Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Europa Universalis IV

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,094
I have a problem. Im really really pissed right now. v 1.28.3 I have only all DLCs no mods

Around 1700 all the time game crashes when I try to save and ALL I repeat ALL saves (I have multiple) wont load after that. Its just desktop. Range of game saves goes from 1590ish to 1650ish

I tried clean install, windowed mode or without DLCs
This morning it load a save without all DLCs now it wont do it in any way. It starts to load like first part and when it has to change map to my game state its just black screen then desktop.

And of course its pirated I have no fucking intent to ever give a dime to these stinking Sweede leaches. I also upgraded graphic drivers yesterday to see would it help.

I got a 6 6 6 queen in this playthrough, all saves I have are round 49~50something MB (no compression) and if it doesn't work im going on Paradox Brejvik style.

If you have saves from before 1700 keep replying from further and further back.

The ssue might be an AI faction doing something to bring on a CTD that if you keep reloading it keeps doing. In that case reloading further back makes that choice less likely. When something like that would happen in CivIII I'd have to reload back even a dozen or more turns back and then would try fucking around to really change the direction the game was going so effect all AI choices that would help prevent its reoccurrence.

If that fails, save the saves and reinstall.
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,242
Location
Space Hell
DDs: Down with the Estates micro
Good day all, Tuesday is here once again as it often is, so let's dive into another Dev Diary for the upcoming European Update. Last week we were all about how you can project your power externally, so this week let's look more internally, with focus on Estates.

Back in April we had a dev diary which was largely an expunge of thoughts on the Estates feature, where it's been and we still want to take it. Let's get a recap on our thoughts from then:


Firstly, the busywork element of Estates should be removed, or at the very least reduced. our Grand Strategy games are about creating , without sounding too pretentious, intellectually stimulating experiences, and the current methods of interacting with your Estates are not up to par with this.

Additionally, the actions done through the estates should be more impactful. I've said it quite a few times before, but I'll say it again, when a Diet is called, perhaps there should be...a Diet? Impactful is an easy word to throw around with various different meanings being drawn from it, but in Estates' cases, the existing interactions often make little change worth noting outside of their influence and loyalty, which has limited meaningful effect on your nation until hitting crisis point where they can seize control of your nation through disaster.

On another note, making the Estate UI more accessible would be a boon. Currently, much of the hands-on actions are somewhat buried as menus within menu
Over the past few months we've been pondering how we can make such aspirations a reality, and today we'll share where we are with that.

As mentioned last week, and will continue to be mentioned, any numbers seen and especially interfaces seen, are not in their final form

index.php


As teased earlier, one of the first things we did with Estates is completely remove their relationship with individual provinces. This interaction with estates was always micro intensive, deeply confusing for new players, caused a lot of issues with 1444 setup for many nations (Nobles eating all my gold provinces) and scaled fairly terribly into the late game. It was not without its charms: assigning individual estates to individual provinces could have a nice internal management feel, but it was not an action that lent itself well to the expansion loop of the game. It was hard to feel excited about the estate allocation to your newest 20 provinces, while a tall player would have little interaction to be done throughout the entire game.

The death of direct province ties gives birth to a new concept in EUIV, that of Crown Land. Every nation with Estates has their Crown Land to manage. Much like how previously Estates started with a share of provinces, now they own a certain percentage of Crown Land. There is 100% of Crown Land which is divided between the various Estates, and the nation's own full control.

index.php

Pie-chart, coder art flavour. The French have yet to reign in their nobles

Estates' portion of Crown Land will heavily affect their influence, as well as many of the interactions you have with them. Conversely, your nation's control over Crown Land is of grave importance: If you want to be a strong, absolutist state heaving into the Age of Absolutism, you'll want to wrestle control away from your estates, and giving up all of your crown land will have negative effects of your control over the nation.

You have many avenues of influence over Crown Land. Firstly, there are three direct interactions available in the Estate Screen.

  • Sale of Titles
    • Sell 5% Crown Land to the Estates based on Influence for 1 Year of Income
    • +5% All Estate Loyalty
  • Seize Land
    • Gain 3% Crown Lands, estates loses based on their influence
    • -10% All Estate Loyalty
    • Give +5 Unrest to random provinces up until you equivalent development the estates hold.
    • Spawn rebels fitting for the most influential estate type.
  • Summon the Diet
    • [REDACTED]
    • [REDACTED]
    • [REDACTED]
Additionally, developing your lands directly will increase your direct share of Crown Land, while acquiring new provinces will boost your Estates' share, based on their current influence. Highly influential estates will see it as their right to enjoy the lion's share of new lands.

Another big change happening here are with the interactions one has with the estates. I'll refer to an excellent post from the aforementioned dev diary.


So here are my thoughts on Estates: atm they are unnecessary button clicks that u can do every 20 tears to get free monarch points, also as some governments (like hordes) the best play is to just remove them entirely. I think they should be a lot more impactful, once your nation get's bigger, since they were what helped kings keep big empires together in Europe.
We don't want Estates to be the monarch point and advisor generating buttons that you hammer every couple decades, but in reality, it's how a lot of people use it. Heck, it's how I use it, so what's to be done here?

We actually turned this into a guiding principal of designing the Estate screen and their interactions. We were not to have any interactions which the user would return there on a regular pulse to repeat. As such, all old Estate interactions have been removed, and we have instead introduced a system of Estate Privileges

index.php


index.php


Once again, all numbers and Interfaces are far from complete. You won't be seeing a screen full of ??? on release (well, I certainly hope not)

Rather than actions with cooldowns that you demand or bestow your Estates as before, these Privileges are meaty interactions that you can choose to take with your estates. They will impact on their Influence/Loyalty/Crown Land Share and come with a variety of effects, often wide reaching, long lasting and more often than not, impacting on your maximum absolutism. When the age of Absolutism comes around, you may well consider revoking these Privileges to gain absolute control over the state (Although if your ambitions are Revolutionary, you may have other plans...)

Each Estate type have their own Privileges and many of the old functions of estates are accounted for. The nobility, for example, can give you added military power per month if you're willing to guarantee them precious crown land, while the Rajputs will enable the direct recruitment of Rajput Regiments, in exchange for permanently increased influence. While such Privileges can be revoked, much like seizing the crown land away from them, you will invoke their ire, and should be done when you have either sufficiently appeased the estates through other means, or are ready to deal with their rebellions.

We'll certainly be back to talk more about these Estate changes as development on the upcoming European Update continues. As ever, questions and comments are welcome in this thread, and next week we'll go on to talk about another sizeable change of a more Ecumenical variety.
DD: Down with mercspam
Good day and welcome to another Development Diary for EU4's upcoming European Update + Expansion. After enjoying a plethora of maps, missions and other content work from our esteemed content designers, I'm here to turn our attention towards the mechanical changes and additions we can look forward to in said European update.

We're going to start with Mercenaries. Not too long ago, I penned a dev diary outlining our ambitions with mercenaries

I'll take this moment to draw attention to the fact that the UI and numbers are far from final

index.php


In the upcoming Euro update, the old method of recruiting mercenary units one by one in individual provinces is replaced by the action of hiring Mercenary Companies. Mercenary Companies are complete armies of pure mercenaries, as such will not consume from your manpower pool. They can be recruited in any of your core provinces, where they spawn at full strength, but with low morale.

Mercenary Companies come in two flavours: Local Mercenaries and Foreign Mercenaries.

All nations have three bands of local mercenaries available for recruitment, ranging in size from small to large, capped at a minimum of 2 units and a maximum of 40, depending on the development of your nation. Other than the fact that all nations will have local mercenaries available for hire, there is nothing special about them.

index.php


Things get a little more interesting with foreign mercenaries. Across the world, there will be foreign mercenary companies, tied to a province of origin; the Free Swiss Guard from Bern, the Flemish Company from Vlaanderen, the Raiders from Navajo etc. These companies come with their own General who is loyal to that unit and that unit only. They also can have different costs and modifiers on the unit, depending on which company you hire from. These companies can spawn and despawn over the course of the grand campaign, but no matter how much you want any particular mercenary company, you can only recruit Mercenary Companies within your trade range. So while you may feel confident invading a colonial Portugal, know that they may well have a far larger pool of Mercenary Companies to draw upon.

index.php


So let's take a closer look at the mercenary units themselves. They are typically more expensive than your standard nation's armies, although those costs compared to the current 1.28 mercenaries are likely to be reduced. This is largely due to how Mercenaries will no longer have unlimited manpower, able to feed themselves with coins and bandage wounds with solid gold. No, from the upcoming European update and going forward, Mercenaries will have their own local manpower, unique for their army

index.php


Not to belabour the point, but UI and numbers shown and discussed here are far from final

Once you hire, for example, this Cossack Host, they will replenish any lost souls from their own unique manpower pool until, eventually, they will be completely exhausted and no longer able fight at full strength, leaving them liable to be wiped out in battle. Our intention here is for mercenary companies to be the muscle you flex in times of war and conflict, rather than the go-to permanent standing army for all nations. To this effect:


Make mercenaries always stay at 100% maintenance
We added this and are quite happy with the results. If a nation chooses to rely heavily or exclusively on mercenaries at all times, they will certainly be footing the bill for them.

As for when you terminate your deal with any Mercenary Company, they will leave your nation and your command like all other units, but will not be available to hire by your nation for 10 years. If, in time of great war, you may find yourself at a disadvantage if you have exhausted your access of mercenaries against a foe who has many other companies at their disposal.

You may notice that the Local Manpower for a mercenary army replaces certain actions in the UI. While mercenary regiments can still be consolidated, they fight as a single unit under their leader. They will not accept being lead by another leader or army and cannot be split, nor merged with another. In the event that their leader dies, they shall elect a new leader from within.

index.php


In playtesting, this has lead to it feeling rather chunky, when manoeuvring multiple stacks which cannot be merged together, as they can have different arrival times and movement paths. We are looking into a better way to manage such stacks of armies, and as inconsistent arrival times has been a bugbear for some time, it seems a fitting moment to address it.

Some other points about Mercenaries which warrant bringing up here:
  • Hiring a Mercenary Company won't prevent another nation from hiring from that company too. We didn't want to create a situation where the player who clicks fastest gets those juicy Swiss mercs.
  • Mercenaries will use your nation's military stats, then apply any of their own modifiers on top of that. We did not want to echo the situation in EU3, where mercenaries would end up clearly spending all your money on booze because they were too drunk to fight well.
  • Mercenaries will be hired through the macro builder rather than through the provinces. This should help reduce click fatigue, but also necessitates some work on the Macro Builder, which we'll address in a future DD.
  • With Mercenaries no longer being a bottomless source of manpower, base manpower is likely to increase for all nations, likely by increasing the base amount development gives and/or boosting the value of manpower buildings.
  • Mercenaries are to use unit models fitting for their origin.
  • All changes above are going to be part of the free update.

This is a major change to system that has been largely untouched since EU3, and it won't be until 2020 that this update hits the shelves. The system is likely to get some refinement based on playtesting and feedback. Early results show a lot more involvement with Mercenary Companies, especially in multiplayer. Hearing "Oh bollocks he hired the Swiss" down the microphone certainly evokes much glee, but we shall continue refining the system. We shall be back with more about Mercenaries, as well as the content that goes hand in hand with the system, as development continues.

As ever, comments and feedback are welcome in the thread. Next week we'll be tackling another large change coming in the European Update.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,180
Location
Bulgaria
DDs: Down with the Estates micro
Ahhh,they were made in a way that didn't add micro unless you want it. When i play i prefer the nation bonuses than the retarded 100-150 point milking. I just leave them without land and just give them the loyalty buttons from time to time,that never stopped me from wc. Have no idea why are people using it tho,clearly wide nation buff is better than getting your mil idea year earlier.

DD: Down with mercspam
Ahhh,it still looks like a fucking merc spam to me,it is just more expensive. Did you notice that they are not making it like in CK2 where once you hired mercs the enemy can't hire the exact same group? Here every nation will have the access to the same groups even if the enemy is already hired them. It is very dumbed down compared to ck2. Still far better than before. I do normally just disable mercs in the files and have manpower focused game.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,180
Location
Bulgaria
Manpower shouldn't even be in the game before late 18th century.
Yes,you should use potatos as your main force. Manpower makes perfect sense in any age,the men in a productive age that live in your country. Now standing armies don't make sense till 18th century.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
16,293
Location
At large
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Manpower shouldn't even be in the game before late 18th century.
That's if we were talking about a game that at least attempts at being realistic about army recruitment.

The whole realtime gameplay concept is inherently at odds with realism.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,180
Location
Bulgaria
:negative::negative::negative::negative::negative:`

FUCK!!!!!! I just decided to have game in autism and taxes. I just opened the mission screen and my dick got hard by the amount and quality of them all......then i just saw the rewards.......fuck it killed my enthusiasm. All of them have the worst rewards in any mod/vanilla i have played. All of them are like 5 prestige or 10 legitimacy or some useless shit like that,no fucking perma claims or anything that makes you feel like playing a fucking campaign,nah all of them are useless garbage. Fucking autists should be shot at birth!!!
 

gunman

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
1,050
Manpower shouldn't even be in the game before late 18th century.
Yes,you should use potatos as your main force. Manpower makes perfect sense in any age,the men in a productive age that live in your country. Now standing armies don't make sense till 18th century.

For realism, it should be another country dependent factor: alcoholism. Alcoholism combined with manpower should determine the speed of recruitment and size of armies.

A higher level of alcoholism could mean slower raise, but huge armies. Also, attacking across rivers would grant-1000% penalty
 
Last edited:

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,242
Location
Space Hell
Given how soldiers were mostly mustered manpower should be even more important. You always could go around and press gang peasants or serfs. Or recruit during hunger times.
 

attackfighter

Magister
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
2,307
Manpower goes up when you, for instance, move the slider bar closer towards the 'serfdom' side of the serfdom/free subjects axis, so we can infer that manpower doesn't represent the total number of fighting-age men in a country but the total number of fighting age men that the government, given its recruitment tactics, is able to skim off the top. Why you're able to stockpile this number, I'm not sure. You could imagine that your magistrates have made lists of potential draftees that you can round up very easily, but then to grab additional recruits you have to rely on the slow process of having your recruitment officers trick drunks into signing up, or whatever.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,847
Given how soldiers were mostly mustered manpower should be even more important. You always could go around and press gang peasants or serfs. Or recruit during hunger times.
While it's a common meme, that's not how most armies of the period were like. "Go recruit everyone and do a Volkssturm" was a thing in early middle ages, when most kingdoms were still de facto tribal to a degree, but gradually fell out of use. After all, not only was a peasant total SHIT at fighting (bar a few exceptions, such as ordering everyone to train with a longbow like the English did and thus make everyone de facto militia), you were also murdering your taxbase by marching them off to death. Armies were usually composed from professional soldiers (yes, those were a thing even in middle ages, only they didn't form the bulk of the army), the nobility (including minor nobility, which was quite numerous), and, most importantly, mercenaries. Mercenaries were massively important, and their role only grew with subsequent years (hell, the modern era is basically the mercenary era up to the point where standing armies became a thing), something that isn't really represented in EU4 very well. When you read that the armies were mainly formed by commoners, it is true, but those "commoners" mean professional mercenaries, not rounded up serfs marched to war.

To illustrate this better, you can imagine it on a timeline starting with early middle ages. You start with literal peasants being called to war, but those "peasants" generally saw battle before; they knew what they were doing since we're still taking about what's basically tribals. Then as we move forth, we see less and less of these "peasants" and instead see the muster get formed by nobility (again, there was a LOT of minor nobility), some professional soldiers (english housecarls, for example), and mercenaries, with the role of mercenaries steadily growing over time, until the time of standing armies. Various militias of course also played an important role, but unless the city in question was under siege, the militia really wouldn't consist of every inhabitant by far, and would be mostly left to a number of previously selected men who then train for fighting in the long term.

Of course, it is necessary to mention that I'm generalizing a lot here - every country had its own approach to recruitment, army composition, etc. and it varied greatly over time.
 
Self-Ejected

MajorMace

Self-Ejected
Patron
Joined
May 6, 2018
Messages
2,008
Location
Souffrance, Franka
Why you're able to stockpile this number, I'm not sure
I always considered it as the time it takes for a new generation of aristocrats to be ready to field some men actually trained for war.
As your demography is alright for a long period of time, the number barely moves as the young replace the old, hence the 'stockpile'
 

Agame

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
1,702
Location
I cum from a land down under
Insert Title Here
Btw, I would love to see Mercs being able to go renegade and turn into "merc rebel" units that hoist the black flag and go around on random pillaging sprees, sacking and conquering shit until someone takes them out, they make it rich or they carve their own turf. I'm thinking Thirty-Years War here.

This would be a great idea that could be turned into a system to punish "merc spam".
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,847
Btw, I would love to see Mercs being able to go renegade and turn into "merc rebel" units that hoist the black flag and go around on random pillaging sprees, sacking and conquering shit until someone takes them out, they make it rich or they carve their own turf. I'm thinking Thirty-Years War here.
Or Mercenary War in Carthage. It could be a neat system for when you fail to pay your mercs. Still, I'd rather see EU4 try to simulate how armies actually were, rather than having large standing armies in the 15th century
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,094
This would be a great idea that could be turned into a system to punish "merc spam".

Better would be the antics the condottieri did meeting up with each other when hired by two sides and then perform mock fighting in battles to draw the war out and get paid more. Their employers would be furious but often tread careful so as to not piss off the companies of violent men they'd hire and give them an excuse to turn on them or side with the enemy.
 

SymbolicFrank

Magister
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,668
If Paradox would make a GTA game, they would change the traffic rules.

You wouldn't be allowed to:

1. Turn left.
2. Pass a green light, only yellow.
3. Drive a car that is heavier than 500 kg, or with more than 50 hp.
4. Shoot cops.
5. Outrun cops.
6. Crash a cops car.
7. Steal a car.
8. Overtake any other car.
9. Fire your gun while driving.

And you would have to wait minutes until you have enough action points to do anything.

Because, otherwise it would be too easy to have fun and win.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,910
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
Dropping to game in 1444 having standing armies of tens of thousands men is ridiculous. Spain is earliest one in Europe proper with a standing army and it wasn't until Italian wars, same with French. The Italian republics like Genoese and Venetians would almost standing mercenaries who were active year long but they were the exception. Austria starts with so many soldiers, Austria didn't even have a standing army until 1600s and then it was a small part. It was a big deal when Wallenstein standardised the mercenary recruitment and supply after all, often overlooked compared to flashy figures like Gustav Adolf.

Basically, this game should be about how from 1444 to 1820s, the armies went from a collection of feudal/noble levies, mercenaries, militia to nearly all standing armies. That would also better explain and represent Europe's military dominion in rest of the world from late 18th century onward. The mercenary remake they are doing now is a step in right direction but the balance of standing to mercenaries and levies should be looked at as well. It needs CK2 like levy rising at war time. It would also better represent holy roman empire too in 17th century which Habsburgs would have standing armies in Austria with noble levies and could also expect levies from electors, as well as mercenary companies.
 
Last edited:

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
16,293
Location
At large
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Dropping to game in 1444 having standing armies of tens of thousands men is ridiculous. Spain is earliest one in Europe proper with a standing army and it wasn't until Italian wars, same with French. The Italian republics like Genoese and Venetians would almost standing mercenaries who were active year long but they were the exception. Austria starts with so many soldiers, Austria didn't even have a standing army until 1600s and then it was a small part. It was a big deal when Wallenstein standardised the mercenary recruitment and supply after all, often overlooked compared to flashy figures like Gustav Adolf.

Basically, this game should be about how from 1444 to 1820s, the armies went from a collection of feudal/noble levies, mercenaries, militia to nearly all standing armies. That would also better explain and represent Europe's military dominion in rest of the world from late 18th century onward. The mercenary remake they are doing now is a step in right direction but the balance of standing to mercenaries and levies should be looked at as well. It needs CK2 like levy rising at war time. It would also better represent holy roman empire too in 17th century which Habsburgs would have standing armies in Austria with noble levies and could also expect levies from electors, as well as mercenary companies.
For a time I looked into means to mod in realistic army recruitment mechanics or realistic army numbers. It turned out that even if I do, I would have to script the AI using the new mechanics, and eventually I just resigned myself to the fact that EUIV is shit.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom