In my experience, if you wipe out the soldiers at the southern base, later on they launch a Spetsnaz raid and wipe out all the stalkers in Cordon.
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What game are you wasting time on?
- Thread starter Trash
- Start date
Ezeekiel
Liturgist
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Wait, seriously?
I don't think I've ever noticed that before, but then I don't remember the details of the first game too well anymore. Always took out whatever military types I could and never thought about it again.
Yep, the trigger happens after a few ingame days though.
Ezeekiel
Liturgist
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- Dec 19, 2016
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Wow, they thought of that, huh.
Can you intercept the attackers or at least fight them in the basecamp? Or do the stalkers just fall over and die due to a script?
I don't think it's a script. The Military spawn on the southern outpost and attack the village. You can intercept them if you wait around long enough. At least that's how I imagine STALKER AI works in the games (I could be wrong though). I've personally never noticed any scripts where NPCs just die with no reason at all.
ColonelTeacup
Liturgist
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How would they know you did it and not freedom or someone else? Especially if you left no witnesses?
Cael
Arcane
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- Nov 1, 2017
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Like in Ankh-Morpork, the night has a thousand eyes, and you only have 499 bullets... :D
laclongquan
Arcane
standard policy: if you dont know who did it, just kill the nearest neutral/hostile lair. This one is no lawful land.
ColonelTeacup
Liturgist
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Good point. Damnded snitches. Probably did it for half a bottle of vodka.
Military is just going to make a lot of enemies they won't be able to handle in that case. Especially if one lone stalker can wipe them out.
Ninjerk
Arcane
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- 14,323
The last time I played I happened to be around the base camp when the raid happened and the stalkers actually fight for quite a long time. It's a really cool moment if you're not expecting it.
HansDampf
Arcane
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Interesting. There seems to be a lot more reactivity than I anticipated. I went to steal some documents from that military base in the south. They didn't see me, but they should notice that the documents are missing. Should I expect an attack when I return later?
laclongquan
Arcane
My problem with pure melee is that you have too simplified gameplay. You dont have to worry about different kind of consumables like ammo. you can not use much tactic other than kiting: lure some out of their concentrated area into your area with some LineOfSight cover. If you are in a wide area, or much hostiles, you are pretty screwed.
With enemy toting M2 Browning, you are dead meat to crits.
Latro
Arcane
playing old handheld/console-shit atm
- DQ3 GBC: Still a great game, and the intro quiz is better written than most crpgs. very little BS story-shit here, goes straight into the game.
- castelvania: CoTM GBA: Still the best metroid-vania.
- Last Bible II GBC: SMT for Gameboy. Actually pretty good. Was gonna breeze through it just so I can play LB III for SNES, but this is way better than I thought it was gonna be.
- DQ3 GBC: Still a great game, and the intro quiz is better written than most crpgs. very little BS story-shit here, goes straight into the game.
- castelvania: CoTM GBA: Still the best metroid-vania.
- Last Bible II GBC: SMT for Gameboy. Actually pretty good. Was gonna breeze through it just so I can play LB III for SNES, but this is way better than I thought it was gonna be.
Latro
Arcane
AH'LL SEE YOU IN VALHALLA
Cael
Arcane
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- 21,990
The fun is balancing melee with being able to complete the game. No point creating a melee monster and saving all the bullets and then get mown down in St Louis.
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Update on me playing Auf Wiedersehen Monty: After finally being able to get decent Spectrum and C64 emulators up and running, I had a chance to try out these versions and compare them to the Amstrad.
Here are screenshots of the three versions for quick comparison:
Spectrum:
Amstrad:
C-64:
The Spectrum version, having a limited color palette, is forced to use garish colors but at least the sprites look decent enough. It also doesn't have any slowdowns when there are too many enemies on-screen.
The Amstrad has lots of colors, but at a slight cost to graphic fidelity. Its biggest downside is the noticable speed drop when there are more than two moving enemies on-screen.
The C-64 version opts for something similar to the Spectrum version: Few colors but crisp graphics, and without looking so garish and no drops in speed either.
It's when it comes to the audio when the three versions set themselves apart. The Spectrum only plays sound effects unless you have a 128k computer, in which case a part of the game's theme is played on the title screen.
The Amstrad plays a more complete version of the title theme... constantly and incessantly, but somehow manages to squeeze the sound effects in there as well.
But it's the C-64 where the audio shines. There you get the complete version of the theme played on the amazing SiD chip AND have the option to turn the main theme off (press F7 on the title screen) and have the game play sound effects (and national anthems) instead.
So of the "big three" 8-bit platforms (AWM was released on other platforms) I'd recommend the C-64 version. Now to see if I can actually beat the game without cheating...
While doing the above, I also took a brief look at two games related to AMW that most of you should be familiar with:
VVVVVV is a modern take on the 8-bit platformer concept, which AWM most certainly falls under. It also strikes the perfect balance between having old-school gameplay and modern-day amenities, meaning the focus is on the gameplay being fun (but tough) and not letting petty details get in your way. It's easily one of the top games of 2010.
In stark contrast to all of that is La Mulana. Originally released in 2005, a 2012 remake is what most people are accustomed to nowadays and is another attempt at a "modern" take on the 8-bit platformer. Except where VVVVVV keeps everything simple and streamlined, La Mulana goes out of its way to be convoluted in almost every regard. Everyone that has played it know exactly what I mean - it's not some one big issue, but lots of little ones. Like the idea that you can jump/fall off a ladder whenever you wish... that's not an option in this game (getting knocked off the ladder by a baddie is, however). This is something almost every platformer ever made had figured out ages ago. I found myself spending more time battling the game itself rather than battling the puzzles and obstacles it throws at me. I know La Mulana is purposefully made to be hard, but it does so in the stupidest way possible.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: There's a reason why so many "game design ideas" of the past have been left there: No one likes them. The author of VVVVVV gets that, the author of La Mulana doesn't. Now wonder which game is getting a sequel and realize just how fucked up the game industry really is. (On the upside, both games have amazing soundtracks.)
Here are screenshots of the three versions for quick comparison:
Spectrum:
Amstrad:
C-64:
The Spectrum version, having a limited color palette, is forced to use garish colors but at least the sprites look decent enough. It also doesn't have any slowdowns when there are too many enemies on-screen.
The Amstrad has lots of colors, but at a slight cost to graphic fidelity. Its biggest downside is the noticable speed drop when there are more than two moving enemies on-screen.
The C-64 version opts for something similar to the Spectrum version: Few colors but crisp graphics, and without looking so garish and no drops in speed either.
It's when it comes to the audio when the three versions set themselves apart. The Spectrum only plays sound effects unless you have a 128k computer, in which case a part of the game's theme is played on the title screen.
The Amstrad plays a more complete version of the title theme... constantly and incessantly, but somehow manages to squeeze the sound effects in there as well.
But it's the C-64 where the audio shines. There you get the complete version of the theme played on the amazing SiD chip AND have the option to turn the main theme off (press F7 on the title screen) and have the game play sound effects (and national anthems) instead.
So of the "big three" 8-bit platforms (AWM was released on other platforms) I'd recommend the C-64 version. Now to see if I can actually beat the game without cheating...
While doing the above, I also took a brief look at two games related to AMW that most of you should be familiar with:
VVVVVV is a modern take on the 8-bit platformer concept, which AWM most certainly falls under. It also strikes the perfect balance between having old-school gameplay and modern-day amenities, meaning the focus is on the gameplay being fun (but tough) and not letting petty details get in your way. It's easily one of the top games of 2010.
In stark contrast to all of that is La Mulana. Originally released in 2005, a 2012 remake is what most people are accustomed to nowadays and is another attempt at a "modern" take on the 8-bit platformer. Except where VVVVVV keeps everything simple and streamlined, La Mulana goes out of its way to be convoluted in almost every regard. Everyone that has played it know exactly what I mean - it's not some one big issue, but lots of little ones. Like the idea that you can jump/fall off a ladder whenever you wish... that's not an option in this game (getting knocked off the ladder by a baddie is, however). This is something almost every platformer ever made had figured out ages ago. I found myself spending more time battling the game itself rather than battling the puzzles and obstacles it throws at me. I know La Mulana is purposefully made to be hard, but it does so in the stupidest way possible.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: There's a reason why so many "game design ideas" of the past have been left there: No one likes them. The author of VVVVVV gets that, the author of La Mulana doesn't. Now wonder which game is getting a sequel and realize just how fucked up the game industry really is. (On the upside, both games have amazing soundtracks.)
Black Plague
Arbiter
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- Sep 3, 2016
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- 824
I'm pretty sure Spectrum doesn't even have sprites.
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- May 13, 2009
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- 28,545
I'm pretty sure Spectrum doesn't even have sprites.
That would obviously be My Bad if that's true. I'm not as familiar with Spectrum hardware as I should be.
Just finishing up Dragon Age Origins, and a few hours into Rogue Warrior. Rogue Warrior is so try-hard edgy that it loops right back around from cringey into great again. It's just SO over the top. I'm really enjoying it. The gameplay itself is average though. I paid like £3 and feel like I definitely got my money's worth
After going through the original 2000 release I got an AvP itch which AvP 2 couldn't scratch (for obvious reasons), so I settled with the new AvP Derp Edition instead. I rarely play modern shooters and I was reminded yet again why that is. Goddamn this game. Everything that is wrong with modern shooters and games in general rolled into one neat package. Good visuals? Sure but it's all shallow. You have awkward try-hard voice acting, bare-bones AI, non-threatening xenomorphs, kill animations which ironically will get YOU killed simply because they take a fucking age to play out. It's all so goddamn cinematic, isn't it? Like it's a movie - a bad movie. Clunky hit detection (especially as the xenomorph), flat sound design, undeserved audio cues from the movies, cheap scripting and a plot that is so railroaded you'll get fucking tunnel vision. The game offers three campaigns which let's you play the same five levels three times over with different characters. As a marine you can gather audio tapes lying around which features a bad voice actor speaking two or sometimes even three completely redundant sentences. That's it. Oh and if you take the time to actually explore the utterly flat levels you'll be hounded by some bitch over the radio nagging you to get back to the retarded plot, because that is the only thing that matters apparently. Play the game exactly the way the game developers has envisioned it. If you stray away from the beaten path you'll see so many cracks it's not even funny. The only value I garnered from this game was the predator campaign which sometimes offered some modicum of pleasure. Urgh. Seriously what is the fucking hold up on AvP 2?
Onward to lighter news and a pleasant surprise of sorts. Many of you will probably never have heard of Shattered Steel. It's a mech game from 1996. I got it for free on GOG a few years ago and it's been lying there in my library gathering dust ever since. I never thought much of it because of it's less than stellar reputation but a few weeks ago I finally sat down and started playing. Admittedly I had to go through a minor hell in order to get it running properly but when that was done I got a pretty decent mech game out of it. I say that as a complete noob, however. You have several different mechs to choose from in a partially branching campaign which revolves around you being hired by a big planetary mining corporation to fight off an alien invasion. While never revolutionary, it's still quite fun just shredding aliens with missiles, nukes, lasers and gatling guns. Although I had to settle for a mouse-and-keyboard setup simply because my Thrustmaster joystick just wouldn't play ball. The reason why this game might be especially noteworthy to some is that it's developed by BioWare and published by Interplay. Yeah, that whole gang. Also for some reason a few of the alien enemies sound like that spitting dinosaur from Jurassic Park. Which is kind of cool. Do I recommend this game to anybody? Probably not, considering that it's so niche and the fact that there are better mech games out there. However, I would never have expected to get this much worth from a game that was both free and is pretty much forgotten by everybody. It's a piece of gaming history that still has some merit.
Onward to lighter news and a pleasant surprise of sorts. Many of you will probably never have heard of Shattered Steel. It's a mech game from 1996. I got it for free on GOG a few years ago and it's been lying there in my library gathering dust ever since. I never thought much of it because of it's less than stellar reputation but a few weeks ago I finally sat down and started playing. Admittedly I had to go through a minor hell in order to get it running properly but when that was done I got a pretty decent mech game out of it. I say that as a complete noob, however. You have several different mechs to choose from in a partially branching campaign which revolves around you being hired by a big planetary mining corporation to fight off an alien invasion. While never revolutionary, it's still quite fun just shredding aliens with missiles, nukes, lasers and gatling guns. Although I had to settle for a mouse-and-keyboard setup simply because my Thrustmaster joystick just wouldn't play ball. The reason why this game might be especially noteworthy to some is that it's developed by BioWare and published by Interplay. Yeah, that whole gang. Also for some reason a few of the alien enemies sound like that spitting dinosaur from Jurassic Park. Which is kind of cool. Do I recommend this game to anybody? Probably not, considering that it's so niche and the fact that there are better mech games out there. However, I would never have expected to get this much worth from a game that was both free and is pretty much forgotten by everybody. It's a piece of gaming history that still has some merit.
- Joined
- May 13, 2009
- Messages
- 28,545
Holy shit.
Holy fucking shit.
How insane 1980s developers were, Part the 301st: As mentioned earlier, there's a game out there with one of the most bone-headed, pants-on-head stupid game mechanics for progression I've seen to date.
Remember how I said Trial and Error was a vital ingredient in padding out 1980s games? I think I've found the game that takes it to the extreme (without resorting to random stuff).
I present to you Auf Wiedersehen Monty's prequel: Monty on the Run.
Released in 1985, it was yet another 2D platformer and followed the Monty Mole rule of "easy to get into, bloody hard to master". I find it to be harder than Auf Wiedersehen Monty, as getting through each individual screen is harder than in AWM. But that's not the problem. I'm just gonna quote the relevant part of the manual so that you can see the problem for yourselves:
Read the last paragraph again if you don't get it. Picking the items for the freedom kit happens on the title screen, at the start of the game. If you go into this game blind then you're fucked, as you'll be forced to first identify where you should go no further, then restart the game and guess which of the 21 items can get you past that point. Now repeat that four more times. Combine that with the 'normal' elements of the game (screens after screens of difficult platforming) and you get the idea of how utterly stupid this is, especially since this never changes, it's always the same five items.
Note that this isn't like selecting five useful items to take along with you in an open-world environment. This is 1985. You can only use these items in that one specific place, for that one specific purpose, and the game does everything automatically once you reach that place. You can't just pick the Laser Gun and shoot all the baddies. For all sakes and purposes this is a combination lock. For a video game.
You want to apply logic to try to guess them? Only one of the 21 items screams at you to be taken along, considering the game's name, theme and objective... and even then there are Red Herrings in there to make even that selection difficult. If you happen to have access to a map of the game, careful scrutiny of it may reveal another needed item... plus a couple of related Red Herrings. Otherwise it's all down to good ol' fashioned Trial and Error, or as it's better known in Game Design today, Throwing Bodies At The Problem Until It Goes Away. Absolutely despicable.
It should come as no surprise that a list of the correct five items for MotR's freedom kit is among the most reader-submitted tips to gaming mags of the mid-1980s. This is Essential Information for playing the game, and shaves off several hours of game time. Even then you're still left with the challenge of getting through each of the game's 48 screens in one piece, and figuring out what each in-game item does and how it can help you.
This was a stupid thing back in the 1980s, and it's still stupid today. Anyone trying to pull off something similar now will get laughed at or ridiculed, but game designers aren't known for being smart so there's still a chance we may see something like this again.
As closure, I'm gonna post the thing Monty on the Run is most famous for: It's kick-ass title theme. This is one of the biggest reasons why Rob Hubbard is considered a musical genius. Listen through the whole of it, it goes off into riffs and to places you wouldn't expect:
Holy fucking shit.
How insane 1980s developers were, Part the 301st: As mentioned earlier, there's a game out there with one of the most bone-headed, pants-on-head stupid game mechanics for progression I've seen to date.
Remember how I said Trial and Error was a vital ingredient in padding out 1980s games? I think I've found the game that takes it to the extreme (without resorting to random stuff).
I present to you Auf Wiedersehen Monty's prequel: Monty on the Run.
Released in 1985, it was yet another 2D platformer and followed the Monty Mole rule of "easy to get into, bloody hard to master". I find it to be harder than Auf Wiedersehen Monty, as getting through each individual screen is harder than in AWM. But that's not the problem. I'm just gonna quote the relevant part of the manual so that you can see the problem for yourselves:
Read the last paragraph again if you don't get it. Picking the items for the freedom kit happens on the title screen, at the start of the game. If you go into this game blind then you're fucked, as you'll be forced to first identify where you should go no further, then restart the game and guess which of the 21 items can get you past that point. Now repeat that four more times. Combine that with the 'normal' elements of the game (screens after screens of difficult platforming) and you get the idea of how utterly stupid this is, especially since this never changes, it's always the same five items.
Note that this isn't like selecting five useful items to take along with you in an open-world environment. This is 1985. You can only use these items in that one specific place, for that one specific purpose, and the game does everything automatically once you reach that place. You can't just pick the Laser Gun and shoot all the baddies. For all sakes and purposes this is a combination lock. For a video game.
You want to apply logic to try to guess them? Only one of the 21 items screams at you to be taken along, considering the game's name, theme and objective... and even then there are Red Herrings in there to make even that selection difficult. If you happen to have access to a map of the game, careful scrutiny of it may reveal another needed item... plus a couple of related Red Herrings. Otherwise it's all down to good ol' fashioned Trial and Error, or as it's better known in Game Design today, Throwing Bodies At The Problem Until It Goes Away. Absolutely despicable.
It should come as no surprise that a list of the correct five items for MotR's freedom kit is among the most reader-submitted tips to gaming mags of the mid-1980s. This is Essential Information for playing the game, and shaves off several hours of game time. Even then you're still left with the challenge of getting through each of the game's 48 screens in one piece, and figuring out what each in-game item does and how it can help you.
This was a stupid thing back in the 1980s, and it's still stupid today. Anyone trying to pull off something similar now will get laughed at or ridiculed, but game designers aren't known for being smart so there's still a chance we may see something like this again.
As closure, I'm gonna post the thing Monty on the Run is most famous for: It's kick-ass title theme. This is one of the biggest reasons why Rob Hubbard is considered a musical genius. Listen through the whole of it, it goes off into riffs and to places you wouldn't expect:
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Unkillable Cat Jesus Christ that's absurd
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