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What game are you wasting time on?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Trash, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. Sykar Arcane

    Sykar
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    The combat in UR is several levels above that of FO and much more varied. I have no idea what you mean with "refined". When it comes to combat and character building Underrail is way ahead of Fallout. FO beats it in writing and C&C but thats about it.
     
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  2. Dux Erudite

    Dux
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    I'm not going to go out and say F1 or F2 had amazing AI or even combat for that matter, but these are quite old games we're talking about and the underlying concept was fairly new back then. As for "refined" I'm basically talking about the overral design.

    As for myself I never really found that Underrail pushed the envelope so to speak, even though it's obviously more sophisticated. Not as sophisticated as I would've hoped, though. A lot of fights felt far too similar and I was rarely - if ever - surprised by things that occurred in them. That's my experience. I guess after so many fights I hoped to be caught off guard just once and see something different from the enemies. As far as I could see, however, most enemies seem to have one mode and that's it.
     
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  3. Adon Prophet

    Adon
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    As someone who plays fighting games, that last boss fight in MGS4 isn't even good at what it tries to be. It ends up playing out like a really bad, stiff 3D fighting game, and it's even worse in higher difficulties. The only reason people like to laud that boss fight is because of how much nostalgia is dripping out of it.
     
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  4. markec Twitterbot Patron

    markec
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Project: Eternity Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    I do think that the way they ended Goodbye Deponia felt forced, out of place and open to sequel, but I wouldn't have minded that ending that much if there was no fourth game.

    Doomsday on the other hand gives you hope at start and then you experience game that felt like hours of gut punches made by developer that hates its fan base, ending with a big middle finger.

    As I said I came into the game expecting a lighthearted feel good story with a happy ending and got a big fuck you.

    I expected as much so I decided to first try The Dark Eye: Chains of Satinav and then Memoria.
     
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  5. kalganoat Learned

    kalganoat
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    I'm playing ninja gaiden 2 on 360. I've played sigma 2 on PS3 before but people always say it sucks compared to NG2. So I just have to try the real thing.

    Yeah it's so much better than sigma 2. Only downside is shitty fps drops. Imma get a xbox one the moment this game is backward compatible.
     
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  6. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    The only NG worth playing in the reboot series is the original (2004).
     
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  7. TheHeroOfTime Arcane

    TheHeroOfTime
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    About the Ninja gaiden I think the is best is playing both versions from PS3 & 360, mainly because each version has improvements and letdowns that the others doesn’t have.

    In the case of comparisons, I think the people tends to find the “Black VS Sigma” a lot of more jarring due the lack of riddles. Unfortunately I never had the oportunity to play the original xbox version.
     
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  8. Shackleton Arbiter Patron

    Shackleton
    Joined:
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again!
    Just given up on Mafia 3, after taking over the first area. Got in this months Humble Bundle and thought I'd see if it was as bad as Codex made it out to be at launch.

    Yes, yes it is.

    Made quite a good first impression, decent intro section for the first 2-3 hours. Great soundtrack and a gorgeous city to drive around. Introduced you to the gameplay elements while setting out the groundwork for a fairly run-of-the mill revenge tale. Graphics are decent now it's fully patched. I thought it was going to be the usual open world fare- collect stuff, take over areas, upgrade stuff etc etc.

    However, then it came to the open world missions. Holy shiii-iit, the AI is absolutely horrific! Literally every encounter was broken by the extreme ninja skills of hiding behind a box and whistling. Get one enemy to come over, 'Q' him for an instant kill, then watch as every enemy in the level wanders slowly over one by one to see what the deal is with the dead body only to get an instant one-button knockout and join the pile.

    Maybe it gets better later, (although I highly doubt it), but after the first area it became apparent that I was going to be doing the exact same routine for the next 30 or so hours and frankly I've got better things to do with my time. Like picking my belly-button fluff out or cutting my toenails. Such a shame they apparently spent all the time on graphics and rushed the AI and mission design. Even the brilliant 60's songs couldn't get me to waste anymore time on this one.
     
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  9. Karwelas Dwarf Taffer

    Karwelas
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    Is that Aurora?
     
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  10. Ezekiel Savant

    Ezekiel
    Joined:
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    More decline coming... I'm replaying Uncharted 2 (HD collection), trying to use as little cover as possible. It's usually easier without. You know, a lot of my deaths are because I get bored waiting for my screen to no longer be black and white. I've heard it said that health regen allows for a faster pace, since you don't have to be as careful or look out for health items, but I feel it's the opposite. I can run non-stop through a level of any Max Payne, quickly swallowing painkillers. Here, you're constantly cowering and waiting.
     
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  11. Ash Arcane

    Ash
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    Stop taking poison.

    Another fine man lost to the decline today. What a shame. Rotten way to go...
     
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  12. Deflowerer Arcane

    Deflowerer
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    I tried Uncharted 1 myself recently and I couldn't. Limp piece of fucking garbage.
     
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  13. Mark.L.Joy Savant

    Mark.L.Joy
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    Always wondered what people saw in that boring piece of shit game
     
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  14. Deflowerer Arcane

    Deflowerer
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    Since Far Cry 5 came out, it reminded me that I hadn't played any Far Cry games and have the first one on Steam for some reason, so installed it and gave it a shot. Seems alright, will see how frustrating it will get playing on Realistic.
     
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  15. Durandal Arcane

    Durandal
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    In my search for first-person shooters with good boss battles I came across Gun Buster, a 2.5D light gun shooter made by Taito in 1992, featuring an unique joystick & light gun set-up similar to what most modern first-person shooters would use, and an actual deathmatch multiplayer mode, which makes this game quite the innovator considering it was released right before Wolfenstein 3D and a year before Doom.

    Show Spoiler
    You play as a bounty hunter (called Blade R- I mean Gun Busters) whose mission it is to take out cyborgs gone mad with a prize on their head. Between every mission your handler lets you pick out of two missions which to accept, and progression is actually kind of branched, where more difficult opponents yield higher bounties. Moving around is done with the joystick, whereas aiming is done via the light gun (or mouse if you play it emulated) which controls a crosshair on screen, and turning is done by moving the gun to the left or right edge of the screen. You get to choose between four Gun Busters, each with their own health and speed attributes, and their own special firing ability. One fires a laser, the other a spread shot, and the other two I forgot about. Turning having to be done by moving your crosshair to the edge of the screen instead of mouseaim controlling both turning and aiming is rather annoying, though probably an inevitability given the 2.5D engine. Since your turning speed is limited and the drawing distance of sprites even more so, the game has a useful pop-up in the form of a rader telling you in which direction you need to turn or where to go next in order to get to the boss.

    What's also interesting is that Gun Buster is essentially a boss rush game. Each stage has you and the boss enemies face off in a small arena, where sometimes there are more boss enemies, some times they'll constantly spawn cannon fodder, and so on. There's certainly no lack of variety here. Some bosses are fought through a motorcycle chase (it should be noted that all Gun Busters magically float in the air in a crouched Superman pose, as if they're equipped with an invisible jetpack), the other is fought over the sea as he constantly submerges to get you from beneath, the other disables your radar and has you aimlessly chase him through a big arena, and the other is a giant talking brain in a tube who'll eventually start chasing you around. What's cool is that the more you damage the bosses the more you tear off their fake skin and the more their true robotic nature is shown.

    The arcade game structure also influences a lot of things about this game which you don't see in, any other first-person shooter really. To avoid having the player getting lost, the levels are small arenas. Instead of facing a plethora of enemies at once, it's just you versus one or two boss fights. Hitscan is non-existent, and some projectiles can actually be shot down. There's loads of variety in the way bosses can damage you, homing missiles, straight lasers, mines, spreadshots, enemy spawns, you name it. Ammo is unlimited, and the special attack instead needs to recharge over time. You don't need to find an exit, just killing the boss transports you to the next level select screen.

    I'm not particularly experienced with light-gun games, but I don't think you can reasonably no-damage this game (a TAS might prove me wrong). The attack frequency of some of the later bosses is so ridiculous that it becomes hard to consistently avoid their attacks, especially depending on how restrictive the arena design might be. Your limited turning speed doesn't help during some of the bosses who spawn loads of enemies which shoot you from all directions or some of the motorcycle chases where the boss can make some sharp turns, which leaves you constantly turning the screen around until you can align your sight with the boss. As a result it feels like some attacks are just impossible to avoid. It doesn't help either that the amount of health you recover between levels (damage persists in this game) is incredibly low. With a modern control scheme and reasonable sprite drawing distance this might have been avoided, but as it stands some of the later bosses make it feel more like you have to tank your way through and hope you have enough health left to reach the final boss.

    As a result I like the bosses here more conceptually than how they are actually executed, though even so the boss fights here stand above most boss fights in every other FPS out there. For starters the bosses here don't have (untelegraphed or inconsistently avoidable) hitscan attacks, they aren't a puzzle boss which need to be beat through solving an abstract challenge rather than actually challenging the skills you have learned throughout the game, they aren't a lazy summoner-type boss, they aren't helicopters, they aren't QTE sequences, they aren't giant bulletsponges, they actually move around and challenge your aiming skills (even if this is more of a result of the awkward control scheme), there exists some semblance of playing aggressively here unlike most bosses where you either need to take potshots or the way of dealing damage is so one-sided that there's no real way of optimizing your damage output and thus killing the boss faster, and since you only have weapon they don't suffer from the problem every other FPS has where despite your giant arsenal designed to take on multiple enemies at once, only the most powerful weapons are of any use against single powerful enemies.

    This game is especially interesting to me because it's an arcade first-person shooter developed by a Japanese company which unlike most light-gun shooters (I assume) lets you actually move around, already a rarity on its own considering Japanese developers gave this genre a wide berth as a year later the Masters of Doom established the legacy of first-person shooters on the PC platform which would be embraced mostly by Western developers, and the unique control set-up of Gun Buster probably couldn't be as easily replicated or popularized in the arcade scene, the game wastes a lot of time with its first two bosses on tutorials anyways because of how unorthodox the controls are.

    For action platformers I've always considered there to be two main design philosophy branches, the Japanese arcade action platformers focused primarily on limited toolsets, a minimalistic scope and high difficulty, whereas the Western Apogee-esque platformers were developed for the home gaming audience by home gamers first and foremost, which thus focused on breadth of content, more open level design focused on exploration and finding secrets, and being more maximalist in scope and terms of content. For first-person shooters, Doom would obviously fit the latter, as id did make Commander Keen before Doom.

    Doom in turn influenced the FPS genre as a whole with this philosophy, to the point where 'good FPS level design' has mostly been conflated to the standards of Doom and Quake because they are good and because no alternative in FPS level design philosophy has really been acknowledged by diehard fans, primarily because it's rarely ever attempted and otherwise rarely done right. Some outliers in level design style such as Serious Sam and Devil Daggers get a lot of unjustified flak for mostly taking place on flat spaces and not having "good level design", even though "good level design" in this case implies "traditional 90's level design", and trying to cram that style into Serious Sam and Devil Daggers would result in many enemy designs and gameplay systems being broken and made redundant, and changing those to suit the "good level design" would instead net you an entirely different game, which couldn't be seriously called either an improvement or deterioration.

    Yet here, in a game released a year before the Doometeor hit, lies the seed out of which an entire unexplored subgenre of first-person shooters could sprout. But almost nobody's ever heard of this game, and almost nobody is even trying to make something akin to an arcade-style first-person shooter. While I'm glad that most indie developers are realizing that beating the roguelite horse to death does not make your infinitely replayable game infinitely fun and that randomizing everything in an FPS results in a lot of skill being thrown out of the window, if the most anticipated FPS releases of 2018 are in a wave of Early Access 'retro throwback shooters' with little in the way of innovation, then that's just going to send the wrong message to aspiring developers until people finally tire of these too. And even the recent AAA releases were conceptually interesting too, the first person to actually refine Doom (2016)'s formula into something good could be crowned the person to kickstart the FPS-Robotron subgenre, and Titanfall 2 showed that first-person platforming can actually be done right, and that it doesn't need to involve instant death pits everywhere. Hell High and DESYNC do seem interesting, but both give me eyecancer.

    Now suppose what would happen in this decrepit gay genre if someone were to make the first-person equivalent of Alien Soldier or Sin & Punishment.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2018
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  16. PulsatingBrain Huge and Ever-Growing Patron

    PulsatingBrain
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    Currently replaying RAGE and the Dragon Age series. I think RAGE gets more hate than it deserves, the Scorchers DLC was worth it for the Rebar Gun alone.
     
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  17. janior Arcane

    janior
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    I tried Fallout 1 myself recently and I couldn't. Limp piece of fucking garbage.
     
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  18. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
    Joined:
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    Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    :avatard:
     
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  19. PulsatingBrain Huge and Ever-Growing Patron

    PulsatingBrain
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    Playing Dragon Age Origins at the minute, I thimed things out pretty poorly and ended up spending about 7 hours in the fucking fade over the last 2 days :badnews:
     
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  20. MoistCloister Savant

    MoistCloister
    Joined:
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    Did you mean the boss rush aspect of Alien Soldier, or perhaps the dashing movement, because I'm genuinely puzzled by this and the mention of Sin & Punishment.
    When you mention Alien Soldier the first FPS that comes to mind is Bulletstorm( although a true 3D equivalent would be Vanquish ).
     
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  21. Durandal Arcane

    Durandal
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    I guess I was a little vague there, I was more referring to an imaginary first-person shooter with the structure of an arcade game under an hour long which focuses less on exploration and more on constant action and iterating on the main mechanics of the game in as many ways imaginable. The sheer variety in the boss fights of Alien Soldier and S&P and the different ways they challenged your knowledge and skill of your given toolset are great examples of this, though the stages outside the bosses are also very good too. I guess Vanquish and Bulletstorm do come kind of close to that, though they suffer from some unnecessary AAA-itis time to time.
     
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  22. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Beat Red Faction about a month ago. It was an ok FPS, but nothing special. Not something I'll ever replay again tbh. I remember playing it on PS2 and rage quitting one part. It's funny how anyone even plays FPS games on console. It was hard for me even back when I was gaming actively. Thankfully, KB and mouse allowed me to beat this one.


    Just beat Grand Theft Auto Vice City. It was bretty good. I still like San Andreas more, but this one was very enjoyable. I mean it had some of the same janky gameplay as the original GTA3 of course. The missions were ok and the atmosphere was ok and the music was p. good. I just didn't get enough of that Miami vibe. Hard to put my finger on it. The Cuban and Haitian mission felt a bit generic compared to the flavor of the San Andreas game. I felt like I was just playing a reskinned GTA 3 versus a different game. But hey, I liked it more than GTA 3 so there's that. And ofc it has some tweaks to gameplay like driving motorcycles and jumping from a vehicle while driving. The end mission wasnt as retarded as the first game, but it took me a dozen playthoughs to finally beat it. Was fun. Might go back some day and 100% it.

    The main issue I had was the grinding of trying to make money to buy those properties at the end. I felt that was stupid. I was ready for the game to end at hour 18 but it took me a total of 23 hours to finally beat it. So like 6 hours of it I was mostly bored and wanting it to end.

    Still, I'd recommend it.

    Gonna play Ys I next. Never tried any of the games in the series, but it looks p. good.
     
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  23. bloodlover Arcane

    bloodlover
    Joined:
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    1,891
    I bought TR Anniversary, Legend and Underworld on the recent Steam sale and I started playing Underworld first. I think that I was supposed to play them in some order for the story to make sense but playing Tomb Raider for the story... yeah.

    Underworld is a fun game, it looks nice and I like how Lara is very flexible now. (not in THAT way your perverts). This leads to some interesting puzzles and exploring. The camera sometimes tends to get you killed but it's really not that big of a deal as most people claim it is. I think I died 5 times in 12 hours of gameplay so far and twice it was from the camera angles. What I don't like about the game is that after finishing a level I have to manually go back at the start for the story to continue, or when I solve some puzzle that requires moving or climbing I have to go back to the original spot which means doing the same thing again. It feels like a drag after some time and it;s quite annoying when it involves driving that damn motorcycle around.

    I think I should have bought the old games too but maybe in the future. I can't marathon these games anymore, especially on a PC and playing with a keyboard but replaying Tomb Raider 2 should bring back many good memories.


    In between TR, I am playing Divine Divinity. This one is more addictive even though I am not far into the game. Will keep you updated.
     
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  24. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
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    The Fade is such a notoriously bad part of the game that there are mods out there that lets you skip it in its entirety. You go in, and then you jump to the next section after with all of the goodies that you'd get in there (about 21 stat points).

    I am currently mucking around with Warlock 2. I may return to Fallout Tactics in a bit, but I am catching a writing bug, so that might fall by the wayside.
     
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  25. PulsatingBrain Huge and Ever-Growing Patron

    PulsatingBrain
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
    Fuck. I really wish I'd known that :stunned:
     
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