Europa Universalis IV

[Fart Master]

They probably went with steam only due to the fact their games get pirated up the ass. With steam you have a much harder time updating the game if they distribute the patches through steam only.

 

[Absalom]

What is the point of Europa Universalis IV? A sequel, for sequels' sake? What refinement could they possibly add? ... Course, I don't even remember EU III.

 

[TripJack]

the point is to make money are you stupid or something

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

What is the point of Europa Universalis IV? A sequel, for sequels' sake? What refinement could they possibly add? ... Course, I don't even remember EU III.

There's a shitload you could add, and a lot of the basic mechanics were fundamentally flawed. EU3 is also behind the Clausewitz games that came after it in terms of capabilities under the hood.

 

[Malakal]

What is the point of Europa Universalis IV? A sequel, for sequels' sake? What refinement could they possibly add? ... Course, I don't even remember EU III.

After seeing what they did with EU2->EU3 transition there is a LOT that can be added and expanded upon. Just compare what we got in CK2/Vic2/HoI3 compared to games before them. Its a damn god evolution with more and more stuff added.

Of course vanilla EU3 was shit so probably it will take some time for EU4 to "mature" to a state where its better than EU3.

Finally its really obvious that EU3 has aged very much. New graphics are always a nice addon for my map painting experience.

 

[Absalom]

After seeing what they did with EU2->EU3 transition there is a LOT that can be added and expanded upon. Just compare what we got in CK2/Vic2/HoI3 compared to games before them. Its a damn god evolution with more and more stuff added.

Of course vanilla EU3 was shit so probably it will take some time for EU4 to "mature" to a state where its better than EU3.

Finally its really obvious that EU3 has aged very much. New graphics are always a nice addon for my map painting experience.

People have been saying that vanilla EU is shit since the first one. Which means people are less excited about EU IV the game than EU IV as a modding platform.

There's a shitload you could add, and a lot of the basic mechanics were fundamentally flawed. EU3 is also behind the Clausewitz games that came after it in terms of capabilities under the hood.

Well you're the modder so I guess you would know. I always get suspicious of sequels one they start numbering in the threes.

 

[Mortmal]

What is the point of Europa Universalis IV? A sequel, for sequels' sake? What refinement could they possibly add? ... Course, I don't even remember EU III.

A prettier EU3 with clausewitz engine, march of the eagle combat system, less ping pong, and coalitions. Thats already huge improvements. Hopefully they will add the improvments from the other games like the crisis from victoria 2. It will probably be bug ridden , unplayable at release but glorious with all its extensions and dlc at discounted price as usual. I am really awaiting this one, march of eagle is really too short and just an appetizer.

 

[Misconnected]

Maybe they could do some EU:Rome-like government stuff.

 

[PorkaMorka]

The problem is that they've never managed to get the AI countries to routinely achieve their historical expansions. Consequently, the game tends to play poorly as a sort of domino effect of this.

If Muscowy never forms Russia there is a power vacuum in the east. If the Ottomans snake to the East fighting hordes instead of attacking Europe there is less pressure on Austria, so it is free to harass Europe instead of defending it.

Etc.

Very difficult game to balance and I fear that it will take a few steps backward.

 

[Fart Master]

Hopefully the gameplay will make up for it. (not that it would take much since EU3 is total dogshit when it comes to gameplay.)

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

EU should absolutely never strive for simulationism.

 

[Destroid]

The problem is that they've never managed to get the AI countries to routinely achieve their historical expansions. Consequently, the game tends to play poorly as a sort of domino effect of this.

If Muscowy never forms Russia there is a power vacuum in the east. If the Ottomans snake to the East fighting hordes instead of attacking Europe there is less pressure on Austria, so it is free to harass Europe instead of defending it.

Etc.

Very difficult game to balance and I fear that it will take a few steps backward.

This is why Magna Mundi introduced the 'lucky nations' bonuses, but they don't seem to be popular.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

EU takes place over a very, very long period of time, and that's its main strength: The fact it, like CK2, allows for history to be fucked in the ass throughoutly. Simply put, simulationist elements are absolutely retarded when you have a game with so many potential variables introduced. Enforcing historical accuracy in a sandbox of that size is just plain dumb, as aptly demonstrated by Ubikebab.

 

[Hellraiser]

I'm hoping colonization is done better than in vanilla EU3 or MMU. The events in MMU where the natives may destroy your colony were nice, but overall that could have used some improvement. Also the requirements for sending out explorers and conquistators in MMU were retarded. Sure, it shouldn't be as easy as take one national idea go colonize half of kwanzania, but MMU just went into the other extreme. Without having those 5 NIs devoted to colonization/exploration all you could do was pray you get an event where you get the chance to buy an explorer (the price of which of course scaled to your level, which meant it was too expensive in most cases). Who probably would die due to random factors way before he would find anything worth colonizing.

It's an important aspect of the time period and it would be a shame to see it neglected.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Anything even remotely related to the sea was utterly retarded in MMU anyway, like navies that sunk instantly without the minimum number of naval ideas.

 

[Hellraiser]

Not to mention the infamous potato-raiding pirates running rampant around shitty poor backwater ports.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Yep, say what you want about the piracy shit in base EU3, at least you could ensure it didn't matter. The one in MMU was just idiotic.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

EU takes place over a very, very long period of time, and that's its main strength: The fact it, like CK2, allows for history to be fucked in the ass throughoutly. Simply put, simulationist elements are absolutely retarded when you have a game with so many potential variables introduced. Enforcing historical accuracy in a sandbox of that size is just plain dumb, as aptly demonstrated by Ubikebab.

Agreed, this is why I like EU.

I really really HATE simulationist elements. There's a lot of shit in our history that's so unlikely that realistically, all it would take is some minor change (like, say, the player taking some insignificant country and doing some stuff) and the butterflies fly high and then EVERYTHING changes. Spanish conquest of Mexico and Inca/Tawantisuyo empire is a good example: It was essentially a bunch of guys lead by some charismatic and clever fillibuster against a entire empire, all with enough jewgold to fund a armed expedition based on dreams of jewgold, nobility titles and sexy brown women. The governor of Cuba even tried to stop Cortez. If someone in a no-Cortez conquest of Mexico universe wrote such a story it would be considered more ASB than the Draka Domination books.

I'm hoping colonization is done better than in vanilla EU3 or MMU. The events in MMU where the natives may destroy your colony were nice, but overall that could have used some improvement. Also the requirements for sending out explorers and conquistators in MMU were retarded. Sure, it shouldn't be as easy as take one national idea go colonize half of kwanzania, but MMU just went into the other extreme. Without having those 5 NIs devoted to colonization/exploration all you could do was pray you get an event where you get the chance to buy an explorer (the price of which of course scaled to your level, which meant it was too expensive in most cases). Who probably would die due to random factors way before he would find anything worth colonizing.

It's an important aspect of the time period and it would be a shame to see it neglected.

From what I saw, its going to be slightly better, but not much. The EUIII system of colonization is immensely ridiculous gobshite: You send some guys, then when these guys manage to reach a thousand dudes in a city, all natives around harmoniously join your city and MAGICALLY perceive the superiority of your civilization and religion, converting to your culture and religion forthwith. All these Jesuits who went to America probably stayed around playing cards or something.

 

[PorkaMorka]

EU takes place over a very, very long period of time, and that's its main strength: The fact it, like CK2, allows for history to be fucked in the ass throughoutly. Simply put, simulationist elements are absolutely retarded when you have a game with so many potential variables introduced. Enforcing historical accuracy in a sandbox of that size is just plain dumb, as aptly demonstrated by Ubikebab.

Russia and the Ottomans get a lot of cores and so forth that give them the potential to be much stronger than some random blobs occupying the same territory, stuck with wrong culture wrong religion non-core provinces. If they manage to reach their historical expansions they will be good challenges for the player in the late game, when he has also built up a powerful country. If those regions remain divided between several weak blobs, the player will have fewer challenges in the late game. Usually in unmodded Paradox games there are few challenges, so you play for a while then quit.

EU 3 seems to be in a bad spot, between too much historical determinism and too little determinism. Historical determinism can definitely work when it is done well, see AGCEEP for EU 2. Alternatively, you could provide some mechanism for other countries to become as powerful as Russia did. But the way they do it now, the whole east tends to be weak, divided and unimportant, so you have less rivals to deal with. Lame.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

They seem to be taking steps to correcting that, with added bonuses to Ottomans, Austria, Russia, Sweden and other great and secondary powers of each time period. Not enough to put it on HOI3 rails mind you, but just enough to make sure that you don't have Byzantium and Epirus duking it out in the Balkans and Anatolia before collapsing from WE-fueled albanian and karamanid nationalist rebels.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

EU takes place over a very, very long period of time, and that's its main strength: The fact it, like CK2, allows for history to be fucked in the ass throughoutly. Simply put, simulationist elements are absolutely retarded when you have a game with so many potential variables introduced. Enforcing historical accuracy in a sandbox of that size is just plain dumb, as aptly demonstrated by Ubikebab.

Russia and the Ottomans get a lot of cores and so forth that give them the potential to be much stronger than some random blobs occupying the same territory, stuck with wrong culture wrong religion non-core provinces. If they manage to reach their historical expansions they will be good challenges for the player in the late game, when he has also built up a powerful country. If those regions remain divided between several weak blobs, the player will have fewer challenges in the late game. Usually in unmodded Paradox games there are few challenges, so you play for a while then quit.

Ubikebab wans't entirely unjustified in the early game because in that timeframe the Ottoman Empire reached its apex, at one point (unsure if it was in the end-1400s or early 1500) the Ottoman Empire was as rich as France and Spain put together. They were the big steamroller of the period, the Big Green Blog that conquered wherever it saw. They took the Second Rome and decided it would be awesome if they got the entire set and took the first one too. It took Lepanto and other failures to take out their ridiculous expansion.

Russia makes sense, because there was a entire religious-political idea of uniting all slavs to fight the Tartar hordes. That said, in a "No Mongols" ATL scenario we might have seen a balkanized Russia-Ukraine full of Rurikids or even a Turkish Russia instead.
Don't forget ERE gets similar cores, too, so if by some miracle the Ottomans fall to the ERE, they can easily turn their own clay into something respectable. This often happens in 1399 starts, usually because Timurids rape the Ottomans from the behind and all the other Turks and Greek remants decide they want in on the gangrape. I think I saw a ERE revival twice and once a Ak Koynilu empire.

 

[Space Satan]

From EU3 experience, Muscovy is one of the hardest starts ever. Shitload of enemies from all sides, shitty diplomacy, as you are orthodox, and even other orthodox ruler hate you, shitty resources, shitty tech group, shitty income, shitty trade and whole load of other crap you have to deal with.

 

[Sranchammer]

Spanish conquest of Mexico and Inca/Tawantisuyo empire is a good example: It was essentially a bunch of guys lead by some charismatic and clever fillibuster against a entire empire, all with enough jewgold to fund a armed expedition based on dreams of jewgold, nobility titles and sexy brown women. The governor of Cuba even tried to stop Cortez.

 

[thesoup]

From EU3 experience, Muscovy is one of the hardest starts ever. Shitload of enemies from all sides, shitty diplomacy, as you are orthodox, and even other orthodox ruler hate you, shitty resources, shitty tech group, shitty income, shitty trade and whole load of other crap you have to deal with.

Not really. At least it wasn't for me. I managed to subjugate novgorod, ryazan and pskov fairly quickly then I ganged up on gh and colonized all the way to vladivostok before the mid 16th century.

 

[pan]

Muscovy? Pshh... when I was still new to the game, I played as one of those single province countries bordering Muscovy (Ryazen I think) and was fighting France in Western Europe by, like, mid 1500's or something.