flora and fauna exist merely as set dressing. It's a matter of attention to detail, reverence, and direct experience. It's probably why cooking and animal interaction are often important components in their games. Even if you look at production approaches, there is a legacy of field research that flows from early American animation (Disney features) to the Japanese animation it influenced, which in turn influenced game development. Meanwhile on my side of the pond, photographic and video reference are the order of the day; efficiency rules above all other considerations. Too many shut-in pop culture geeks are producing games. To their credit, NA developers may be the best technicians nowadays. It's like the same "left brain" dominance that leaves them unable to recreate the "soul" of a thing leads them to excel in the technical aspects. They are great at reproducing cinematic and photographic lighting, as opposed to naturalistic lighting as seen by the eye; again, facsimile of other media.

Japanese culture is known for its reverence for nature. Not sure about various Europe countries and their relationship or view of the natural world is, but their output suggests to me they have similar traits. I do extensive volunteer work in the forest preserves and national parks, and U.S. game developers are as out of touch with the nuances of outdoors and rural life as an Inuit is ignorant of what a tropical rainforest feels like. Even their engines produce settings that look plastic and sterile compared to something like CryEngine. All these factors are not coincidental or incidental, imo.
 

WhiteGuts

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May 3, 2013
Messages
2,382
Okami is like the PST of that particular type of games. Combat does its job but the main interest lies elsewhere.

Like for instance, exploring the blooming countryside with this music playing :



It's pure magic. So very few games manage to do that correctly.
 
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Dire Roach

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I played it recently on the PS2. I had high hopes for it since I was told it was similar to 3D Zeldas, but despite trying to force myself to finish it, I gave up halfway through. It has an interesting art style, good music, and the brush mechanic is a great idea (in theory). Too bad the pacing is terrible, combat is too fast and over-simplified, and the story and dialogue are super retarded.

Pacing: I herd you liek cutscenes. You walked into a new area? Have a cutscene. You drew a circle on a random tree? Cutscene. Feed a bunny? Cutscene. The really quick day/night cycle is changing? Cutscenecutscenecutscenecutscenecutscenecutscenecutscenecutscenecutscene

Combat: Uh oh, watch out! A scary boss fight is coming. Are you ready for some action? Here it comes! RAAAWWW- *pause for brush techinque, draw some lines on the screen* "YOU HIT MY WEAK SPOT NOW MY SOFT FLESHY UNDERBELLY IS EXPOSED!" *mash attack button until boss recovers* "OH BOY NOW I'M MAD HERE I CO-" *pause for brush technique, draw more lines* "OH NO I CANT BELIEVE YOU LEFT ME EXPOSED AGAIN!" *mash attack button until boss is dead* "I UNDERESTIMATED YOUR GODLY POWER!" *dies*

Story/dialogue: "You mean to tell me that the wolf who understood every word I spoke to it and carries divine weapons on its back is actually THE wolf god from legend? Bullshit. I'm going to attack it/make it do trivial shit for me just to be on the safe side."
 
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If you want to know how bad Okami is, just follow this logic: pick the easiest Zelda game (which probably is Skyward Sword), makes it three times easier and two times longer. The result is Okami.

I don't know if I'd agree with that, only because 3d Zelda games are notoriously easy, especially when it comes to combat. They're all pretty much geared for seven-year-olds. In fact, I'm pretty certain that many Codexers probably grew up playing something like Ocarina of Time before they were even a decade old. Challenge isn't something you're likely to get out of this little slice of the world of games; only the first Darksiders really tried to fill the niche of "hard Zelda-like" (and mostly succeeded). I guess Nintendo hates money and, well, Kamiya does have this odd fascination with add Easy Automatic Mode to practically every game he creates...

Okami isn't hard, but I don't think that will turn off somebody who was able to enjoy Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and especially Wind Waker. You have to try to die in most of the games as well.

You meant to say "designed for people who like fighting games". Shinobi (PS2) is great and has none of that.

Eh, it's a semantics thing, I guess.

Obviously, yeah, an "action game" doesn't need to follow the DMC/GoW/NG mold (lots of emphasis on exploration of relatively deep combat mechanics as a core gamplay drive) to be good...Shinobi's proof of that. But unfortunately, it's kind of an outlier...there aren't really many games that went in that direction, especially after Ninja Gaiden Black, God of War (2) and Devil May Cry 3 basically (re)defined the (sub)genre. When you talk about third-person action games, that's what people think, with older, more unique titles laying forgotten or being unfairly maligned for doing things a little differently than contemporary games do.
 

Amn Nom

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I tried to like this game, I really did, but just didn't feel it. The HD version on PS3 is fucking gorgeous. With that said, it has a lot of issues. Someone else put it perfectly 'Okami should really be a trilogy.' Its a 40-60 hour game of doing the same thing over and over again in three distinct arcs. This would be good if the rest of the game carried it. But unfortunately the combat is a joke and boils down to rolling your face on the controller. The brush abilities felt like gimmicks and I would have honestly preferred the game without them. The dialogue likes to drag on, which isn't so bad since some of it is pretty funny. Except Navi, I mean Issun. Dungeons tended to drag on a little more then they should have, but they were pretty fun overall.

The game is 3D Zelda without a doubt, just in a different direction. Personally, I much prefer Darksiders 1 as the 'best Zelda clone'.
 

Keldryn

Arcane
Joined
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Location
Vancouver, Canada
It's definitely not a game for everyone. It had that "magical" experience for me, so I was able to overlook most of the game's flaws.

I have Okamiden for the DS, but I haven't played much of it yet. The controls are kind of awkward, as you use the Dpad and face buttons to play, but you have two pull out the stylus every time you use a brush technique.
 

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