Game News Torment Kickstarter Update #6: Meres, Castoff's Labyrinth and Brian Mitsoda!

[hiver]

Yes. But he also addressed my concern about labyrinth being something nice you can just jump into and get all the goodies. Not with just a reassurance but with a tangible argument and an idea.

he understood the problem - and thats what is needed if one wants to find a solution.

 

[winterraptor]

Basically, he's given assurance that it'll be plausible, fit in with the rest of the game world and, as I mentioned earlier, not make people think "that's dumb" when they encounter it

 

[Kirtai]

Dear god, my eyes!

 

[Irxy]

That Labyrinth sounds fun, now I'm worried about not dying enough to experience it... guess playing on a maximum difficulty is a must for this game. )

 

[DwarvenFood]

Luckily there is someone with more brain and sense than you people.

WTF hiver, execute redirect hate routines asap

 

[General Maxson]

That Labyrinth sounds fun, now I'm worried about not dying enough to experience it... guess playing on a maximum difficulty is a must for this game. )

FFS, like that's gonna be difficult. Just leave your character to die in the first combat you encounter and voila. :D

 

[grdja]

This is a 3D model with texture mapping. Can someone make the case for exactly why 2D backgrounds are inherently superior to high res textures and 3D, especially with Mudbox and Zbrush being so popular? I'm not convinced quite yet.

It is a prerendered 3D. Aka if you wanted to use it in a game it would be a 2D static picture and you'd move and scale character models around it. No one is asking for hand drawn or anything when they talk about 2D backgrounds, they are asking for prerendered or pre-drawn backgrounds to that the world can look better. W2 engine isn't really good and wouldn't do justice to visual side of the setting.

And if you wanted to have actual 3D game engine look like that? Well that scene you show is at or above what Cry Engine 3 can do in pure tech dome mode. So a bit outside InXile's budget .

 

[evdk]

[W2 engine isn't really good and wouldn't do justice to visual side of the setting.

W2 uses the same engine as P:E - Unity. This is not an engine discussion.

 

[MasPingon]

I'm just listening Outcast soundtrack. Damn, I can't wait to hear what Mark Morgan can get out of real orchestra. If something can get even close to Outcast ost, T:ToN is a strong candidate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8x-v4qy4uo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtdSH9YKJrM

 

[Globbi]

hiver, you bring some interesting points but most of them should be easy to answer. You ask about physical objects but in the update devs basically said that you find something, and they have not designed any of this something yet ;] Anyway, you started a nice discussion in comments on KS, my contribution:

"
Since the Labyrinth is inside your mind and you look for connections or projections of real world, then going there repeatedly most likely won't work. New paths or fathoms should appear after meeting important/interesting people and having had crazy things happen to you. Dieing repeatedly could in some cases lead to more dialogues and rethinking some previous choices but more often the Labyrinth should be simplified or skipped. But then we arrive back at point of death leading to waking up somewhere, which is not that terrible though.

Something I'd like is having storyline adjust when you die. You fall and not die, but you companions keep fighting or are captured, or maybe they run . Maybe in some cases you should lose something that you'd possibly gain from winning battle but gain insights from your metaphysical journey.

Maybe at some point you would subconsciously cast yourself into one of your companions and control him thinking that you just wander through Labyrinth. That could lead him to getting an item which you find in your vision.

As a lot of encounters are unique the possibilities are there. I hope this Labyrinth really works out and makes sense.
"

 

[grdja]

[W2 engine isn't really good and wouldn't do justice to visual side of the setting.

W2 uses the same engine as P:E - Unity. This is not an engine discussion.

But it does so in a different way. W2 is full 3D while PE has prerednered backgrounds and just 3D characters on top of them. Which by the way leaves you to allocate most of the polygon count and rendering power to character models.

 

[Irxy]

FFS, like that's gonna be difficult. Just leave your character to die in the first combat you encounter and voila. :D

But thats exploitation of game mechanics, for the sake of immersion death should come natural.

 

[evdk]

But it does so in a different way. W2 is full 3D while PE has prerednered backgrounds and just 3D characters on top of them. Which by the way leaves you to allocate most of the polygon count and rendering power to character models.

Yes. But it's all done using the same engine.

 

[Roguey]

That Labyrinth sounds fun, now I'm worried about not dying enough to experience it... guess playing on a maximum difficulty is a must for this game. )

Adam Heine says you can enter the labyrinth without dying. Which is great since the thing gets larger each time you enter (up until the point where it doesn't).

 

[commie]

I'm just listening Outcast soundtrack. Damn, I can't wait to hear what Mark Morgen can get out of real orchestra. If something can get even close to Outcast ost, T:ToN is a strong candidate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8x-v4qy4uo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtdSH9YKJrM

Yeah that's a great soundtrack. I would often load the last save I had before Cutter enters that capsule for the last time just so I could hear the closing theme.

Fuck Torment, where's my Outcast 2?

 

[spectre]

Fuck Torment, where's my Outcast 2?

Ban commie

 

[FeelTheRads]

This is a 3D model with texture mapping. Can someone make the case for exactly why 2D backgrounds are inherently superior to high res textures and 3D, especially with Mudbox and Zbrush being so popular? I'm not convinced quite yet.

Somehow I missed this

You don't even know what you don't know. That's not fucking 3D. It's as much 3D as the backgrounds in the Infinity Engine were, that is: Pre-rendered 3D scenes.

 

[Drowed]

Yes. But it's all done using the same engine.

I think his point is that the engine can't handle "heavy" 3D graphics well (or at least not as well as other engines), but it can run a 2D background just fine. So, a 2D background will always be more detailed than a 3D one, especially with their budged in mind.

 

[hiver]

Luckily there is someone with more brain and sense than you people.

WTF hiver, execute redirect hate routines asap

What, whaaaat... :redirecting randomly: whats the problem?

hiver, you bring some interesting points but most of them should be easy to answer.

really? well thats great to hear.

You ask about physical objects but in the update devs basically said that you find something, and they have not designed any of this something yet ;]

Im not sure i follow... what is this "something" you talk about. As far as i know what you find in your head or soul is listed clearly, not as "something" we know nothing about.

Anyway, you started a nice discussion in comments on KS, my contribution:

Since the Labyrinth is inside your mind and you look for connections or projections of real world, then going there repeatedly most likely won't work.

How about starting the contribution by listing your suggestions rather then the ending conclusion? (Man... im so grumpy right now.... just woke up)
I dont see any discussion either. Just a few posts and people sticking their heads into sand and going "nuh, nuh,nuh its going to be great, great, im not listening, im not listening, nuh,nhuh,nuh."

One is even accusing me of "doubting the devs too much" like im in the fucking church and this is religion of some sort.

As a lot of encounters are unique the possibilities are there. I hope this Labyrinth really works out and makes sense.

me too... me too.

Thats why questions need to be asked, explanations required, ideas explored, suggestions presented.

 

[grdja]

Yes. But it's all done using the same engine.

I think his point is that the engine can't handle "heavy" 3D graphics well (or at least not as well as other engines), but it can run a 2D background just fine. So, a 2D background will always be more detailed than a 3D one, especially with their budged in mind.

Yup.

 

[Globbi]

Im not sure i follow... what is this "something" you talk about. As far as i know what you find in your head or soul is listed clearly, not as "something" we know nothing about.

My point is, it has not been designed yet. There may be different explanations for every single cypher that you find. Your concern is valid, it's good you asked this question about physical objects, but I don't expect a direct answer to this from devs right now.

I dont see any discussion either. Just a few posts and people sticking their heads into sand and going "nuh, nuh,nuh its going to be great, great, im not listening, im not listening, nuh,nhuh,nuh."

Well, OK. I guess it's not really what you expected. But I see a number of posts about actual content instead of more "I like" posts

How about starting the contribution by listing your suggestions rather then the ending conclusion? (Man... im so grumpy right now.... just woke up)

Well, sorry for not structuring a few sentences better. I did give my suggestions though:
- Labyrinth reflecting real experiences and expanding only after certain events (to not die all the time)
- casting yourself into companions and doing something physically while being dead (thus acquiring physical object)
- plot advancing during your physical death (so that dieing is not just addition but replaces something and makes more sense than teleporting your body)

 

[jewboy]

This is a 3D model with texture mapping. Can someone make the case for exactly why 2D backgrounds are inherently superior to high res textures and 3D, especially with Mudbox and Zbrush being so popular? I'm not convinced quite yet.

Somehow I missed this

You don't even know what you don't know. That's not fucking 3D. It's as much 3D as the backgrounds in the Infinity Engine were, that is: Pre-rendered 3D scenes.

So it's not 3D, but it is 3D? Yeah, that makes sense. Obviously it has been rendered. Otherwise it would just be wireframe showing a bunch of polygons. Was your point supposed to be that the rendering engine the artist used is far better than Unity? If that is your point then make it. Just throwing out the term 'pre-rendered' is not an automatic win.

 

[Rake]

The point is that when people ask for 2D they mean pre-rendered 3D. Noone wants 2D that have been handpainted from the ground up. this screenshot is excactly what those asking for 2D are wanting.

 

[hiver]

Globbi

My point is, it has not been designed yet. There may be different explanations for every single cypher that you find.

Well - I am asking for those future explanations. And i cant just count on something that might be explained when i think logically about a feature now, can i?

Well, OK. I guess it's not really what you expected.

What i actually expected is an answer form a dev formed in such a way that it is clear he sees the same potential problems - which are self evident.

Well, sorry for not structuring a few sentences better. I did give my suggestions though:
- Labyrinth reflecting real experiences and expanding only after certain events (to not die all the time)
- casting yourself into companions and doing something physically while being dead (thus acquiring physical object)
- plot advancing during your physical death (so that dieing is not just addition but replaces something and makes more sense than teleporting your body)

Im grumpy.... my head is kind of in a labyrinth of its own and it isnt a nice place that fulfills my wishes at the moment.

In fact... its only saying "give me more coffeeeee, mooore cooofffeeeee....."
- wait damnit! the water is heating up! here, take a swing of the cold one`s residue! GULP! now shut up dammit."

First is alright. Second doesnt make much sense (doing something physically in the real world while you are dead) and can produce various other consistency problems. its just another benefit piled on top of all others already there. Third - same as second.

 

[FeelTheRads]

So it's not 3D, but it is 3D? Yeah, that makes sense. Obviously it has been rendered. Otherwise it would just be wireframe showing a bunch of polygons. Was your point supposed to be that the rendering engine the artist used is far better than Unity? If that is your point then make it. Just throwing out the term 'pre-rendered' is not an automatic win.

"2D backgrounds" in the Infinity engine are pre-rendered 3D scenes. The engine doesn't render them. That's what you have there as an example too. A pre-rendered 3D scene. You're just saying: Hey, why do you want 3D pre-rendered scenes when 3D pre-rendered scenes look this great????

3D in games means real-time 3D. Like W2. Not that the backgrounds were pre-rendered. That's 2D.

So yes, it's an automatic win because you really have no idea what you're talking about.