Baldur's Gate Beamdog's Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 Enhanced Editions

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

The sprites and spell effects weren't changed in the EEs. What you're refering to only changes BG1 and that wasn't Beamdog updating the graphics, it was a result of using the ToB engine for the game.

The engine had nothing to do with using bg2 spell effects and sprites in bg1. Sprites like the full plate warriors and certain helmets, spell effects, again, like fireball. Those assets exist independently of the engine and iirc there used to be mods that restored some BG appearance to BG2 or Tutu.

Beamdog certainly changed things, they just changed them to another game's existing assets.

I wasn't suggesting that they created new assets themselves or altered the assets, so my apologies if that was unclear.

Frankly, I don't think they have the skill for that.

 

[Grunker]

Ehm, yes, the sprites and spell effects are distinctly part of the engine, which is why those are changed in BGT as well - and incidentally part of the reason 1PP exists. Unless you're talking about the paper dolls? In which case I have no idea why Bioware changed them in BG2, because original BG1 paper dolls are massive superior to anything that came after.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Ehm, yes, the sprites and spell effects are distinctly part of the engine, which is why those are changed in BGT as well - and incidentally part of the reason 1PP exists.

Like I said, they can be changed back to the BG1 effects. I recall that I did it for the fireball effect in one game long ago, but I can't find the mod now. Maybe it was 1pp. Not sure.

Look maybe I'm wrong, but as long as Beamturd were fiddling with the engine, the least they could have done is restored BG1's look or just left it on its original engine and improved that.

edit: yay! SHS is back up.

 

[Tacgnol]

In which case I have no idea why Bioware changed them in BG2, because original BG1 paper dolls are massive superior to anything that came after.

Yeah, same with many things.

BG1 had better icons for things like armour and (some, many were reused) weapons as well.

 

[razvedchiki]

guise is 2.5 version compatible with scs?

 

[thesheeep]

So, I'm doing a solo Fighter/Druid* playthrough of the series and am now near the end of Siege Of Dragonspear**...

* Fucking hell, what was I smoking? Fighters are nice, sure. But druids? Abysmally useless lvl 1-3 spells, extremely limited selection of useful higher level spells, nothing that can open locks (some chests especially in SoD you cannot force open no matter your STR), cannot read any scrolls, cannot make themselves invulnerable at the start of combat (not all encounters can be prepared against beforehand), cannot use most wands (a few work, for whatever reason)...
By now, I'm beginning to think a Bard would have been better - at least that one could read scrolls. A solo fighter would at least have more proficiency points available (F/D can only go to 2 in weapons, 3 in styles).
A few encounters I simply had to cheat around as there was no way in hell my char could've pulled those off - like some "random" encounters in SoD which place you against half an army with so many incoming attacks that some will disturb those vital initial spells.
Mostly it works and is definitely one hell of a challenge, though.
Of course, I removed the xp cap, otherwise I'm damn sure it wouldn't be doable without endless reloads and retries, especially considering SoD afaik doesn't increase the XP cap of BG1.


** I am at the same time disgusted and positively surprised.
You remember that "discussion" about SJW lines laid into Minsc's mouth or so? I wish that agenda pushing was the only problem in the game. Some of these dialogues are simply bottom-of-the-barrel bad.
Modern speak, memes and trope-referencing, "lulzy" stuff, just plain bad in-your-face writing, ...
And the worst part? I'm almost entirely sure it was all done by the same person, because some of the writing is actually well done. And you can definitely see the difference in quality between different NPCs and sections. Weird.
Also the most annoying character in gaming history. You thought the bard in NWN 2 OC was bad? Meet Neera.
Another problem is in all the other NPCs you can add to your party - all of them (except those that were always in BG2) just disappear in BG2, which makes using them in a playthrough rather shitty IMO. And they don't have any plans of adding them to BG2.

On the plus side, the maps actually look nice, some of these encounters are surprisingly challenging and the exploration is fun - though it may just be the joy of finally seeing something new in a BGT playthrough.
There are also interesting characters and a story arc that doesn't make any less sense than what is in BG1 or 2.
So if you can ignore some of that atrocious writing - and you'd have to be damn good at ignoring - I'd actually recommend the thing. But as it is, it is kinda like a box of doughnuts, some of which are filled with mustard and you won't know which ones before you take a bite. Actually, maybe play the game in some other language, that might make it better.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Of course, I removed the xp cap, otherwise I'm damn sure it wouldn't be doable without endless reloads and retries, especially considering SoD afaik doesn't increase the XP cap of BG1.

It increases the XP cap. I've forgotten what to (I think it was 750,000) but enough to get most single classes to like level 11, IIRC.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Bards >> Druids IMHO. There is a bigger XP cap for SoD, but it only equates to 1 or 2 levels for most classes iirc. Amber Scott is the SoD self-insert, and I’m fairly certain she’s no longer at Beamdog. Biggest complaint for SoD for me was the lack of backtracking, and as you said, the writing. Encounters and art were surprisingly good.

 

[Chippy]

So, I'm doing a solo Fighter/Druid* playthrough of the series and am now near the end of Siege Of Dragonspear**...

* Fucking hell, what was I smoking? Fighters are nice, sure. But druids? Abysmally useless lvl 1-3 spells, extremely limited selection of useful higher level spells, nothing that can open locks (some chests especially in SoD you cannot force open no matter your STR), cannot read any scrolls, cannot make themselves invulnerable at the start of combat (not all encounters can be prepared against beforehand), cannot use most wands (a few work, for whatever reason)...
By now, I'm beginning to think a Bard would have been better - at least that one could read scrolls. A solo fighter would at least have more proficiency points available (F/D can only go to 2 in weapons, 3 in styles).
A few encounters I simply had to cheat around as there was no way in hell my char could've pulled those off - like some "random" encounters in SoD which place you against half an army with so many incoming attacks that some will disturb those vital initial spells.
Mostly it works and is definitely one hell of a challenge, though.
Of course, I removed the xp cap, otherwise I'm damn sure it wouldn't be doable without endless reloads and retries, especially considering SoD afaik doesn't increase the XP cap of BG1.


** I am at the same time disgusted and positively surprised.
You remember that "discussion" about SJW lines laid into Minsc's mouth or so? I wish that agenda pushing was the only problem in the game. Some of these dialogues are simply bottom-of-the-barrel bad.
Modern speak, memes and trope-referencing, "lulzy" stuff, just plain bad in-your-face writing, ...
And the worst part? I'm almost entirely sure it was all done by the same person, because some of the writing is actually well done. And you can definitely see the difference in quality between different NPCs and sections. Weird.
Also the most annoying character in gaming history. You thought the bard in NWN 2 OC was bad? Meet Neera.
Another problem is in all the other NPCs you can add to your party - all of them (except those that were always in BG2) just disappear in BG2, which makes using them in a playthrough rather shitty IMO. And they don't have any plans of adding them to BG2.

On the plus side, the maps actually look nice, some of these encounters are surprisingly challenging and the exploration is fun - though it may just be the joy of finally seeing something new in a BGT playthrough.
There are also interesting characters and a story arc that doesn't make any less sense than what is in BG1 or 2.
So if you can ignore some of that atrocious writing - and you'd have to be damn good at ignoring - I'd actually recommend the thing. But as it is, it is kinda like a box of doughnuts, some of which are filled with mustard and you won't know which ones before you take a bite. Actually, maybe play the game in some other language, that might make it better.

The whole Beamdog ecperience was unique. I mean that it was so bad and forgetable that you actually can't remember how bad it was (I just remembered they also missed the movie in the bandit camp). And it's so bad that you cant rely on other people to describe how bad it is. The Codex should probably just get a few members to write a summary of it all and copy and paste every time someone comes out to defend it - then reimburse the poor Codexians for the brain damage.

The difference in writing quality is that (I wont name her because it can cause mass rage/apoplexy) the lead female writer on SOD was shit, and the guy was 'good' - he was the writer of Cowboys and Aliens. Which is to say that by today's standards - the coherent stuff was his because English was his first language and not... I'd say retard but its both low hanging fruit, and inacurate... well, whatever that creature was that represented the lead writer.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Another problem is in all the other NPCs you can add to your party - all of them (except those that were always in BG2) just disappear in BG2, which makes using them in a playthrough rather shitty IMO. And they don't have any plans of adding them to BG2.

The one improvement to BG2 that I expected/hoped to see would be Jaheria not insisting on reminding me about knowing me. Just write it a bit more neutral so that there's room for ambiguity.

But instead they chose to justify that railroading by making a big dumb expansion. smh

 

[attackfighter]

The EEs are fine for a first playthrough, but only for frauds who want to pretend they've played the games. If you've only played the EEs, you've never played BG1 and BG2.

I'd amend this to say you've never played BG1 at least. BG1 had its own unique art design and gameplay that Beamdog completely threw out the window. I personally like playing with BGT/EET, but I know it isn't the real BG1.

edit: Oh, and I completely forgot to mention all the terrible new cartoony cutscenes they made to replace the in game's original CGI cutscenes.

Spoiler

The cutscene at the end (comparison timestamped 10:11) was especially offensive in that it didn't fly up and show all the other Bhaalspawn before turning downward. It looks like they were going to, but then just fades to the camera panning down awkwardly. Sad.

So yeah, I can't recommend it for a first run at all. You're just not really playing BG.

There's no real point to the cutscene without the reveal of the other Bhaalspawn. By showing their overwhelming numerical strength the cutscene adumbrates future conflict, heightening the drama and setting up for the sequel. The paltry glimpse you get of the two statues next to Sarevok not only fails to convey the scope of their numbers, the lack of dramatic camerawork fails to even emphasize their context. They could be statues of random dudes.

I remember years ago conveying my thoughts on a forum other than this about the decline of cinematic storytelling in the Heroes of Might and Magic series, contrasting the opening of the third installment, in which the princess of Erathia walks about a desolated city of sorcerers and experiences visions of the battle that had once raged there, with some cutscene someone posted of a newer installment, in which some guy with a greatsword sperges out and obliterates five hundred skeleton warriors by twirling around his greatsword, nonstop for several minutes, like a baton. The first cutscene had information to convey. The second, only images to bombard the viewer with. Storytelling vs. pornography.

 

[octavius]

I remember years ago conveying my thoughts on a forum other than this about the decline of cinematic storytelling in the Heroes of Might and Magic series, contrasting the opening of the third installment, in which the princess of Erathia walks about a desolated city of sorcerers and experiences visions of the battle that had once raged there, with some cutscene someone posted of a newer installment, in which some guy with a greatsword sperges out and obliterates five hundred skeleton warriors by twirling around his greatsword, nonstop for several minutes, like a baton. The first cutscene had information to convey. The second, only images to bombard the viewer with. Storytelling vs. pornography.

The first one had Queen Catherine parading around in her field panties.

 

[Cael]

* Fucking hell, what was I smoking? Fighters are nice, sure. But druids? Abysmally useless lvl 1-3 spells, extremely limited selection of useful higher level spells, nothing that can open locks (some chests especially in SoD you cannot force open no matter your STR), cannot read any scrolls, cannot make themselves invulnerable at the start of combat (not all encounters can be prepared against beforehand), cannot use most wands (a few work, for whatever reason)...

Druid have two advantages over Clerics in BG: the abiity to use Drzzt's scimitars, and faster leveling :D

Both of these disappears in BG2 where the level cap is much higher and you get psycho blunt weapons (Crom Fyer, I am looking at YOU!)

 

[Tigranes]

You just wonder what possessed them to redo the cutscenes. First, cutscenes are typically so expensive, tricky to do, and often end up half of what you intended, even at the best of times. Second, the original cutscenes weren't particularly lacking in any way, so you weren't giving yourself an easy task of improving it. Third, it seems like they didn't have any ideas for improving it, so the end result isn't even substantially different, except for seemingly random changes like removing the statues that detract from the theme?

I'd at least understand if they wanted to do a total technical upgrade with higher-definition models and whatnot, or extend the cutscenes, add narration, whatever - even if the results are catastrophic, at least there was a clear intention.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I think they just wanted it to look polished and modern.

I think their goal was to get a lot of new gamers on tablets etc and they were kind of ashamed of the dated looking cutscenes.

 

[thesheeep]

You just wonder what possessed them to redo the cutscenes. First, cutscenes are typically so expensive, tricky to do, and often end up half of what you intended, even at the best of times. Second, the original cutscenes weren't particularly lacking in any way, so you weren't giving yourself an easy task of improving it. Third, it seems like they didn't have any ideas for improving it, so the end result isn't even substantially different, except for seemingly random changes like removing the statues that detract from the theme?

I'd at least understand if they wanted to do a total technical upgrade with higher-definition models and whatnot, or extend the cutscenes, add narration, whatever - even if the results are catastrophic, at least there was a clear intention.

I think the first and foremost reason was that the cutscenes needed to be in higher resolution, as the originals were simply too small.
And most likely, the raw 3D scenes used to render those videos were lost - at least that would be my assumption.
Otherwise, it would indeed be weird as hell why they didn't just re-render the cutscenes in a higher resolution.

* Fucking hell, what was I smoking? Fighters are nice, sure. But druids? Abysmally useless lvl 1-3 spells, extremely limited selection of useful higher level spells, nothing that can open locks (some chests especially in SoD you cannot force open no matter your STR), cannot read any scrolls, cannot make themselves invulnerable at the start of combat (not all encounters can be prepared against beforehand), cannot use most wands (a few work, for whatever reason)...

Druid have two advantages over Clerics in BG: the abiity to use Drzzt's scimitars, and faster leveling :D

Faster leveling is only up to a certain level, after that there is an extreme curve and it becomes slower than fighters. Maybe it catches up again later on, not sure. I'm 11/13 now and I doubt the rest of the expansion will give me 1 million XP. I'm in for a slower ride now.
And scimitars... yeah.
But to gimp myself additionally, I went for dual wield clubs & daggers, though I might just switch in BG2 to something else to at least get one of the better weapons in the game

 

[Grunker]

Ehm, yes, the sprites and spell effects are distinctly part of the engine, which is why those are changed in BGT as well - and incidentally part of the reason 1PP exists.

Like I said, they can be changed back to the BG1 effects

That's because a lot of 1PP has been implemented into the EEs. Erephine was, like a couple of other modders, hired for a very short period of time, to make it happen. That's also why there are proper flaming swords in the EEs and so on.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I think the first and foremost reason was that the cutscenes needed to be in higher resolution, as the originals were simply too small.
And most likely, the raw 3D scenes used to render those videos were lost - at least that would be my assumption.
Otherwise, it would indeed be weird as hell why they didn't just re-render the cutscenes in a higher resolution.

That's true. I think they said they didn't even have access to the original developer tools, let alone all the original assets. They used a lot of modder tools.

The EE's are basically paid mods.

 

[Jezal_k23]

They are dealing with oldschool games that they want to sell to a modern audience, on other platforms like mobile devices. "What the fuck do we do?", they asked themselves, and found no easy answer, for Baldur's Gate is not an attractive game for casual gamers. "I simply cannot abide Beamdog not making cool and popular games even though our whole studio is held together by oldschool games", Trent desperately shrieked. All seemed lost: there was simply no way for Baldur's Gate to be a hip, trendy game like Fortnite. Several tense minutes passed. "What do we do?", the team asked Trent. "Perhaps I have an idea", Trent expressed excitedly. "What do the kids like today? I'll tell you what: cutscenes. There's entire games that are based around watching epic cutscenes with barely any gameplay in between. We need to tap into that. We must redo all of the Baldur's Gate cutscenes!"

And this is the story of how Beamdog redid all the cutscenes.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

And this is the story of how Beamdog redid all the cutscenes.

After playing through the EE's, it's almost actually believable.

 

[Cael]

Druid have two advantages over Clerics in BG: the abiity to use Drzzt's scimitars, and faster leveling :D

Faster leveling is only up to a certain level, after that there is an extreme curve and it becomes slower than fighters. Maybe it catches up again later on, not sure. I'm 13/13 now and I doubt the rest of the expansion will give me 1 million XP. I'm in for a slower ride now.
And scimitars... yeah.
But to gimp myself additionally, I went for dual wield clubs & daggers

The faster levellng only goes up to level 10 or 12, after that, at level 15 or so, the druid's XP/level goes crazy and you fall way, WAY behind. That is why it is an advantage only in BG and not BG2.

As for not using scimitars as a druid... Well, your avatar was well chosen :D

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

That's because a lot of 1PP has been implemented into the EEs. Erephine was, like a couple of other modders, hired for a very short period of time, to make it happen. That's also why there are proper flaming swords in the EEs and so on.

Well then kudos to them for trying then. IMO, they still shouldn't have upgraded the engine though. Different ruleset, different sprites and effects. It's not an enhanced BG1. It's just a port like Tutu, which already existed. Logistically there may have been reasons, but I still don't approve of it.

 

[Grunker]

I'm not taking a stand either way, I was just responding to the ridicoulous claim that the EEs "improved the graphics"

 

[Sykar]

I get not wanting to give Beamdog money, but raving that the EEs are a garbage inferior version is really tryhard.

Hardly anyone makes that claim. What most critics like me have time and again criticized is:

1.) Making it seem like the Infinity games were their own product, cutting out the Black Isle logo and not mentioning them until the fucking credits, which hardly anyone cares about. Black Isle is also not mentioned on the Steam or GoG page iirc and they are listed as the creators of the game which I find appalling that these games are credited to such hacks.
2.) Making the original cheaper versions unavailable forcing everyone who wants to buy them now to play their garbage.
3.) Wanting twice as much money for shoddily modded version with scantly any real improvments over decade old mods which are for free and easy to install if you have an ounce of English reading comprehension essentially turning those games into cheap cash grabs.
4.) Introduced at least as many bugs as they fixed, even though the unofficial patches basically repaired everything worthwhile with barely anything left to do which would be noticeable on a normal playthrough.
5.) Barely any real improvements over available mods which were for free made by compatent people.
6.) New kits/classes feel out of place and had no place in BG 1 diminishing the original feel.
7.) Hamfisted SJW/Feminist/Transgender(unsure) garbage writing in their own crap like NPCs and some mediocre extra content hardly anyone cares about except maybe Dragonspear.

I could probably find some more stuff but this is a gist of it.