In Progress DECLINE 22: Primitive Proliferation

[Johannes]

Failed to find good Hinnom build.

Imprisoned rainbow for great scales and giant / SC bless. Max prod and kill someone early with dawn guard / chariots / giants

 

[Dayyālu]

Failed to find good Hinnom build.

Imprisoned rainbow for great scales and giant / SC bless. Max prod and kill someone early with dawn guard / chariots / giants

It is what I tested (even if the plan was to go Dormant to get earlier on-line the Sacreds).

Problem is overall mobility in such a big map, and reliance on Capsites. I need something more flexible for this specific game. That's why I'm eyeing Caelum and Atlantis, one is UW for added security and the other is flying nation that's not bats (and I have never played it, plus Seraphines. I have a thing for Seraphines.).

 

[mondblut]

That's why I'm eyeing... Atlantis

And here I thought I was about to pick the only UW nation.

But what the hell, gimme Rlyeh.

Disregard that, I am Lanka. You welcome to be all underwater and leave the firmament to me

 

[sqeecoo]

What?? I wanted to switch to rlyeh!!!

 

[Johannes]

Failed to find good Hinnom build.

Imprisoned rainbow for great scales and giant / SC bless. Max prod and kill someone early with dawn guard / chariots / giants

It is what I tested (even if the plan was to go Dormant to get earlier on-line the Sacreds).

Problem is overall mobility in such a big map, and reliance on Capsites. I need something more flexible for this specific game. That's why I'm eyeing Caelum and Atlantis, one is UW for added security and the other is flying nation that's not bats (and I have never played it, plus Seraphines. I have a thing for Seraphines.).

Dormant doesn't make much sense, Imprisoned gets you a ridiculous amount of points, just stack them minors on. All-round elemental resists and Blood Surge is the key part. Then Reinvig, +Def, and MR to top it off and also get gud lategame magic.

 

[coldcrow]

I came to the same conclusion. Scales builds with rainbow mages are the best for medium to large sized games. You get a useful bless and a good economy instaed of having to limit or trash your scales for a dual major bless.

 

[Isiloon]

So Pangea now gets 250 gold labs, 200 gold temples and 35 nature gem castles...

On the downside, castles outside forests cost a whopping 900 gold... so basically you can only build them in forests.

I did a test with a awe + reinvig pretender... piece of piss expansion with centaurs - 10-15 centaurs will basically crush any indies, including heavy cav, barbarians, lizardmen etc...

So early game is super easy to expand quickly with massive amounts of freespawn AND sacreds that crush indies... late game is okay due to blood magic / big nature summons... i think their mid game is really their biggest weakness.. any thoughts? Pangea always seems to be pretty solid in multiplayer, but I always suck with them....


anyone have much experience with Pan? I get a lot of 'freespawn suck dont even go that way' - but getting anything else takes resources away from castles/labs/temples/pans...

2 water nations is good because if we just had one they'd be too strong on this map

Also - minotaur warriros cost 3x as much recruitment points as normal minotaurs.. in other ways they cost 1 more resource and 5 more gold :D

the 3x recruitment cost is a obvious bug... which is interesting - there's probably a lot of weird shit like that lying around.. so old units that were average are now extremely cost effective.

 

[Johannes]

I came to the same conclusion. Scales builds with rainbow mages are the best for medium to large sized games. You get a useful bless and a good economy instaed of having to limit or trash your scales for a dual major bless.

Yeah, there isn't too much exceptions to this rule. It's quite boring really

For a bigger imprisoned bless, there's Charged Bodies+Shockres, and/or stacking Defence. Whichever suits your sacreds best, though these are only so cheap if you have Frost Father available.

I was surprised to see that the Myrmecoleon is so cheap, btw. One of the only awakes I'd consider due to that for a normal game.

 

[Trash Player]

So Pangea now gets 250 gold labs, 200 gold temples and 35 nature gem castles...

On the downside, castles outside forests cost a whopping 900 gold... so basically you can only build them in forests.

I did a test with a awe + reinvig pretender... piece of piss expansion with centaurs - 10-15 centaurs will basically crush any indies, including heavy cav, barbarians, lizardmen etc...

So early game is super easy to expand quickly with massive amounts of freespawn AND sacreds that crush indies... late game is okay due to blood magic / big nature summons... i think their mid game is really their biggest weakness.. any thoughts? Pangea always seems to be pretty solid in multiplayer, but I always suck with them....


anyone have much experience with Pan? I get a lot of 'freespawn suck dont even go that way' - but getting anything else takes resources away from castles/labs/temples/pans...

2 water nations is good because if we just had one they'd be too strong on this map

Also - minotaur warriros cost 3x as much recruitment points as normal minotaurs.. in other ways they cost 1 more resource and 5 more gold :D

the 3x recruitment cost is a obvious bug... which is interesting - there's probably a lot of weird shit like that lying around.. so old units that were average are now extremely cost effective.

Cap gems income is 6N, which translated to 2 forts at the end of year 1 and/or Mother Oak. Dryads spamming Swarm that is quite hard to counter for a lot of nations. All steathy mage rosters allow crap tons of sheaningans.
Their mid game is better than late for sure.
Naked Minotaurs are undisciplined and those are par for the course low on rec points, it is not a bug. Revelers are actually undisciplined now too.

 

[sqeecoo]

I agree that multiple minor blesses with imprisoned that can be comboed with great scales are currently the best choice (or something like an awake W10 dragon for nations that like quickness like Pangea). This is probably my current favorite for Mictlan:

 

[Isiloon]

I'm playing with ideas... what do you guys think of these (Pangea)

I'm considering taking Hinnom if Dayyālu doesn't take them.. I just love my thugs and blood econ...


Awake statue - awe and freespawn barbarians.. expansion is super fast... reinvigoration for the mages. This is probably my favourite because of the flavor.. and satisfaction of having almost ermor-sized armies of barbarians, maenads, crossbred etc.. turmoil and sloth is okay because we only really recruit commanders + sacred centaurs... dont need gold for castles, labs/temples are cheap.... I could probably change the 9 dominion into a 7 and get bigger magic scale for the gem / mage joins you events...

Of course just as satisfying as it is always outnumbering your opponent, it's equally depressing when they wipe out 100's of units with a decent thug

Awake Raven
Fear centaurs ... death magic caster.. can empower him in nature and spam nature-death summons... eating carrion is good for blood hunting side-waste

Electric centaurs with imprisoned elemental rainbow guy + good scales.

 

[Lizzurd]

If i may, I want to sign back as a new nation - Mekone.

 

[Johannes]

stuf

Always dump temp scales

 

[Grimwulf]

satisfaction of having almost ermor-sized armies of barbarians

It's all fun and games until you realize your freespawn demands a significant maintenance cost, and you can't simply stop spawning.

 

[Infinitum]

If i may, I want to sign back as a new nation - Mekone.

Spartan giants huh. Looks awful at a glance. Godspeed.

stuff

Now this is just nasty. Never realized Mictlan got a 3-paths rainbow (at 90 points nonetheless, wtf?) to go with their bless bonuses. Does undying apply to both forms of the jaguars? How the fuck does one even go about countering that given the rate sacreds are spammed at? Arrows looks ineffective due to swift and the speed which they should eviscerate meatshields (also flying eagle warriors). Earth Meld I guess but the jags would be what, 18 strength? Lategame evocations? Fuck you-tier super combatants?

Always dump temp scales

I've heard this sentiment before. Decided to crunch some numbers, turns out tanking 1 temperature scale for a temperature-neutral nation costs approx. 2,6% income over a year. The costs then skyrocket to a cumulative 6,5% for the second and 10,3% for the third scale. For nations that already tip towards heat/cold, going to +0 still costs 2,6% over 12 months, but going to +2 only costs 2,2%, and tanking 2 scales to +-3 only costs 5,2%. Nations that start at +-2 can tank all the way to +-3 at an annual cost of 1,2% (!). Nations that already start at an extreme pays a premium for neutralizing their scales, conversely. Also makes it easier to plan around rivers/passes. Hmm.

 

[Dayyālu]

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH NEW NATION

Ok, I'm a simple guy. A fight of Spartan Godslaying Giant Hoplites VS Hinnom would be the thing of ages.

Let's try to host this.

Dayyālu
sqeecoo
Isiloon
mondblut
Muty
Grimwulf
KoolNoodles
Infinitum
Lizzurd
coldcrow
Grif

Did I forgot anyone

MAP

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ACc4SUoLEk3fkTMpHcksf9_IPgnX1lyR

GAME

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Decline22

SUBMIT
Ahh, I take Berytos. IT HAS EVERYTHING GIANTS TELKHINES AND KANGZ

 

[Isiloon]

satisfaction of having almost ermor-sized armies of barbarians

It's all fun and games until you realize your freespawn demands a significant maintenance cost, and you can't simply stop spawning.

What maintenance cost do you speak of? maenads don't have an upkeep cost according to their unit info..

For the expensive pans... well you get the economy booster global + transformation + blood econ

 

[Isiloon]

We could outlaw the 1 dominion pretenders to force some more diversity

 

[sqeecoo]

Well, so who's playing what?

Dayyalu - Bethyros (sex starved sailors)
Lizzurd - Mekone (homoerotic giants)
Sqeecoo - Mictlan (inventors of potato)
Grimwulf - Hellheim (hypoxyphiliacs)
Isiloon - Pangea (horny forest people)
Mondblut - Lanka (shitting on your street)
KoolNoodle - Machaka (poster negroes)
Coldcrow - Fomoria (tru cavemen)
Infinitum - Marverni (vanilla faces)
Grif - R'lyeh (hypnofish)
Muty - Xibalba (flying goblinoid empire)

Did I get everything right?
Just one UW nation? Hmmmm.

 

[KoolNoodles]

satisfaction of having almost ermor-sized armies of barbarians

It's all fun and games until you realize your freespawn demands a significant maintenance cost, and you can't simply stop spawning.

What maintenance cost do you speak of? maenads don't have an upkeep cost according to their unit info..

For the expensive pans... well you get the economy booster global + transformation + blood econ

Transformation on Pans mid-late game is pretty great. Saves a TON of money, and sometimes you get some awesome results(better mage or better thug). Rarely, with the right scales, do you get a useless result, and then you save the money anyways. Forts needing to be upgraded for RP might limit the Pan spam a bit though.

 

[Infinitum]

...What do you mean, "No Mother Oak"? Granted 1 RP per fort early game seems rough. Hmm.

 

[Isiloon]

We got one UD but several amphibious nation's who will no doubt go to war with the water squids

 

[Grimwulf]

What maintenance cost do you speak of? maenads don't have an upkeep cost according to their unit info..

Barbarians from your Pretender.

 

[Isiloon]

lol I thought you meant the Maenads.. that would be so much worse :D

What was your situation, it sounds like you've had a bad experience.. I can't imagine having too many barbarians unless it's end game where everyone is flying around with communioned master enslave rapist gangs

 

[Isiloon]

I submitted my pretender

Lebowski the Wild Man