Shadowrun Shadowrun: Hong Kong Pre-Release Discussion [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Deleted member 7219]

For the pros and cons wrt to real inventory; I mean the ability to swap items amongst runners, the ability to chose armor and items for each runner, including the initial 100k stretch options. Crucially though, we need more gear options at a given power tier. Right now it's a simple matter of "pistol skill 7, no datajack" and you know which pistol to buy. There is a difference between smart/non-smart weapons but the itemization is shit and to me that speaks to the weakness of the inventory/loot system. They need multiple weapons that are competitive at a given power tier with different pros/cons, so that item choice is a part of gameplay. That's part of what I'm talking about when I say 'real inventory'.

Just as long as there is no trash looting, or looting every crate / body you find, I can be happy with that.

 

[Roguey]

The gamey inventory system where everyone has a fixed amount of slots and everything you can't carry goes to your home stash is extremely ftw.

Now if only there were a stretch goal to overhaul the character system. Extremely wishful thinking on my part.

 

[agris]

The gamey inventory system where everyone has a fixed amount of slots and everything you can't carry goes to your home stash is extremely ftw.

Could you qualify that? Some non-declarative sentences would help us in understanding your PoV.

 

[Bubbles]

Could you qualify that? Some non-declarative sentences would help us in understanding your PoV.

It's like PoE's system.

 

[agris]

It's like PoE's system.

It is but it very much isn't. There isn't swapping amongst party members, we don't choose what armor our party members user, there is no general design or appreciation around the fact that we could potentially want to outfit party members with non-default gear. Only in the most superficial sense is the inventory system like PoE's, in that there is an unlimited reservoir to dump loot into and.. that's about it. Both systems have a set amount of item slots for loot, but PoE lets you trade between characters.

The comparison doesn't hold up imo.

 

[Roguey]

It is but it very much isn't. There isn't swapping amongst party members, we don't choose what armor our party members user, there is no general design or appreciation around the fact that we could potentially want to outfit party members with non-default gear. Only in the most superficial sense is the inventory system like PoE's, in that there is an unlimited reservoir to dump loot into and.. that's about it. Both systems have a set amount of item slots for loot, but PoE lets you trade between characters.

The comparison doesn't hold up imo.

I'm just saying I like the lack of encumbrance, inventory juggling, and all that other fiddly nonsense that tends to be coupled with RPGs.

 

[GarfunkeL]

If you start adding more weapons, you need to introduce the attachment system as well. Heck, it's been part of the Core rules of the P&P SR for a long time now, so adding it isn't a stretch. And yes, it is very much like JA2 in that you have laser aim pointers and different scopes and recoil stabilizers and forward-grips and bipods and silencers in addition to the trademark SmartLink.

EDIT: but you would then need to add different magazines and ammunition types and a recoil system to fully take advantage and we're clearly way outside of the scope that HBS can manage with their resources.

BUT MY DREAM OF SHADOWRUN IN JA2 1.13 NEVER DIES!

 

[Anthedon]

All right, I'm onboard. 28 days to go and $560,776 of $100,000 raised.

 

[cruelio]

If you start adding more weapons, you need to introduce the attachment system as well. Heck, it's been part of the Core rules of the P&P SR for a long time now, so adding it isn't a stretch. And yes, it is very much like JA2 in that you have
BUT MY DREAM OF SHADOWRUN IN JA2 1.13 NEVER DIES!

Something like that makes too much sense to make a game out of, sorry.

 

[Jaesun]

Creator Harebrained Schemes LLC about 1 hour ago
Some late in the day answers to your HEY HBS! questions...

>>>add ranged adepts
Alas, no.

>>>what's after $700k?
We'll let you know soon.

>>>more variations of items
In general, I'd rather create a small group of cool things with clear gameplay additions than a larger list "new" weapons that have minor variations. I'll look into it, though.

>>>high ground
Not in this go-round. Perhaps, one day, we'll go the full 3d route... but not this day.

>>>AI polishing
Did a big revision in DFDC and we're working on new enemy behaviors in HK. What are you looking for?

>>>new in-game sprites/model options
This is a complicated request to deliver due to the number of outfits any of these models could wear. We wouldn't just be creating new models. We'd also have to revise every outfit in the game to work with them. Call this a no-answer but an acknowledgment of your request.

>>>consequences of your decisions
We're very into this idea and we want to make your actions feel like they aren't just chrome. That is why we are so focused on our plans and aren't taking every suggestion under the sun. Consequences are very time consuming to pull off from a design, writing, execution, and (especially) testing point of view. That's one of the reasons you see me say, "No." so often to feature requests. In a story-based RPG, consequences make you feel like you're playing your game, not ours. We want that, it's hard, it's expensive, and we want that.

 

[tuluse]

Ask if they can let non-boss enemies attack more than once in a turn.

 

[Jason Liang]

Things I want that I know we wont get:

#1 Vehicles
#2 Stealth
#3 Contacts system (like Shadowrun Genesis)
#4 Johnson system, generates random high level runs (like Shadowrun Genesis)
#5 Crafting (like Arcanum's diploma system, based off INT [like CHA etiquette])
#6 Allow modders to easily alter the game system (like Aurora Engine .hak files)
#7 More environmental systems, more baroque hub

They should also rebalance the guns, rifles are in a different tier right now.

 

[Stompa]

>>>add ranged adepts
Alas, no.

Seriously, adepts need some love, they're the most rigid archetype currently, close combat all day every day and little to no choice between chi powers.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

I think they are doing the right thing by limiting the scope of the game to what they realistically can achieve with their current staff than go hogwild with cool features.
It ensure that they actually have the time and effort to polish the features that they are working on than having half-baked buggy features all over the place on release.
So, I am pretty ok with all the features that they are currently implementing.

 

[roshan]

>>>high ground
Not in this go-round. Perhaps, one day, we'll go the full 3d route... but not this day.

Please no 3D. 2D isometric is what elevated Dragonfall above unplayable messes like NWN2, Divinity OS and Wasteland 2.

 

[krist2]

Remember, this isn't a sprint, it's a marathon and our goal is not to raise as much funding as we can. It's to raise as much funding as we need to do what we're planning.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Seriously, adepts need some love, they're the most rigid archetype currently, close combat all day every day and little to no choice between chi powers.

Throwing daggers and hand grenades bro, get on that.

 

[Surf Solar]

Please no 3D. 2D isometric is what elevated Dragonfall above unplayable messes like NWN2, Divinity OS and Wasteland 2.

He was simply speaking about includint an additional z axis for the game engine to recognize.

 

[Jools]

Backed.

 

[Roguey]

Please no 3D. 2D isometric is what elevated Dragonfall above unplayable messes like NWN2, Divinity OS and Wasteland 2.

Elevation rules are much easier to do in 3D.
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/59989-do-not-make-the-game-isometric/page-6#entry1186510

Simple rules can be established to allow, for example, an archer to have extended range and an improved chance to hit, simply by being at a higher elevation. This can more easily be done programmatically than by hand, because you can use the game engine itself to calculate these rules. Suddenly you've added a tactical element to the combat system that can be applied to the entire map. With a 2D map these situations have to be explicitly specified by hand which slows iteration time and can create additional costs (opportunity or otherwise).

 

[roshan]

Elevation rules are much easier to do in 3D.
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/59989-do-not-make-the-game-isometric/page-6#entry1186510

It's not worth the inevitable 30% of game time being used for rotating, zooming, realigning the camera. Plus the constant irritation with random shit suddenly sticking out at you, and fugly graphics including polygons clipping and parts of the screen turning black, and often crap gameplay and level design, because for some reason, the 3D takes so much out of the game that everything else is usually worthless. Count me out, 3D games are total shit.

2D isometric or I can't be bothered.

 

[tuluse]

HBS already doing a simple 3D geometry with their tiling. What different levels would do is vastly increase the art requirements (now you need angled versions of everything for elevation changes), and make pathfinding and AI much harder.

 

[imweasel]

It's not worth the inevitable 30% of game time being used for rotating, zooming, realigning the camera. Plus the constant irritation with random shit suddenly sticking out at you, and fugly graphics including polygons clipping and parts of the screen turning black, and often crap gameplay and level design, because for some reason, the 3D takes so much out of the game that everything else is usually worthless. Count me out, 3D games are total shit.

2D isometric or I can't be bothered.

Well, Shadowrun (or Pillars of Eternity for that matter) isn't "2D" or "3D", it is something in between.

Shocking, I know.

Anyway, games Like SR that use parallel projection and static 2D backdrops will always look a bit shitty because of the lack of (a dynamic) perspective AKA motion parallaxing and other 3D graphical goodies.

 

[agris]

Anyway, games Like SR that use parallel projection and static 2D backdrops will always look a bit shitty because of the lack of (a dynamic) perspective AKA motion parallaxing and other 3D graphical goodies.

Actually, both SRR and SR:DF have perspective rendering as an option, in addition to orthographic. It affects every object in the map.

 

[Kem0sabe]

They are working with an extremely small team and budget, from HBS answers a couple of posts back, I very much expect HK to be a story expansion to the franchise instead of expanding on mechanics and new game play elements.

So new weapon progression systems, stealth, Astral plane, persistent world, stuff like that, will only be possible in a future where HBS is either backed by a publisher with money or their SR games start selling like hotcakes, none of which seem to be reasonable assumptions in the short term