Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition (AKA AoE2 HD HD)

[Cael]

Turks are considered lowest tier in competitive in 1v1 on most maps though. All they're good at are teamgames that reach the imperial age where they can trade. And LC aren't necessarily weak but they suck against everything that's on level in upgrades, so they're mostly used in no-gold wars of the end game against skirmishers and villagers or for raiding before or after better raiding units become available. Also, spending 80 food per unit isn't a good way of getting to castle quickly.

AoE is a social team game. That is what all multiplayer computer games are supposed to be. 1v1 competitive play is a stupid yardstick to measure things by because normal people simply don't play it that way.

First rule of all games: Have fun. Preferably with friends.

Then you'll be sad to know that team games are played competitively too, and even if they weren't, there are still objectively good ways to play the game in any situation, and in most of those situations taking Turks and doing scout cav+fast castle is still bad vs any decent player or AI. Its not ruining fun, its understanding the game. Also, don't forget that there is always a risk of cancer creeping in as number of players increases and the whole match just comes down to who got less retarded team-mates. There's a reason skill based games don't have large team sizes.

It is called doing the unexpected. When you learn that skill, you become far more dangerous on the battlefield.

Son, I have used a single peasant to lock down an opponent on the gold rush map for over 5 minutes. In Dark Age. Now, tell me how that was done, since you know the game so well.

 

[Young_Hollow]

Turks are considered lowest tier in competitive in 1v1 on most maps though. All they're good at are teamgames that reach the imperial age where they can trade. And LC aren't necessarily weak but they suck against everything that's on level in upgrades, so they're mostly used in no-gold wars of the end game against skirmishers and villagers or for raiding before or after better raiding units become available. Also, spending 80 food per unit isn't a good way of getting to castle quickly.

AoE is a social team game. That is what all multiplayer computer games are supposed to be. 1v1 competitive play is a stupid yardstick to measure things by because normal people simply don't play it that way.

First rule of all games: Have fun. Preferably with friends.

Then you'll be sad to know that team games are played competitively too, and even if they weren't, there are still objectively good ways to play the game in any situation, and in most of those situations taking Turks and doing scout cav+fast castle is still bad vs any decent player or AI. Its not ruining fun, its understanding the game. Also, don't forget that there is always a risk of cancer creeping in as number of players increases and the whole match just comes down to who got less retarded team-mates. There's a reason skill based games don't have large team sizes.

It is called doing the unexpected. When you learn that skill, you become far more dangerous on the battlefield.

Son, I have used a single peasant to lock down an opponent on the gold rush map for over 5 minutes. In Dark Age. Now, tell me how that was done, since you know the game so well.

You can wall them in, wall in their gold, wall yourself in with the gold, rush with the wolves scattered around the map and a militia, etc. We've all messed with the AI man, and its fun I'll give you that.

 

[Cael]

Turks are considered lowest tier in competitive in 1v1 on most maps though. All they're good at are teamgames that reach the imperial age where they can trade. And LC aren't necessarily weak but they suck against everything that's on level in upgrades, so they're mostly used in no-gold wars of the end game against skirmishers and villagers or for raiding before or after better raiding units become available. Also, spending 80 food per unit isn't a good way of getting to castle quickly.

AoE is a social team game. That is what all multiplayer computer games are supposed to be. 1v1 competitive play is a stupid yardstick to measure things by because normal people simply don't play it that way.

First rule of all games: Have fun. Preferably with friends.

Then you'll be sad to know that team games are played competitively too, and even if they weren't, there are still objectively good ways to play the game in any situation, and in most of those situations taking Turks and doing scout cav+fast castle is still bad vs any decent player or AI. Its not ruining fun, its understanding the game. Also, don't forget that there is always a risk of cancer creeping in as number of players increases and the whole match just comes down to who got less retarded team-mates. There's a reason skill based games don't have large team sizes.

It is called doing the unexpected. When you learn that skill, you become far more dangerous on the battlefield.

Son, I have used a single peasant to lock down an opponent on the gold rush map for over 5 minutes. In Dark Age. Now, tell me how that was done, since you know the game so well.

You can wall them in, wall in their gold, wall yourself in with the gold, rush with the wolves scattered around the map and a militia, etc. We've all messed with the AI man, and its fun I'll give you that.

With one peasant in Dark Age...

Right. You have just proven you know jack and shit about the game.

By the way, doing the unexpected only works with human opponents. The AI doesn't really care either way.

 

[Young_Hollow]

With one peasant in Dark Age...

Right. You have just proven you know jack and shit about the game.

By the way, doing the unexpected only works with human opponents. The AI doesn't really care either way.

Then speak up genius, what did you do? Does one villager building something not count as using one villager? Do you know you can build walls in Dark Age? Did you wolfrush or not?

 

[Cael]

With one peasant in Dark Age...

Right. You have just proven you know jack and shit about the game.

By the way, doing the unexpected only works with human opponents. The AI doesn't really care either way.

Then speak up genius, what did you do? Does one villager building something not count as using one villager? Do you know you can build walls in Dark Age? Did you wolfrush or not?

You can't build walls in Dark Age, genius. You can build palisades, which is a waste of wood and time. A human opponent isn't just going to let his peasants hang around outside the palisade and not do anything for the rest of the game.

And if you are seriously advocating building a barracks in Dark Age... I'd look up a laughing gif, but you aren't worth the effort.

 

[Young_Hollow]

With one peasant in Dark Age...

Right. You have just proven you know jack and shit about the game.

By the way, doing the unexpected only works with human opponents. The AI doesn't really care either way.

Then speak up genius, what did you do? Does one villager building something not count as using one villager? Do you know you can build walls in Dark Age? Did you wolfrush or not?

You can't build walls in Dark Age, genius. You can build palisades, which is a waste of wood and time. A human opponent isn't just going to let his peasants hang around outside the palisade and not do anything for the rest of the game.

And if you are seriously advocating building a barracks in Dark Age... I'd look up a laughing gif, but you aren't worth the effort.

I thought you knew something for a second there, nice to know you're just retarded. Ofc they're palisades and they're used to wall in resources so villagers can't get to them. Seems even against the AI you haven't figured much out. They aren't useless, they tie up all the units attacking them for however long it takes them to destroy it, ever thought about that? The same thing you're claiming to have done but in reality actually do so as well. A human or whatever opponent with only the 4 gold mines near their base that they get on goldrush are dead when they run out, which is 800X4=3200 gold, not much to do anything with. And drushing is a strategy that is pursued in Dark Age, especially with Aztecs, who get the extra gold to create one more militia from the start. It will create great difficulties for anyone ageing up and not having any defences. But you probably wouldn't know it because you loom every time, because you probably can't lure a boar without it.

 

[Cael]

With one peasant in Dark Age...

Right. You have just proven you know jack and shit about the game.

By the way, doing the unexpected only works with human opponents. The AI doesn't really care either way.

Then speak up genius, what did you do? Does one villager building something not count as using one villager? Do you know you can build walls in Dark Age? Did you wolfrush or not?

You can't build walls in Dark Age, genius. You can build palisades, which is a waste of wood and time. A human opponent isn't just going to let his peasants hang around outside the palisade and not do anything for the rest of the game.

And if you are seriously advocating building a barracks in Dark Age... I'd look up a laughing gif, but you aren't worth the effort.

I thought you knew something for a second there, nice to know you're just retarded. Ofc they're palisades and they're used to wall in resources so villagers can't get to them. Seems even against the AI you haven't figured much out. They aren't useless, they tie up all the units attacking them for however long it takes them to destroy it, ever thought about that? The same thing you're claiming to have done but in reality actually do so as well. A human or whatever opponent with only the 4 gold mines near their base that they get on goldrush are dead when they run out, which is 800X4=3200 gold, not much to do anything with. And drushing is a strategy that is pursued in Dark Age, especially with Aztecs, who get the extra gold to create one more militia from the start. It will create great difficulties for anyone ageing up and not having any defences. But you probably wouldn't know it because you loom every time, because you probably can't lure a boar without it.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

You still insist on talking about AI opponents when I have made it clear that it is a human opponent.

You are crying about gold patches when it is DARK AGE, and no one gives a fuck about gold in Dark.

You talk about walling in resources using one peasant at the opponent's base, when the opponent has multiples of the same there and can quite easily surround and kill yours in less than a minute.

You talk about using militia when I made it clear that I only used a single peasant.

You don't even know the difference between a wall and a palisade in the game.

You try to divert attention with luring boars when it is not even germane to the conversation.

And you expect me to take you seriously when you talk about the game? You are a fool trying to sound like you know the game.

 

[Young_Hollow]

Look man, I can't tutor you about how getting gold in dark is the fastest way to get to castle, or how surprise is important in walling in an enemy's resources, or how responding to the ass cancer and misinformation you spew in your posts about once confusing someone who clearly knows even lesser than you do (if that was ever possible) in the game. You can keep your noob wizadry to yourself, if you actually know or did even half of it that is, and leave me out of it. Peace, and PM me your steam if you think you can beat me on HD anytime after Tuesday.

 

[Cael]

Look man, I can't tutor you about how getting gold in dark is the fastest way to get to castle, or how surprise is important in walling in an enemy's resources, or how responding to the ass cancer and misinformation you spew in your posts about once confusing someone who clearly knows even lesser than you do (if that was ever possible) in the game. You can keep your noob wizadry to yourself, if you actually know or did even half of it that is, and leave me out of it. Peace, and PM me your steam if you think you can beat me on HD anytime after Tuesday.

On HD. Ah, that explains so much. We are talking to a fucktard millennial noob here, boys. A guy who thinks that trying to wall in an opponent's resources is somehow a good thing. He must be playing against equally noob millennials who have the attention span of gnats and the situational awareness of a goldfish.

Hilariously, he ran away from the original question and is trying to come up with all sorts of theory crafted nonsense about how a single peasant can delay a human opponent for quite some time in Dark Age by delaying them in Castle Age. This guy is truly funny.

 

[Young_Hollow]

Look man, I can't tutor you about how getting gold in dark is the fastest way to get to castle, or how surprise is important in walling in an enemy's resources, or how responding to the ass cancer and misinformation you spew in your posts about once confusing someone who clearly knows even lesser than you do (if that was ever possible) in the game. You can keep your noob wizadry to yourself, if you actually know or did even half of it that is, and leave me out of it. Peace, and PM me your steam if you think you can beat me on HD anytime after Tuesday.

On HD. Ah, that explains so much. We are talking to a fucktard millennial noob here, boys. A guy who thinks that trying to wall in an opponent's resources is somehow a good thing. He must be playing against equally noob millennials who have the attention span of gnats and the situational awareness of a goldfish.

Hilariously, he ran away from the original question and is trying to come up with all sorts of theory crafted nonsense about how a single peasant can delay a human opponent for quite some time in Dark Age by delaying them in Castle Age. This guy is truly funny.

Your reading comprehension isn't that good but that's OK. I'm replying because I used to think like a such a dumbfuck too until I realised that everything has its role in the game and I'm not a master because I got lucky once. You're the one dodging the question, and steering the conversation away by saying retardation like gold is irrelevant in the dark age. It depends on what strategy you're following in the next age, so it takes your level of chromosome deficiency to say something like that. I know that I know enough simply by the fact that you haven't yet said how you did what you claim you did.

Also, you're making way too many assumptions, including that I play only HD, which I got after throwing thousands of hours into the original game. Don't think you're better than me you retard is all I have to say to someone who chickens out into a diversion when challenged to a match.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Son, I have used a single peasant to lock down an opponent on the gold rush map for over 5 minutes. In Dark Age. Now, tell me how that was done, since you know the game so well.

So what was it?

 

[Cael]

Look man, I can't tutor you about how getting gold in dark is the fastest way to get to castle, or how surprise is important in walling in an enemy's resources, or how responding to the ass cancer and misinformation you spew in your posts about once confusing someone who clearly knows even lesser than you do (if that was ever possible) in the game. You can keep your noob wizadry to yourself, if you actually know or did even half of it that is, and leave me out of it. Peace, and PM me your steam if you think you can beat me on HD anytime after Tuesday.

On HD. Ah, that explains so much. We are talking to a fucktard millennial noob here, boys. A guy who thinks that trying to wall in an opponent's resources is somehow a good thing. He must be playing against equally noob millennials who have the attention span of gnats and the situational awareness of a goldfish.

Hilariously, he ran away from the original question and is trying to come up with all sorts of theory crafted nonsense about how a single peasant can delay a human opponent for quite some time in Dark Age by delaying them in Castle Age. This guy is truly funny.

Your reading comprehension isn't that good but that's OK. I'm replying because I used to think like a such a dumbfuck too until I realised that everything has its role in the game and I'm not a master because I got lucky once. You're the one dodging the question, and steering the conversation away by saying retardation like gold is irrelevant in the dark age. It depends on what strategy you're following in the next age, so it takes your level of chromosome deficiency to say something like that. I know that I know enough simply by the fact that you haven't yet said how you did what you claim you did.

Also, you're making way too many assumptions, including that I play only HD, which I got after throwing thousands of hours into the original game. Don't think you're better than me you retard is all I have to say to someone who chickens out into a diversion when challenged to a match.

Ah, yes. The old "I will accuse the other guy of what I did" form of debate. Whatever, kid. Other people can decide who was the one trying to obfuscate and divert the topic. To me, you are a useless git who has never played the game in his life. An utter moron pretending to know something.

 

[Cael]

Son, I have used a single peasant to lock down an opponent on the gold rush map for over 5 minutes. In Dark Age. Now, tell me how that was done, since you know the game so well.

So what was it?

I used a peasant to lure about 12 wolves to his lumber operation, placing the stream of wolves between his peasants and his towncentre. Then, I deleted the peasant, causing the wolves to stop pursuing the now dead peasant and seek the nearest target: his peasants.

Because it was so unexpected, there was a few vital seconds of stunned WTF??? and then a lot of screaming. He lost a number of peasants before he could run them past the wolves and back to his TC, and now he had a bunch of wolves sitting on his TC waiting for peasants to appear. He had to kill each wolf individually before he could let his peasants out again. The other players were asking what was going on when he started yelling and screaming, and then they were in stitches when they found out what happened.

Needless to say, my team won that match, and I got a lot of "Fuck you!" from the guy and a few "You are such a bastard!" from everyone else, but all in good fun :D

As I said: Having fun is the only real rule in multiplayer games.

 

[Young_Hollow]

lol so I was right in the first place.

 

[Cael]

lol so I was right in the first place.

No. Your guess was to build a wall, which has been established as being a fucking stupid thing to do since there are no walls in Dark.

 

[Goi~Yaas~Dinn]

So Microsoft still aren't done raping the corpse of this poor game? As a fan of the Ensemble-led installments, you have no idea how agonizing reading the changelog for Forgotten Empires was. Same with AoE Definitive.

 

[Cael]

So Microsoft still aren't done raping the corpse of this poor game? As a fan of the Ensemble-led installments, you have no idea how agonizing reading the changelog for Forgotten Empires was. Same with AoE Definitive.

I doubt any game dev will ever stop raping the corpses of beloved games. Even Ultima and Star Control just got raped after years of nothing.

 

[Goi~Yaas~Dinn]

So Microsoft still aren't done raping the corpse of this poor game? As a fan of the Ensemble-led installments, you have no idea how agonizing reading the changelog for Forgotten Empires was. Same with AoE Definitive.

I doubt any game dev will ever stop raping the corpses of beloved games. Even Ultima and Star Control just got raped after years of nothing.

If it were Ensemble, it wouldn't be "raping". This is Microsoft, though. They were just the publisher.

 

[Young_Hollow]

So Microsoft still aren't done raping the corpse of this poor game? As a fan of the Ensemble-led installments, you have no idea how agonizing reading the changelog for Forgotten Empires was. Same with AoE Definitive.

What was wrong with Forgotten Empires? Other than the new civs all they did was mainly fix balance issues and add multiple que. The campaigns were nice, the little I played of them, but the lack of voice acting put me off. For me, it was in African Kingdoms and Rise of the Rajas that they deviated from established unwritten rules of the AoE2 tech tree like not giving faith or not giving at least one among paladin / arbalest / champion. Also not giving even 2nd level armor upgrades and unique units that seem OP (arambai, shotel, etc). Given that, I'm still looking forward to playing RoR and AfK when I get the DE since they were greedy fucks with discounting them.

 

[Goi~Yaas~Dinn]

What was wrong with Forgotten Empires?

Two unique techs per Civ seems...i dunno, gratuitous. That was a nice little oddity that made the Goths unique, why spoil that? This was the first thing that bothered me, though there were definitely others. Did you really want me to go through, blow-by-blow? Don't want to bore you.

 

[BING XI LAO]

I am pretty curious as to what there is to dislike about the forgotten's changelogs.

 

[Young_Hollow]

What was wrong with Forgotten Empires?

Two unique techs per Civ seems...i dunno, gratuitous. That was a nice little oddity that made the Goths unique, why spoil that? This was the first thing that bothered me, though there were definitely others. Did you really want me to go through, blow-by-blow? Don't want to bore you.

Yeah some secondary unique techs are pointless, but some were needed to make civs more preferable to play. Like Franks, who used to have 192hp paladins and 120hp knights vs everyones' 160hp paladins 100hp knights in AoK but kinda fell off in competitiveness when they got a useless unique tech and no bloodlines in AoC. In AoF they came back on the competitive radar thanks to getting squires, chivalry and a small eco bonus, and IMO are much more fun to play than the one trick pony they were before. Goth still have the distinction of being the only civ to make use of both though, because most secondary UTs are very situational, unlike the Goth one.

Everyone will have their issues, but I was wondering what they might be because I see AoF/AoFE as a definite net positive because of balance changes, new civs being balanced and generally revitalizing the competitive and tournament scene to play more interesting matchups. The other two on the other hand are in a grey area for me as I said earlier. Seems to me that in terms of sticking to its roots / not having radical changes, AoF was the best.

 

[Goi~Yaas~Dinn]

I am pretty curious as to what there is to dislike about the forgotten's changelogs.

- Houses cost -5 wood (25 wood).
...Why?
- Palisade Walls take +1 second to build.
That seems pretty retarded, considering the intended role of Palisade Walls in AoE.
- Stone Walls take +3 seconds to build.
Good.
- Stone Walls -50% HP in Feudal Age.
More retardation for the sake of "balance". Once again, this fucks the intended early-game use of walls right up the asshole.
- Building HP reduced in Dark and Feudal Age.
'kay.
- Onagers can kill trees.
Fucking why?
- Trebuchets can attack trees much more effectively.
Nice.
- Villagers can be garrisoned inside rams.
Nice.
- Castles +1 LOS (range bug).
Excellent
- Guard Towers and Keeps get +1 attack.
...Why?
- Transport Ships available in Dark Age.
u wat m80?
- Palisade Gate cost decreased to 20 wood.
The entire concept of "Palisade Gates" is sheer fuckin' lunacy.
- Fish Trap construction time decreased by 13 sec (train time=40, Farms are still 15).
Why?
- Cartography is free to research and is researched almost instantly.
Still not done sodomizing the early game, I see.
- Town Patrol costs -100 gold (300 food, 100 gold).
Why?
- Outposts cost -5 stone.
Oh come now, that was just change for the sake of it. Don't fuck with shit that doesn't explicitly need it, eh?
- Fire Ships and Fast Fire Ships have +20 HP.
4-watt porpoise?
- Demolition Ships and Heavy Demolition Ships have +10 HP.
'kay.
- Trade Cog generate +10% gold.
I cannot for the life of me think why this was done.
- Cavalry Archers cost -5 gold.
What cripplingly-bad balance issue was this addressing, again?
- Capped Ram garrison 5 units increased from 4.
Not a bad idea.
- Long Swordsmen +5 HP.
4-watt porpoise?
- Long Swordsmen, Two-Handed Swordsmen, and Champions have +2 attack vs. Eagle Scouts, Eagle Warriors, and Elite Eagle Warriors.
Not a bad idea.
- Petards cost -15 food (65 food, 20 gold).
Why in the EVER-LOVING FUCK are you encouraging Petard spam like this? Making cheap shots easier is the polar opposite of game-balancing, in my opinion.
- Spearmen, Pikemen, and Halberdiers +1 attack against Camels, Heavy Camels, and Imperial Camels.
What idiot on the team proposed this, and why weren't they roundly slapped shitless?
- Heavy Camel upgrade -20 secs research time.
Tell me there was a good reason for this.
- Tracking cost reduced to 50 food.
Ditto.
- Squires cost reduced to 100 food.
Ditto.
- Two-Handed Swordsmen have 12 attack (instead of 11).
To address what, exactly?
- Men-at-Arms, Long Swordsmen, Two-Handed Swordsmen and Champions get +1 attack against buildings.
Same question.
- Eagle Warriors have +5 hit points.
Prolly re-balancing to take into account the Eagle Scout....
- Camels have +1 base attack (6), but -1 attack bonus against cavalry (9).
Who on the dev team keeps obsessively fucking with camels!? Why? Leave the poor animals alone, fer chrissakes!
- Fervor fixed (never worked in AoC).
Almost goes without saying, really.
- Monks holding relics suffer from anti-monk damage.
Definitely.
- Murder Holes cost -100 stone.
Stop it. Stop it right this instant. You've demonstrated with appalling clarity you've no idea what to do in this area of the game.
- Chemistry affects Castles and Town Centers.
As it prolly always should have.

Continue?

 

[Young_Hollow]

I am pretty curious as to what there is to dislike about the forgotten's changelogs.

- Houses cost -5 wood (25 wood).
...Why?
- Palisade Walls take +1 second to build.
That seems pretty retarded, considering the intended role of Palisade Walls in AoE.
- Stone Walls take +3 seconds to build.
Good.
- Stone Walls -50% HP in Feudal Age.
More retardation for the sake of "balance". Once again, this fucks the intended early-game use of walls right up the asshole.
- Building HP reduced in Dark and Feudal Age.
'kay.
- Onagers can kill trees.
Fucking why?
- Trebuchets can attack trees much more effectively.
Nice.
- Villagers can be garrisoned inside rams.
Nice.
- Castles +1 LOS (range bug).
Excellent
- Guard Towers and Keeps get +1 attack.
...Why?
- Transport Ships available in Dark Age.
u wat m80?
- Palisade Gate cost decreased to 20 wood.
The entire concept of "Palisade Gates" is sheer fuckin' lunacy.
- Fish Trap construction time decreased by 13 sec (train time=40, Farms are still 15).
Why?
- Cartography is free to research and is researched almost instantly.
Still not done sodomizing the early game, I see.
- Town Patrol costs -100 gold (300 food, 100 gold).
Why?
- Outposts cost -5 stone.
Oh come now, that was just change for the sake of it. Don't fuck with shit that doesn't explicitly need it, eh?
- Fire Ships and Fast Fire Ships have +20 HP.
4-watt porpoise?
- Demolition Ships and Heavy Demolition Ships have +10 HP.
'kay.
- Trade Cog generate +10% gold.
I cannot for the life of me think why this was done.
- Cavalry Archers cost -5 gold.
What cripplingly-bad balance issue was this addressing, again?
- Capped Ram garrison 5 units increased from 4.
Not a bad idea.
- Long Swordsmen +5 HP.
4-watt porpoise?
- Long Swordsmen, Two-Handed Swordsmen, and Champions have +2 attack vs. Eagle Scouts, Eagle Warriors, and Elite Eagle Warriors.
Not a bad idea.
- Petards cost -15 food (65 food, 20 gold).
Why in the EVER-LOVING FUCK are you encouraging Petard spam like this? Making cheap shots easier is the polar opposite of game-balancing, in my opinion.
- Spearmen, Pikemen, and Halberdiers +1 attack against Camels, Heavy Camels, and Imperial Camels.
What idiot on the team proposed this, and why weren't they roundly slapped shitless?
- Heavy Camel upgrade -20 secs research time.
Tell me there was a good reason for this.
- Tracking cost reduced to 50 food.
Ditto.
- Squires cost reduced to 100 food.
Ditto.
- Two-Handed Swordsmen have 12 attack (instead of 11).
To address what, exactly?
- Men-at-Arms, Long Swordsmen, Two-Handed Swordsmen and Champions get +1 attack against buildings.
Same question.
- Eagle Warriors have +5 hit points.
Prolly re-balancing to take into account the Eagle Scout....
- Camels have +1 base attack (6), but -1 attack bonus against cavalry (9).
Who on the dev team keeps obsessively fucking with camels!? Why? Leave the poor animals alone, fer chrissakes!
- Fervor fixed (never worked in AoC).
Almost goes without saying, really.
- Monks holding relics suffer from anti-monk damage.
Definitely.
- Murder Holes cost -100 stone.
Stop it. Stop it right this instant. You've demonstrated with appalling clarity you've no idea what to do in this area of the game.
- Chemistry affects Castles and Town Centers.
As it prolly always should have.

Continue?

Most of the changes were made with the competitive scene in mind and to fix what was back then dominance of Huns on open / rush maps.

1.Houses, cav archers : Huns were dominating on Arabia (the most popular map) and their main bonuses were lack of houses and cheap cav archers. They were so cheap for them that it was no use for any other civ to make them (except Mongols in some situations) and no civ could outmass Huns when they were up against them. So the impact of constructing houses and making cav archers were reduced. 5 gold over 40 CAs is 200 gold, and such reductions were made so more cav archer civs would make them.

2. Longswordsmen line : they were and still are underused in competitive (except by Goths) due to lack of villager killing ability. So squires were made cheaper and their performance against raiding infantry (ie eagle warriors) were increased, among other things that were designed to make them more used in favour of cavalry and archers.

3. Walls : walling was seen as a problem in the meta and as an easy way to cheese opponents into the later ages by stonewalling in feudal itself. Walling was seen as too fast and easy a method so their hp was staggered and construction time was increased. Makes sense to me since stone walls were feudal age buildings that would only be destroyed efficiently with castle age units. Walling was also used when games lagged in general was seen by everyone as a way for unskilled players to prolong / cheese their fate. Palisade gates seemed a cool thing to do. There are those made of stone so why not wood?

4. Camels : the story of the camel is a sad one. They were created unequal because they were classified as ships in the original AoC/AoK and hence took massive damage from building fire, as all ships do. Due to this and their low attack, they were very cost ineffective units to make as they could counter knights somewhat and do nothing else. They couldn't raid or fight under any enemy buildings and cheaper units were there that had the same amount of attack. So they were declassified (first by limiting the bonus they took and later by removing it completely) and things were done to encourage their use on the battlefield. This mis-classification applied to petards too I think.

5. Water changes : fishtraps were underused, so they were buffed. So were trade cogs. The Galley line was undisputed only used naval unit so other ships were buffed. The build for making them was called 'grush' and the game was at a stage where it was impossible to win the water without doing it. Transports were allowed in dark for fun, because it allowed you to travel around on nomadic island maps, plant sneaky second base near opponent early, etc.

6. Other stuff : town patrol was overpriced plain and simple. I felt this the first time I saw it. Outposts were underused and didn't make sense to build for so much stone. They're menat to serve as disposable LOS beacons so no use making them cost stone, which is scarcest on the map. Eliminating stone cost would mean spam. Murder holes was essential if you wanted to make towers offensively, and in most maps, stone is very rare. Also needed for defending with castles so it was decided it cost too much stone, especially for someone looking to put up a castle who had to work however many vills it took to mine enough stone for a castle, MH and 2 town centers. And cartography just seemed logical since seeing what you ally sees provides for more decision making rather than waiting to do a tech.

EDIT : not saying you're wrong, but these were the reasons discussed for these changes when the AoFE mod was in development.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Seeing these little changes Forgotten made - I really like them. And it feels like you have a lot of aversion to change itself - why else would you dislike minor stuff -5 gold on cav archer cost? Sure, it can be a bit irritating having your memories of the ruleset become inaccurate, but these changes are all quite good. If camels had started with 6 attack I really doubt you'd ever argue they should be taken down to 5, for example.