Official Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

In Progress DECLINE 22: Primitive Proliferation

Discussion in 'MP Gaming' started by Dayyālu, Jan 16, 2018.

  1. Johannes Arcane

    Johannes
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    9,960
    Location:
    casting coach
    Imprisoned rainbow for great scales and giant / SC bless. Max prod and kill someone early with dawn guard / chariots / giants
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. Dayyālu Arcane

    Dayyālu
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    3,760
    Location:
    Apparently, Black Mesa
    It is what I tested (even if the plan was to go Dormant to get earlier on-line the Sacreds).

    Problem is overall mobility in such a big map, and reliance on Capsites. I need something more flexible for this specific game. That's why I'm eyeing Caelum and Atlantis, one is UW for added security and the other is flying nation that's not bats (and I have never played it, plus Seraphines. I have a thing for Seraphines.).
     
    ^ Top  
  3. mondblut Arcane

    mondblut
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Messages:
    16,766
    Location:
    Ingrija
    :rage:

    Disregard that, I am Lanka. You welcome to be all underwater and leave the firmament to me :obviously:
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    ^ Top  
  4. sqeecoo Arcane

    sqeecoo
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,512
    What?? I wanted to switch to rlyeh!!!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. Johannes Arcane

    Johannes
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    9,960
    Location:
    casting coach
    Dormant doesn't make much sense, Imprisoned gets you a ridiculous amount of points, just stack them minors on. All-round elemental resists and Blood Surge is the key part. Then Reinvig, +Def, and MR to top it off and also get gud lategame magic.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    ^ Top  
  6. coldcrow Prophet Patron

    coldcrow
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,317
    I came to the same conclusion. Scales builds with rainbow mages are the best for medium to large sized games. You get a useful bless and a good economy instaed of having to limit or trash your scales for a dual major bless.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Isiloon Arcane Patron

    Isiloon
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,462
    So Pangea now gets 250 gold labs, 200 gold temples and 35 nature gem castles...

    On the downside, castles outside forests cost a whopping 900 gold... so basically you can only build them in forests.

    I did a test with a awe + reinvig pretender... piece of piss expansion with centaurs - 10-15 centaurs will basically crush any indies, including heavy cav, barbarians, lizardmen etc...

    So early game is super easy to expand quickly with massive amounts of freespawn AND sacreds that crush indies... late game is okay due to blood magic / big nature summons... i think their mid game is really their biggest weakness.. any thoughts? Pangea always seems to be pretty solid in multiplayer, but I always suck with them....


    anyone have much experience with Pan? I get a lot of 'freespawn suck dont even go that way' - but getting anything else takes resources away from castles/labs/temples/pans...

    2 water nations is good because if we just had one they'd be too strong on this map :)

    Also - minotaur warriros cost 3x as much recruitment points as normal minotaurs.. in other ways they cost 1 more resource and 5 more gold :D

    the 3x recruitment cost is a obvious bug... which is interesting - there's probably a lot of weird shit like that lying around.. so old units that were average are now extremely cost effective.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    ^ Top  
  8. Johannes Arcane

    Johannes
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    9,960
    Location:
    casting coach
    Yeah, there isn't too much exceptions to this rule. It's quite boring really

    For a bigger imprisoned bless, there's Charged Bodies+Shockres, and/or stacking Defence. Whichever suits your sacreds best, though these are only so cheap if you have Frost Father available.

    I was surprised to see that the Myrmecoleon is so cheap, btw. One of the only awakes I'd consider due to that for a normal game.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Trash Player Learned

    Trash Player
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    316
    Cap gems income is 6N, which translated to 2 forts at the end of year 1 and/or Mother Oak. Dryads spamming Swarm that is quite hard to counter for a lot of nations. All steathy mage rosters allow crap tons of sheaningans.
    Their mid game is better than late for sure.
    Naked Minotaurs are undisciplined and those are par for the course low on rec points, it is not a bug. Revelers are actually undisciplined now too.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. sqeecoo Arcane

    sqeecoo
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,512
    I agree that multiple minor blesses with imprisoned that can be comboed with great scales are currently the best choice (or something like an awake W10 dragon for nations that like quickness like Pangea). This is probably my current favorite for Mictlan:

    [​IMG]
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. Isiloon Arcane Patron

    Isiloon
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,462
    I'm playing with ideas... what do you guys think of these (Pangea)

    I'm considering taking Hinnom if Dayyālu doesn't take them.. I just love my thugs and blood econ...


    Awake statue - awe and freespawn barbarians.. expansion is super fast... reinvigoration for the mages. This is probably my favourite because of the flavor.. and satisfaction of having almost ermor-sized armies of barbarians, maenads, crossbred etc.. turmoil and sloth is okay because we only really recruit commanders + sacred centaurs... dont need gold for castles, labs/temples are cheap.... I could probably change the 9 dominion into a 7 and get bigger magic scale for the gem / mage joins you events...

    Of course just as satisfying as it is always outnumbering your opponent, it's equally depressing when they wipe out 100's of units with a decent thug
    [​IMG]

    Awake Raven
    Fear centaurs ... death magic caster.. can empower him in nature and spam nature-death summons... eating carrion is good for blood hunting side-waste
    [​IMG]



    Electric centaurs with imprisoned elemental rainbow guy + good scales.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
    ^ Top  
  12. Lizzurd Cipher

    Lizzurd
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2015
    Messages:
    565
    If i may, I want to sign back as a new nation - Mekone.
     
    • incline incline x 1
    • WTF am I reading WTF am I reading x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Johannes Arcane

    Johannes
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    9,960
    Location:
    casting coach
    Always dump temp scales
     
    ^ Top  
  14. Grimwulf Arcane Patron Vatnik

    Grimwulf
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,045
    Location:
    Kodex Kommunistic Kastle
    It's all fun and games until you realize your freespawn demands a significant maintenance cost, and you can't simply stop spawning.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Despair Despair x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Infinitum Learned

    Infinitum
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Messages:
    537
    Spartan giants huh. Looks awful at a glance. Godspeed.

    Now this is just nasty. Never realized Mictlan got a 3-paths rainbow (at 90 points nonetheless, wtf?) to go with their bless bonuses. Does undying apply to both forms of the jaguars? How the fuck does one even go about countering that given the rate sacreds are spammed at? Arrows looks ineffective due to swift and the speed which they should eviscerate meatshields (also flying eagle warriors). Earth Meld I guess but the jags would be what, 18 strength? Lategame evocations? Fuck you-tier super combatants?

    I've heard this sentiment before. Decided to crunch some numbers, turns out tanking 1 temperature scale for a temperature-neutral nation costs approx. 2,6% income over a year. The costs then skyrocket to a cumulative 6,5% for the second and 10,3% for the third scale. For nations that already tip towards heat/cold, going to +0 still costs 2,6% over 12 months, but going to +2 only costs 2,2%, and tanking 2 scales to +-3 only costs 5,2%. Nations that start at +-2 can tank all the way to +-3 at an annual cost of 1,2% (!). Nations that already start at an extreme pays a premium for neutralizing their scales, conversely. Also makes it easier to plan around rivers/passes. Hmm.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • incline incline x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. Dayyālu Arcane

    Dayyālu
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
    Messages:
    3,760
    Location:
    Apparently, Black Mesa
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  17. Isiloon Arcane Patron

    Isiloon
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,462
    What maintenance cost do you speak of? maenads don't have an upkeep cost according to their unit info..

    For the expensive pans... well you get the economy booster global + transformation + blood econ
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    • Acknowledge this user's Agenda Acknowledge this user's Agenda x 1
    • hopw roewur ne hopw roewur ne x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Isiloon Arcane Patron

    Isiloon
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,462
    We could outlaw the 1 dominion pretenders to force some more diversity
     
    ^ Top  
  19. sqeecoo Arcane

    sqeecoo
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,512
    Well, so who's playing what?

    Dayyalu - Bethyros (sex starved sailors)
    Lizzurd - Mekone (homoerotic giants)
    Sqeecoo - Mictlan (inventors of potato)
    Grimwulf - Hellheim (hypoxyphiliacs)
    Isiloon - Pangea (horny forest people)
    Mondblut - Lanka (shitting on your street)
    KoolNoodle - Machaka (poster negroes)
    Coldcrow - Fomoria (tru cavemen)
    Infinitum - Marverni (vanilla faces)
    Grif - R'lyeh (hypnofish)
    Muty - Xibalba (flying goblinoid empire)

    Did I get everything right?
    Just one UW nation? Hmmmm.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    ^ Top  
  20. KoolNoodles Arcane

    KoolNoodles
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,529
    Transformation on Pans mid-late game is pretty great. Saves a TON of money, and sometimes you get some awesome results(better mage or better thug). Rarely, with the right scales, do you get a useless result, and then you save the money anyways. Forts needing to be upgraded for RP might limit the Pan spam a bit though.
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  21. Infinitum Learned

    Infinitum
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Messages:
    537
    ...What do you mean, "No Mother Oak"? Granted 1 RP per fort early game seems rough. Hmm.
     
    ^ Top  
  22. Isiloon Arcane Patron

    Isiloon
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,462
    We got one UD but several amphibious nation's who will no doubt go to war with the water squids
     
    ^ Top  
  23. Grimwulf Arcane Patron Vatnik

    Grimwulf
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,045
    Location:
    Kodex Kommunistic Kastle
    Barbarians from your Pretender.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. Isiloon Arcane Patron

    Isiloon
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,462
    lol I thought you meant the Maenads.. that would be so much worse :D

    What was your situation, it sounds like you've had a bad experience.. I can't imagine having too many barbarians unless it's end game where everyone is flying around with communioned master enslave rapist gangs
     
    ^ Top  
  25. Isiloon Arcane Patron

    Isiloon
    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2015
    Messages:
    1,462
    I submitted my pretender

    Lebowski the Wild Man

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 1
    • Salute Salute x 1
    ^ Top