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RPG gameplay: Guilds, twinking and level requirements

Jason Liang

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
8,353
Location
Crait
I've been playing a lot of smaller online rpgs recently and thinking about the online rpg that I want to make someday. One issue that I've been thinking about for the past day is twinking. This of course is an issue historically traced back to the beginnings of computer online roleplaying, Diablo 2.

I've been playing a vampire combat rpg called Chronicles of Blood and a few days ago started a second character with a new account. While CoB restricts both what types of things players can trade to eachother and also has strict level requirements for equipment, I still realized that my new character, with help from my more advanced character (or help from a guildmate) could achieve a lot more than a new naked character. For example, it took my first character almost 20 levels to grind for a Raven Familiar servant (an universally indispensible servant) but the game allows me to trade extra Raven Familiar Words of Command to my new character so my new character doesn't need to grind Dark Forest needlessly for those. Another example is my new character can travel to Dark Oblivion as soon as he's level 11 and craft a pair of Path of Madness boots with Dream Dust from my old character, which is another huge advantage. In fact its such a huge advantage that clearly the best way to play this game is to create at least 2 characters - which is probably not the intention of the game developer.

So the issue here is this - even with severe restrictions on trading and item level requirements, gifting/ guilds can still give new characters an enormous, arguably unfair advantage.

On the one hand, twinking can get way out of hand and ruin the intended experience of an online rpg (see Diablo 2). On the other hand, prohibiting trading and level requirements seem like extremely artificial, clunky and heavy handed ways to enforce balance.

Any thoughts or solutions?
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
Character-centric progression as opposed to gear-centric progression. This probably introduces problems of its own.
 

Helton

Arcane
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
6,789
Location
Starbase Delta
I don't think twinking is a problem, it is an asset. Twinking characters in Anarchy Online was more than half the fun for me. With a small amount of thought you can geometrically expand the content available to your playerbase. If everyone rushes to level cap then that's it, whatever diversity of builds, whatever content you have available for max level characters, that's it. So you rapidly need to shit out new content, raise level caps, to keep people happy.

If you incorporate twinking into the design, and give players incentive to stay at various levels, then you multiply the number of relevant zones, relevant builds, etc. Making the best level 7 character for a particular zone is a puzzle players can spend time on and compete over, just like making the best level cap character for a particular zone.

The general perception of designers to twinking reaks to me. So players are making their own goals and breathing life into "old" content? Well of course that should be suppressed and shamed! They should only play exactly as we instruct them!

Rather you should learn what motivates twinking, why players find it rewarding and doubling down on those incentives so it becomes a game unto itself.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,726
Leave gear sharing alone. I can grind for only one onigoroshi in each new league.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
I've been playing a lot of smaller online rpgs recently and thinking about the online rpg that I want to make someday. One issue that I've been thinking about for the past day is twinking. This of course is an issue historically traced back to the beginnings of computer online roleplaying, Diablo 2.
Noob! You think this began in Diablo II? Not even Diablo 1? Fuck no. We were doing this shit back in MUDs, where we'd take high-end gear and pass it to newbies and have them GO AND KILL GRUESOMELY IN OUR NAMES.

So the issue here is this - even with severe restrictions on trading and item level requirements, gifting/ guilds can still give new characters an enormous, arguably unfair advantage.
You say "unfair advantage", I say "whiny scrub". If you wanted to play a single player game with no other players, you should have stuck to single player RPGs. Multiplayer is a core system of an MMO and failing to use it and then whining about people who do is just being a scrub. Git gud, scrub.

The fact of the matter is: Games are meant to be gamed. It is literally in the name of the thing.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,629
Jason Liang

The Final Fantasy MMOs have a job system which allows you to carry all of the classes you level up on a single character. Higher level income allows for more ideal equipment while levelling subsequent classes, but is still restricted by level.

Mapping all progress to a single character works if there aren't any artificial restrictions like a limited number of professions.
 

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