Bard's Tale The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep - Director's Cut

[TT1]

Why people are still talking about this game?

Because it's a good game.

 

[Barbalos]

From watching some streamers play it, it seemed pretty good really. But the overabundance of puzzles turned me off a bit.

Also the music is some of the best I have ever heard in a video game.

 

[Morkar Left]

From watching some streamers play it, it seemed pretty good really. But the overabundance of puzzles turned me off a bit.

Also the music is some of the best I have ever heard in a video game.

The biggest problem by now is the char system which completely falls apart pretty early and in general doesn't give you the feeling of actually developing a char.

 

[newtmonkey]

The biggest problem with the game is the puzzles, by far. Combat/character development is less of a problem because it's sort of fun at first, gets a bit more interesting 15-20 hours in as you start to unlock skill synergies between characters... but then, just as character development gets interesting (once you've reached the "elite classes" on the skill board), combat turns completely braindead, as you become overwhelmingly powerful while still fighting the exact same enemies, just with more armor/HP (which means nothing).

When it comes down to it, I'm not sure for whom the game was developed.

Anyone who really likes brain-busting puzzles will be bored at the simple puzzles and annoyed at the combat.

Anyone who really likes combat/character development (i.e. rpgs) will get annoyed at doing the same puzzles over and over in between easy combats.

I can only guess that they were trying to capture a casual market, the kind of people that played and enjoyed Bard's Tale 2004, who might enjoy this game's mixture of casual puzzles and "seems deep at first but is also casual" combat. But then, the game requires top of the line hardware to run well in the middle/late parts of the game, so I can't imagine many casual gamers even being able to play this game.

 

[ortucis]

I avoid games with puzzles in them. The fact that this game relies on them to waste player's time, killed any interest I had in this game.

If they add an option to disable puzzles, fix bugs, fix enemies, gameplay and remake the game into a good game, I'll consider buying it.

 

[ProphetSword]

When it comes down to it, I'm not sure for whom the game was developed.

People who would buy it based upon name recognition of a cherished CRPG series from the golden era. Idiots like me, riding a high after beating the first chapter of the remastered Bard's Tale Trilogy, thinking that it would be cool to own a new chapter. They got me good on that one. I haven't felt this fucked over since I rushed out to buy "Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor" on release day.

 

[Grauken]

At least you didn't waste money like me on the kickstarter

(and I really thought they couldn't fuck up a new BT)

 

[aweigh]

i got banned from the steams forum of BT4 for making a thread titled "Why do you guys think they dumbed down the mechanics?". Didn't even use a single swear word!

There were quite a few morons who jumped in to say BT4 was "way more complex" than the original trilogy, going as far as to say the original trilogy of BT games were "made for children", and that the Hearthstone influence was actually a good thing. Truly infuriating stuff.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I think he's hit the nail on the head with one part though:

In any case The Bard's Tale IV is neither a traditional dungeon crawler nor a traditional puzzle game. I think you'd actually have to be a fan of both genres to enjoy the game, and if that is true, then instead of broadening their player base, the developers narrowed it to what I would guess would be a pretty small segment of gamers.

Certainly the Steam player numbers would back up the 'small' bit. It's staying ahead of the Remasters, but not by much.

The casualization of combat and exploration/puzzles meant that The Bard's Tale IV would appeal neither to fans of Wizardry-likes, nor fans of Dungeon Master-likes, nor fans of tactical combat RPGs (e.g. the Gold Box games), nor anything else that could considered a "traditional dungeon crawler". As I've written before, fundamental design choices alienated anything resembling the original audience for the Bard's Tale trilogy, while the developers were unable to pick up the casual gaming audience they were so clearly pursuing. The reasons for the latter aren't entirely clear, though the horrendous optimization and serious bugs on release certainly hurt, and I suppose casuals might have been interested in either the combat or the puzzles but not both simultaneously.

 

[newtmonkey]

BT4 "way more complex" haha
The only way BT4 is more complex than BT1-3 is its retarded interface.

Don't get me wrong, BT1 is not a very complex game compared with Wiz (even when it was released, it was like Wizardry but with AWESOME GRAFIX), but with BT4 they replaced mapping challenges, trapped chests, enemies that actually pose a threat, etc. with pushing fairies at rocks. At least they kept environmental traps and class switching (much MUCH later in the game).

It's too bad, the environments are actually pretty fun to explore, and there's even a vertical component with the grappling hooks. Unfortunately, exploring just gets you more and more junk for crafting and—very rarely—magic weapons that are not nearly as good as the weapons you win from encounters/buy in stores.

The game would be much better by restricting puzzles only to actual dungeons/towers, and removing them completely from the outdoor areas, where they make no sense whatsoever. How the fuck do people travel from town to town? When you want to deliver apples to your brother the next town over, you need to solve 5 block puzzles?

 

[theSavant]

When it comes down to it, I'm not sure for whom the game was developed.

Anyone who really likes brain-busting puzzles will be bored at the simple puzzles and annoyed at the combat.

Anyone who really likes combat/character development (i.e. rpgs) will get annoyed at doing the same puzzles over and over in between easy combats.

I can only guess that they were trying to capture a casual market, the kind of people that played and enjoyed Bard's Tale 2004, who might enjoy this game's mixture of casual puzzles and "seems deep at first but is also casual" combat. But then, the game requires top of the line hardware to run well in the middle/late parts of the game, so I can't imagine many casual gamers even being able to play this game.

Though casual players will not spend 30-40 hours on a casual game... 10-15 hours at most (except the game is "easy to get going" like Skyrim, FlappyBird, etc.).

So again, who was the target audience? In their mind obviously everyone who recognizes an element in the game which also exists in their favorite game type. That's like when in Lands of Lore 3 you'll find a gun later in the game, Westwood could have said: "Shooter fans, you will love LOL3"... that's just dumb. But that's how inXile designed BT4...


We have cartoonish character portraits --> Anime, Weaaboo, Elminage, jRPG fans, you will love BT4
We have environments that look like Skyrim --> Skyrim fans, you will love BT4
We have puzzles --> Portal fans you will love BT4
If Portal fans love it, HL2 fans will probably love it too -- Halflife2 fans, you will love BT4 (Halflife 3 confirmed)
We have challenging enemy encounters like in Dark Souls --> Dark Souls fans, you will love BT4
The game has a blobber history, so it will attract all blobber fans --> Blobber, Wizardry, Might&Magic fans, you will love BT4
We have elements similar to Heroes of Might & Magic --> Heroes of Might Magic and Age of Wonders fans, you will love BT4
We have an inbuilt tennis court combat system --> Tennis players, your will love BT4
We have combat built on trading card systems --> Hearthstone fans, you will love BT4
In combat you see your characters on the field comparable to an isometric game --> Baldurs Gate, PoE, Divinity:OS fans, you will love BT4
We have characters that look like dolls --> Barbie players, you will love BT4
We have block puzzles --> Tetris players, you will love BT4
We have party banter like in Dragon Age --> Dragon Age fans, you will love BT4
We have skills with cooldowns --> MMORPG fans, you will love BT4
We have a combat view, that looks like you're on a spaceship with glowing neon colors --> Wing Commander and Star Citizen fans, you will love BT4
...
Oh and btw. we have exaggerated everything because consultants said we only get attention if we exaggerate everything. So we have exaggerated puzzles. And we have made them repetitive, because MMORPG players also like repetition.


Omg, everybody will love BT4! The whole world will love it. And we get the moneeeeeyz!!!

Omg omg omg!


What can go wrong?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Block puzzles? Like anvil of dawn or any pressure plate EOB/DM-like game or worse?

Combat looked confusing? Is that party shared AP or individual AP like old fallout 1-2 and arcanum? Don’t matter. I can’t run the thing.

 

[newtmonkey]

The block puzzles are sokoban for retards, basically.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I bought a new MP3 player and it had this and Tetris on it. Don’t know who’d want to play this in a screen smaller than a quarter but that certainly doesnt compel me to even touch BT4.

 

[theSavant]

Regarding my previous sarcastic post: they clearly tried a "hybridization" of different game elements. And there is nothing wrong with it per se. I think every beginning/indie game developer thinks about hybridizing game elements of different genres to attract people from multiple genres. Though the emphasis here is on "beginners". I thought inXile had more experience than "beginners" to know, that they must be very careful with that. But what they did then is just... words fail me to describe it...

 

[Bohr]

Surely it's time for the accolades video now, we've been patient

 

[BEvers]

Such a video is best deployed during Christmastime. For now, this is how they're trying to drive sales:

 

[aweigh]

crow quill is such a shitty fantasy bard name.

 

[Grauken]

At least they strive for consistency

 

[newtmonkey]

The puzzle weapons were a great idea. However, by the time you find them and solve all their puzzles, they are outclassed by the stuff Joe & Mildred the potato vendors sell on their potato cart. It's not even close; the puzzle weapons will often have half the stat bonuses of stuff you trip over on your way out the door—that means, half the damage, half the INT bonus for practitioners, etc. Instead, they will have some bizarre ability instead like a random chance of of removing 1 or 2 spell points from an enemy spellcaster, which is useless because you can instead just hit those spellcasters with your sword and kill them outright.

 

[Sinatar]

The worst part of the puzzle weapons is most of them have skills attached and they force those skills into your limited 4 skill slots overriding something you'd actually want. If those skills were added your available skill choices and not forced on you the puzzle weapons would be a million times better.

 

[Quillon]

If those skills were added your available skill choices and not forced on you the puzzle weapons would be a million times better.

Naw there is no way! Maybe they would be a thousand times better and that's it!

 

[aweigh]

proper RPG itemization would go a long way to fixing BT4, but that would require also overhauling the character attributes system and adding ranges to damage and rolls.

EDIT: Also just simply removing the equipement gating would also go a long way too!

 

[Lady_Error]

Just a quick Yes or No question: Is the step-movement there yet?

 

[aweigh]

nope