Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

[toro]

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

That's so cool with Genchiro head!

BTW: Wouldn't "The Children of Rejuvenating Water" be a great name for a killer metal song?

 

[Villagkouras]

That's so cool with Genchiro head!

BTW: Wouldn't "The Children of Rejuvenating Water" be a great name for a killer metal song?

Only for EuroPower Metal Bands.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

 

[Black Angel]

Ouch.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

I'm replaying this now and god damn, I forgot how incredible this game is. The combat is basically my idea of a perfect sword fighting game. Before Sekiro, the only other games that came close were mount and blade, metal gear revengeance, and those old star wars jedi academy games.. but this is so many leagues ahead of even those it's insane.

I seriously can't believe that no other game has figured out how to create intense sword combat focused on standing right in your opponent's face and having a back and fourth parry slugfest. Fighting sword bosses in particular in this game is probably one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had.

Before Sekiro, we had Souls games for challenging melee combat which, at the time, was great, but looking back it's really hard to imagine taking them seriously with all the stupid roll spam and just whacking bosses and running away like they're a fucking swinging pinata for 15 minutes. Sekiro feels like I'm actually in a sword fight while souls games feel like I'm rolling around with a water noodle slapping a giant rock by comparison. I still think Souls games are among the best games ever made but it just shows how far ahead Sekiro is with its combat.

The sad thing is that this game makes me want to get back into and love video games, and try out all sorts of single player games that I've avoided for the last 10 years, but I absolutely know that I'll be disappointed with every one of them after Sekiro.

Anyway I know this game didn't seem to really get great reception, which is awful, but I hope FromSoft continues with this series or at least carries forth combat principles from this into their future games. I'd hate for them to regress back to roll spam or boring shield block turtling. Well there's my review, definitely the best game ever made in its genre, if not the greatest game of all time.

Also P.S: spiderman web slinging is plain fun that shit better never go away!

 

[Sentinel]

Yep. Sekiro and Nioh have the best third person combat ever conceived. Sekiro's in particular feels so fucking good it's like a drug when you're in a sword dance with a boss and enter that rhythm.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Yep. Sekiro and Nioh have the best third person combat ever conceived. Sekiro's in particular feels so fucking good it's like a drug when you're in a sword dance with a boss and enter that rhythm.

ooo I somehow missed Nioh, I'll need to give it a shot!

 

[Multidirectional]

I've finished it 4 times within a period of one year. That's not something that happens to me with any new games anymore. I really hope there's another game like this, and hopefully with a more fine-tuned camera. Or just less encounters in tight spaces where it can fuck you over most.

 

[cvv]

Before Sekiro, we had Souls games for challenging melee combat which, at the time, was great, but looking back it's really hard to imagine taking them seriously with all the stupid roll spam and just whacking bosses and running away like they're a fucking swinging pinata for 15 minutes.

Ok Sekiro is amazing, easily my GOTY, but let's not get carried away here. DS with its stamina management and non-humanoid bosses is a completely different gaming experience. It's just wrong to say one is better than the other. I absolutely love the Sekiro combat but in general I wouldn't want most aRPGs to be like this. I do prefer stamina management and much wider enemy variety. IIRC there are two non-humanoid bosses in Sekiro and both completely suck balls precisely because the combat is too narrow and can't handle too much variety.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Before Sekiro, we had Souls games for challenging melee combat which, at the time, was great, but looking back it's really hard to imagine taking them seriously with all the stupid roll spam and just whacking bosses and running away like they're a fucking swinging pinata for 15 minutes.

Ok Sekiro is amazing, easily my GOTY, but let's not get carried away here. DS with its with stamina management and non-humanoid bosses is a completely different gaming experience. It's just wrong to say one is better than the other. I absolutely love the Sekiro combat but in general I wouldn't want most aRPGs to be like this. I do prefer stamina management and much wider enemy variety. IIRC there are two-humanoid bosses in Sekiro and both completely suck balls precisely because the combat is too narrow and can't handle too much variety.

Yeah I've always played Souls games with dex based 2H katana builds so I guess I'm just comparing Sekiro to that specific playstyle in souls, which probably isn't very fair since sekiro was built from the ground up for that playstyle. You can't parry or block with 2h weapons in souls games, so all fights are basically just swing->roll->roll->roll->swing etc... and stamina isn't a worry with that kind of build. 2H dex weapons in souls games always seem to do pretty bad damage, taking a ton of hits to kill a boss, especially when compared to the STR based 2h weapons. I guess Sekiro is just more the style of fantasy that I'm after. I appreciate that souls has a ton of playstyle options but I hope in future games they carry over principles from sekiro at least for dex builds.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Yep. Sekiro and Nioh have the best third person combat ever conceived. Sekiro's in particular feels so fucking good it's like a drug when you're in a sword dance with a boss and enter that rhythm.

I played through Sekiro 4 times. It's a great game, but playing through it multiple times, you realize how tiny its world is compared to Souls. I wish there was more to do. All of my subsequent playthroughs were mostly rushing past enemies just to get to the bosses, which are the best part of the game.

 

[Wunderbar]

Let's not get carried away.
Sekiro swordfighting feels great, but mechanically it's just a rhythm clicker where you have to memorize every animation by heart or get killed in three hits.

 

[Sentinel]

Great combat systems don't need to be complex. Sekiro's combat has all the complexity it needs to exemplarily achieve its goal of fast paced sword fighting. Hard hitting bosses with multiple phases guarantees the players stay on their toes.

 

[cvv]

Btw while we're at this topic, I'm now playing Surge 2 and this game is a fantastic compromise for those who prefer parrying to the Souls-esque roll spam but also like stamina management and a wider enemy and weapon variety.

You can slide-jump Nioh style and you have i-frames doing it but the stamina cost is kindda high so you can't just spam the dodge button like a retard, like you can in DS3. It's mostly an "oh shit" button. Most bosses are very difficult, or even straight-up impossible, to beat without parrying, which is great because parrying in Surge 2 is directional - you hold block and then you flip your right stick in the direction of the coming attack. It's by far the most fun and satisfying parry system I've ever played. The entire game is basically worth it just because of this.

 

[Multidirectional]

I didn't even know about existence of "The Surge" games, now I feel like trying it out. Wondering if I should start with first one.

 

[cvv]

I didn't even know about existence of "The Surge" games, now I feel like trying it out. Wondering if I should start with first one.

It's hard to recommend since liking/disliking games is so completely subjective but the consensus is Surge 2 is a straight up improvement in level design and combat (there is no parrying in S1). I personally didn't like S1 at all while I love S2. Still, there are people who prefer the first game but I can't fathom why (maybe for the challenge, S1 is p. hardcore while S2 is more forgiving).

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance has a pretty decent parry system. It requires you to press two buttons + the directional pad towards the attack but it blocks essentially everything.

I haven't played Surge 2 very much yet but I was not able to get the hang of the parry system, I mostly reverted to roll spam and backstepping. It feels more natural to parry with the left stick (in the direction you are moving/sidestepping) than with the right, where you push the opposite of where you want to look.

Nioh was fun but it was too long and repetitive, the level design was very poor, re-uses the same enemies from beginning to end, and the diablo loot loses the feel of finely tuned balance that the souls games have. I found all of the special attacks and unlockable moves from level ups unnecessary and too risky to ever use; I beat every enemy and boss in the game by using basic fast combos and then backstepping. OTOH some of the spells (slowing enemies) were so broken they rendered bosses trivial.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I'm replaying this now and god damn, I forgot how incredible this game is. The combat is basically my idea of a perfect sword fighting game. Before Sekiro, the only other games that came close were mount and blade, metal gear revengeance, and those old star wars jedi academy games.. but this is so many leagues ahead of even those it's insane.

I seriously can't believe that no other game has figured out how to create intense sword combat focused on standing right in your opponent's face and having a back and fourth parry slugfest. Fighting sword bosses in particular in this game is probably one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had.

Yeah, I've been arguing for this kind of gameplay in sword-fighting action RPGs forever. Gothic 1 first introduced the concept of timed parrying to me back in early 2000s, and ever since, other kind of action RPG combat seemed stupid by comparison. But a single timed parry has already been done to death (Gothic 2, Risen, Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma), the next logical step is to have multiple back and forth parrying, and maybe some other stuff on top of that. The flow this creates is always very movie-like and puts other stuff to shame.

 

[Matador]

Btw while we're at this topic, I'm now playing Surge 2 and this game is a fantastic compromise for those who prefer parrying to the Souls-esque roll spam but also like stamina management and a wider enemy and weapon variety.

You can slide-jump Nioh style and you have i-frames doing it but the stamina cost is kindda high so you can't just spam the dodge button like a retard, like you can in DS3. It's mostly an "oh shit" button. Most bosses are very difficult, or even straight-up impossible, to beat without parrying, which is great because parrying in Surge 2 is directional - you hold block and then you flip your right stick in the direction of the coming attack. It's by far the most fun and satisfying parry system I've ever played. The entire game is basically worth it just because of this.

I have put The Surge 2 on my wishlist thanks to your post. Looks very interesting.

 

[Hassar]

I didn’t really like the combat system but I used to practice kendo and European fencing so I don’t think I had any expectations that a video game could match real life. I also don’t like rhythm games so that aspect of the system left me bored during most of the game. The enemy AI was also so bad that I couldn’t take them seriously.

 

[Lutte]

I used to practice kendo and European fencing so I don’t think I had any expectations that a video game could match real life.

Matching real life would involve using a load more polearms, bows and latter periods, guns. Swords were mostly sidearms in those time periods.
Interestingly, while the protagonist is stuck to using his toothpick, there are many bosses wielding polearms and when Isshin gets serious he too wields a polearm.

Katanas were good for cutting unarmored peasants though.

 

[Hassar]

I used to practice kendo and European fencing so I don’t think I had any expectations that a video game could match real life.

Matching real life would involve using a load more polearms, bows and latter periods, guns. Swords were mostly sidearms in those time periods.
Interestingly, while the protagonist is stuck to using his toothpick, there are many bosses wielding polearms and when Isshin gets serious he too wields a polearm.

Katanas were good for cutting unarmored peasants though.

Yeah, I don’t think it needs to match real life per se. I just recognize that a system that tries to get closer to the real experience would probably be first person or VR-based. Most of combat is positional and stamina-based - in fencing, for example, you’d be drenched in sweat with your leg muscles aching after a few rounds wearing the armored padding, parrying, and dodging. So part of the experience is lost when your character is able to mow down dozens of enemies with minimal inconvenience and do super jumps over their heads to dodge. More like a romanticized fairytale version of swordplay. Perhaps this is why video games never tell proper epics aside from cutscenes and boss fights? When you read “Tale of the Heiki” or “The Iliad”, the writers talk about the “hand-to-hand conflict” in a very serious tone. A great warrior can become exhausted, overwhelmed, suffer a wound from over-use, and this could lead to defeat or capture. Those elements tend to be lost in power fantasies. You also lose the idea of an adventure being dirty, uncomfortable, and extraordinary.

I think Dark Souls 1 handled weapon selection pretty well. Spears and polearms are way more solid choices than most swords for much of the game.

But, yeah, I’m really just saying that the combat system seemed more “game-y” and I think what it communicated was tension instead of the feel of swordplay. I liked Bushido Blade a lot so I don’t require a game to be a hyper-realistic combat simulator and am willing to suspend disbelief- I just find that game to have a superior baseline than Sekiro. Wounds elevated every combat choice in BB more than Sekiro’s IMO. Probably in the minority here but that’s why I didn’t really think much of this game’s combat & think it is a step back from Dark Souls.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Playing this some more, made it past the flaming bull and lady Butterfly. Game sure has a way of getting the blood pumping. Won quite a few boss battles with a sliver of health left while the boss has a full health bar. Hit that zen state where you know you can't make any more mistakes and just have to parry everything. Pretty fun.

I swear there is input lag though. Could be my controller, I'm using a PS4 controller with the Xbox emulator since the game doesn't recognize it.

Anyone else like to argue with the game when you die? I imagine some kind of Video Game Court of Appeals. "Your honor, you will see here that my client was CLEARLY pressing the block button and therefore should not have taken that last damage."