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Incline Revisiting Old Games (Again)

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Falksi, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    So we all obviously like the era of incline, but I thought I'd start a thread to keep track of our journey through revisting the "classics" of old.

    It's been a while since I've played a lot of them now. I've purposely indulged in more modern games for a year or two so I can return to these fresh & give an honest opinion.

    Some I've played before, others I haven't, so we'll see how we go.

    Feel free to chuck in your revistits and any bitching to go with it etc.

    First up ACTRAISER 2 - SNES

    [​IMG]

    As a big fan of Actraiser I was looking forward to this. I've played it the odd time on emulator here & there over the years, but never really sat down to give it a proper full playthrough. 30 min later, I can see why.

    It's shit. It's not unplayable shit by any means, but it's a real fucking slog. The main dude moves like he's wearing iron boots, you get a shield but it's as useful as a chocolate fireguard, and your multi-directional attacks feel limp.

    The enemy patterns are fairly random & carry that old-era trait of coming at you from nowhere without warning and being unavoidable, the bosses are often a case of sacrificing health at the right time, and overall it's just a tough game to love.

    On the plus side it looks fairly decent, and retains the old sounds FX used in the original Actraiser, which were awesome.

    A bit gutted tbh, was hoping for a lot more. No surprise that the UBIsoft logo appears on loading. A sign of things to come.

    :1/5:
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  2. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    Fallout 2 - PC

    [​IMG]

    So after my failed Actraiser 2 attempt I decided to be brave and give Fallout 2 another try. I missed it first time around, so gave it a blast around 3 years ago, but had several other games on the go and didn't get caught up in it, so a return was due.

    It's shit. I'm sorry, I tried, I really did, but it's just way to dated to be able to enjoy now if you haven't played it before. The opening tutorial level is bad, I mean there's nowt to do and it's a stage for purely showcasing the combat, which is shit, but after that? It's still shit.

    Is there a cracking RPG/story/etc. in there if you persist long enough? Well there must be for all the love it gets, but who'd want to slog through all the crap to get to it when Fallout 3 & NV do it far better?

    I think I played around 3 hours, and the damn combat just weighed the whole thing down so much. Nothing really grabbed me RPG wise either, it felt like it had been done far better since. Chosen one? Here we go again, Oblivion & Skyrim gets slated for such cliched dross, but that's where FO2 starts you.

    Like I say, I tried chaps, I really did, but I think this is just way to flawed for anyone playing it now to be able to enjoy.

    :1/5:
     
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  3. Okagron Erudite

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    Fallout 3 is better than 2 in what? Story? Nope, a plot hole ridden mess that makes absolute no sense. Combat? Nope. RPG elements? Aahahaha, not in a million years. Quests? Nope. Exploration? Nope, it's an exercise in pointlessness where you basically go through a theme park unopposed with no challenge. Locations? Nope, locations in Fallout 3 seem to be their own contained bubbles where two locations can be right next to each other, but neither ackowledges the existence of each other. Location placement also doesn't make on lick of sense most of the time.

    It's hilarious you claim that the combat of Fallout 2 is shit and then play Fallout 3. Which has probably the worst set of FPS mechanics ever put in a videogame.
    This is also an huge crock of bullshit because i played it only some years ago. It did take some time to get used to it, but not for very long. After that it was smooth sailing.
     
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  4. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    I found it just a lot easier to get into, a lot more interesting & absorbing from the off, and way more stimulating overall.

    Like I say, I'm sure there's some real quality in FO2 if you dig deep enough. But playing it for the first time nowadys there's just too much digging required.

    When did it hook you?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
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  5. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    Full Throttle - Remaster

    [​IMG]

    So yes it's the remastered version, but it's of an old game I've never once tried before, so 3rd times the charm hopefully? Well as someone who likes adventure games, the Lucasarts logo always instills a bit of excitement when booting such games up, so does the game itself live up to the promise?

    Nah, it's shit. I mean, it's a perfectly serviceable adventure, but it's just boring as fuck. Everything is played straight laced as fuck, conversations are genuine conversations, objectives are genuine objectives. There's no twist, no genius, no real surprise impact. It's just a bland case of doing things with nowt really spicy to it. There is humour there, but it's a bit lame and sparse tbh. Puzzles are miss as much as they are hit, and the combat? The less said the better.

    It actually really makes me realize just how much these types of game rely on good interaction and/or humour. It was noticeable that when I spoke to the barman, the female mechanic & the reporter I'd not chuckled once or formed any opinion of any of them. I couldn't even try to fuck the females. It all felt fucking pointless really.

    Music, voice acting, visuals and presentation overall are all very cool though. But it's another one not worth my time.

    :1/5:
     
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  6. Unreal Learned

    Unreal
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    The Codex thread ‘Revisiting Old Games (Again)’

    it's shit

    :1/5:
     
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  7. Tweed Learned

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    The chosen one bit is a jab at the cliche, nobody outside of Arroyo gives a fuck, even one of the death messages mocks your title. If you can't figure out the tactical combat of Fallout and find 3 to be superior maybe RPGs just ain't for you? Also, what RPG elements are you referring to that "other games have done better"? Fallout 3 is easy to get into because it's stupidly simplistic, in fact the entire game is just stupid.
     
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  8. Maggot Prophet Patron

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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    Why are you typing with an accent like a faggot?
     
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  9. smaug Arcane Patron

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    I came here to see RPGs from the 80’s.

    Was disappointed.

    :0/5:
     
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  10. Alexios Scholar

    Alexios
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    If you prefer Fallout 3 combat I can only assume you mean you prefer VATS, which is also in Fallout 2. If you're aware of this and still prefer 3's combat I can only assume it's because enemies are easier to hit in 3.
     
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  11. Lemming42 Arcane

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    I think I asked you about what you consider dated about Fallout 1/2 in the unpopular opinions thread like a week or so ago. Now that you've played Fallout 2 again, was there anything specific interface-wise that repelled you?

    Also,

    That's essentially a joke, it sets up a bunch of scenes with characters across the wasteland who will basically just mock, patronise, scam or insult you when you boldly announce yourself to be The Chosen One. That's in combination with the fact nobody seems to have heard of (or care about) Arroyo, and your quest isn't really that important to anyone outside Arroyo (until the final act, anyway). No one's interested in helping you find a GECK, and most people don't even know what it is you're asking for if you try to question them. I always took it to be actively parodying chosen one plots. Try introducing yourself as The Chosen One of Arroyo to the first people you meet in Klamath and see what happens. EDIT: Just noticed this was already pointed out a few posts above

    To enjoy Fallout 2 to the max, remember that it doesn't really want you to take it seriously at any point. Even the more interesting and and well-written areas like the NCR and New Reno are meant to be jokes to some extent.
     
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  12. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    Regards FO2 I'll give it one last go in a week or two to see if I can finally plough through the "meh" stuff to get to the meat of the game.

    Any tips from you chaps as to how to get the most out of it? When does it start to get interesting?

    Fallout 3 was just more interesting from the get-go. Like I say, I'm sure there's a good RPG in there, but at what point do I get to it? When does it actually start to pick up?

    The interface was fine enough, it was just the lack of anything really interesting in the first few hours which bored me.

    VATS combat as a system, doesn't do much for me but - as popamoley as it is - it's far more fun watching slow mo's of enemies heads & limbs explode than it is watching it in FO2 (I didn't take the Bloody Mess perk btw if that makes a difference)
     
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  13. Tweed Learned

    Tweed
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    Because Fallout 3 loads everything of interest into the start of the game and then throws it out the window because they expect players to be enthralled by an open world that's full of nothing.

    With F2 it depends on how far you got and what you consider boring to good. The beginning can be a bit slow, especially if you built yourself to use firearms. Combat picks up once you ditch the pipe rifle for an actual pistol or a revolver and only gets better from there, if you didn't save up the get Sulik then you're hurting yourself. If you feel like trying to get cash in a semi legit fashion you can always save and load a million times playing craps in The Den, but I don't recommend that unless you actually tagged gambling as a skill. If you reached Modoc you should already be getting a handle on things or else you're doing it wrong. There's also several exploits you can use to cheese the game, but that turns the game into a curbstomp.

    I can't force you to be interested in the story, Fallout 1/2 hand you an objective and you get involved in something much bigger as you go along. Fallout 3 like most Bethesda games puts you as the center of the universe, but there's nothing interesting going on.
     
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  14. Lemming42 Arcane

    Lemming42
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    Like Tweed said, the start of the game punishes you for specialising in firearms skills, only to reward you greatly a little later on. Unless you know how to use unarmed combat or the spear, you're best staying out of combat until you manage to get a gun (which is like 30 - 60 minutes into the game at most). Get Sulik because he'll go apeshit with a sledgehammer and knock people down allowing you to shoot them in the head or eyes, and grab any other companions you find in the first couple of towns, and you'll be fine from that point onwards (until the Enclave Patrol encounters which are just straight-up bullshit, but easy enough to avoid).

    If you want some walkthrough-y advice (which I don't recommend, it'd be more fun to find it yourself), click this spoiler:
    Show Spoiler
    Break into Vic's shed at Klamath to get his pipe rifle. It's a complete piece of shit with very low damage, but it's better than the spear and your character (if a firearms person) will be able to make use of it. At the very least, you can sell it for something better.

    Some of the quests in Klamath aren't really beginner quests, so you don't have to try and clear out the rats, help Torr defend the Brahmin, or go to the golden gecko caves yet. You'd be better off returning when you have a gun and maybe a companion or two.

    See if you can get enough money to recruit Sulik in Klamath.

    When you go to The Den, look along the houses on the left side of the first map. You can find a woman called Lara who'll give you a shitton of money for some very easy non-combat jobs. After that, she'll ask you to join their raid on an enemy gang - do so and you can loot the corpses for Desert Eagles. Barring any terrible rolls, Lara's gang will win the raid with minimal help from your character.

    Alternatively (or additionally), trade with the two vendors on the first map of The Den. They carry revolvers, which are an extremely good starting weapon and will let you potentially one-hit-kill some enemies if you score a critical headshot. You can trade for the revolvers or just kill the vendors and take their entire stock from their corpses. I think you might be able to steal them too if your steal skill is up to it, but I can't remember.
     
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  15. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    Coming to the Codex, starting a thread about old games and then shitting all over the classics is grade A trolling, I'll give you that.
     
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  16. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    I get where you're coming from, but the problem lies not in the combat system, but in the poor structure of the game's opening steps. The tutorial is pants, but that's just the start of things. Even with a combat-heavy character the odds will be against you until you have full access to Vault City (Note: Not the same as reaching Vault City). Once there things start to even out a little as you can get your hands on decent gear and are high enough level to engage in some serious fights. This is roughly about one-third into the game BTW.

    There are many ways to make the early game shorter or more painless, and the Lemming gave a few specific pointers, but my advice is more general: Things won't start to get better until Vault City is mostly cleared, and until then you're just gonna have to suck it down for a bit. Stay out of the Gecko caves in Klamath unless you're really good with guns (and have ammo to spare), decent melee/unarmed will see you through the rat dungeon, and only fight the haunting spirit in the canyon if you know how to abuse the combat system. In The Den you do not even think about taking down Metzger and his gang until you're close to Level 10 and packing good firepower, and in Modoc you don't rush into any (combat) situation and you leave the chicken alone. Besides these troublespots most places in the opening areas rely more upon non-combat skills, so it might be a good idea to play the smart-ass, smooth-talking weakling to gain better gear and money, and then sink skillpoints into combat skills once you have the guns to show for it.

    Ironically one of the fastest and easiest ways to get better gear and money is to find a favorable random encounter close to Vault City where two human factions are trying to kill each other. The key is not to join into the fight yourself - stay out of it and let them duke it out (you may need to tamper with Sulik's settings first as his factory settings of 'BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!' may ruin this plan). Eventually one side will win and you can loot their corpses without the other side attacking you, as the combat started with them being non-hostile to you. But you'll have to loot them while in combat - if you end combat the game will check to see if the surviving faction is hostile to you, and if so it will re-engage combat where they try to kill you now. Odds are good that's a fight you're not ready for.

    Oh, and the game picks up considerably once you get the car up and running - most of the first part of the game revolves around this goal.
     
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  17. Falksi Arcane

    Falksi
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    See that's the type of post worth something :) Heck of a difference between clearing Vault City, and getting to or going through Vailt City (folk usually say getting to vault city is when it gets good)

    Thanks for that. I will try one last time in a week or two.
     
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  18. Beastro Arcane

    Beastro
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    :hmmm:

    The opening I will admit is annoying, especially if you are holding off for guns, which are near nonexistent and you're short on cash and ammo. After the Rat Den it picks up because you finally get a good enough supply of ammo to really start using em.
     
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  19. thesecret1 Educated

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    There were only two things I minded about FO2. First and the most important one was cut content. Cut content absolutely everywhere. I mean even the very companion you get, Sulik, has his questline cut. I find playing with a content restoration mod to be basically mandatory. Second one were the pop culture refferences, which were annoying rather than amusing. Other than those two issues, FO2 was a great RPG, though, one of the best out there.
     
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  20. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
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    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Not defending the game, just pointing out the obvious here: Making a cRPG on that scale requires immense amount of time, yet Interplay asked that it be done in a year after seeing how well Fallout 1 did.

    On the coding side, the bugs plaguing the game upon release were legendary, and the line of official patches only managed to address the biggest ones. Fortunately both the bugs (and cut content) have been dealt with properly via unofficial patches.

    On the writing side the feat was no less monumental, and I can imagine that pop culture references were used as placeholders to fill up quests and dialogue, and then the devs simply had no time to replace them with something better. I've mentioned this before, but as a result of that Fallout 2 held the dubious title of "Game with the Most Pop Culture References" (with over 400 of them documented) for 12.5 years, or until Dungeons of Dredmor was released. I don't think anyone has the autism required to document all the pop culture references in that one.
     
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  21. Tigranes Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Never mind what he says about FO2, he found the opening of Fallout 3 interesting?

    Like, hey there buddy you're in high school and there's a birthday party Fallout 3 opening?

    :shredder:
     
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  22. Okagron Erudite

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    Still can't believe when i hear or read people claiming the intro of Fallout 3 is "great" or even worse like "it's one of the best intros to any RPG". It's a 30 minutes long unskippable cutscene where you are forced into a specific background for your OWN CREATED character. The motherfuckers at Bethesda give the player charater creation, meaning you are supposed to give it a lot of its backstory, but then the majority of the backstory is decided by devs. You can't roleplay as anyone else outside of what's setup in the intro, it would contradict what happens there. It's also the worst of both worlds, your character is too defined for you to give it an extensive backstory, but also not defined enough to be its own character.

    Then there's the reason why your daddy leaves the vault is completely pointless. He claims the wasteland needs clean water but when you get to the wasteland, hardly anyone gives a shit. Everyone seem to be surviving just fine, so they need clean water so urgently now why? I mean, they should try to get clean water, but this should have happened many, many years ago, not 200 years after the bombs fell.

    So the intro fails at the basic level of a game with character creation, but also fails completely from a story standpoint.
     
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  23. AlexxPT Barely Literate

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    It's been like that all the time.
     
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  24. Falksi Arcane

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    Fallout 3's intro is awesome.

    Coming kicking and screaming into the world straight out the vagina, blood and all, & to the dulcet tones of Liam Neeson was bang on.

    I've always been a fan of humble begining starts in games anyway. A lot of my fave 16-bit RPGs are those where you start in the village as a nobody and graduate to world saver. It's cliched but I still like it. FO3 does that really well.
     
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  25. Lemming42 Arcane

    Lemming42
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    FO3's intro is decent structurally - multiple ways to deal with Butch absolutely owning you at your party, which people later comment on and react to in the next timeskip, for example. And the escape itself encourages you to play around with stealth or combat to find which you prefer, and there's many ways to deal with the Overseer situation - if you refuse to take the pistol Amata offers you, she keeps it herself and shoots the guard interrogating her. Otherwise, you can just sneak past and abandon her or rush in and save her. After that, you can threaten the Overseer to get his password, kill him and take it, or simply ignore him and hack his computer yourself.

    There's also a pretty cool idea in that the heavily signposted diplomatic solution - to surrender to the Overseer and agree to talk it out - actually just gets you tricked and attacked. It's a rare example of the game lying to you and subverting the player's wishes, something FO3 does a couple of times (and even does genuinely well in Tenpenny Tower).

    So there's a quality structure there, which beats the absolute shit out of the Temple of Trials. The only problem is the fucking writing itself - you're forced to listen to half an hour of the most inane dialogue ever put to a computer screen, and the circumstances surrounding your dramatic escape make no sense - nobody enters or leaves the vault except for 19 years ago when your father, mother and baby-you all entered without anyone apparently noticing or caring. Because Dad has now left, the guards must run around executing all civilians in the vault. Additionally, radroaches have broken in for absolutely no reason, and are slaughtering everyone in sight. The encounter with the Overseer itself sucks ass, he talks like a shitty Disney villain and the line he says after you threaten him is one of the all-time worst in gaming history (you threaten to kill Amata and he's like "HMM I ADMIRE YOUR PATERNAL INSTINCTS. HERE'S MY OFFICE KEY, GOODBYE"). Like with 90% of Fallout 3, decent quest structure (the best post-Daggerfall Bethesda has ever done IMO) is completely undermined by fucking atrocious writing.
     
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