NWN2: a diplomatic character?

[Mr. Teatime]

I'm having the same problem I have with all DnD games. I want a character that's the best he can be at dialogue - talking, intelligent dialogue options, persuasive, etc (though intimidate is unnecessary). With a game like NWN2, I'm never sure what skills that translates into. Do I simply raise the Diplomacy skill to its highest? Or do I need high intelligence, wisom and charisma? It pretty much rules out any melee class as well. Anyone know how the game operates in this regard, and recommendations for classes/setups etc to get the most out of the game's dialogue?

 

[JrK]

You need to be a rogue with high cha, and possibly int. Max out on the talking skills. It will get you out of some situations, but not all, just like real life!

FYI, that still means you can be good at melee or even ranged combat. Just pick either one of strength+1lvl in warrior class or dex with weapon finesse.Make sure you're positioned so you can make sneak attack and watch the enemies fall, quickly.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

So any word on whether wisdom has much part to play in dialogue?

I was thinking of a bard character. Just need to know what skills affect dialogue options. Intelligence, charisma, diplomacy etc?

 

[Jasede]

Look, Wisdom is important, too. You will never get all dialogue options in D&D because you NEED WIS, INT and CHA for that. I'd set WIS/CHA/INT to 14 and then go fighter/rogue. You will suck... but rogues are uber, so you might just be able to fight well enough to survive.

 

[Monica21]

Look, Wisdom is important, too. You will never get all dialogue options in D&D because you NEED WIS, INT and CHA for that. I'd set WIS/CHA/INT to 14 and then go fighter/rogue. You will suck... but rogues are uber, so you might just be able to fight well enough to survive.

Why are rogues uber? I'm not familiar enough with D&D rules to know. My only experience has been playing NWN (which I'm currently replaying until I get NWN2).

 

[JrK]

So any word on whether wisdom has much part to play in dialogue?

I was thinking of a bard character. Just need to know what skills affect dialogue options. Intelligence, charisma, diplomacy etc?

Bard will be excellent for this type of character. Use decent cha, get yourself a nice int so you won't spill all your skillpoints on the talking skills, and you're off. I haven't seen any wisdom checks in dialog but I've seen a LOT of intimidate, bluff, diplomacy and even lore. Maybe there are some int checks but I suspect the statchecks are pulled into the skills. Don't worry about the combat skills, as long as you specialize in either ranged combat or melee you'll do fine, especially when used tactically to support the fighters you'll be getting early. Also, the bard can cast, so expect to use that as well. Nothing nicer than a well-placed sleep. :wink:

 

[Bradylama]

I'm no D&D expert, but if you have to have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, wouldn't it be better to play as a Wizard or Sorcerer? Or is it that Rogues get more skill points?

 

[tigermonkey]

Here's what I did...

You can make a "diplomatic" character in NWN2: I made a Paladin (which has to have a high CHA anyway for some of his abilities), gave him a 16 CHA; his skill in Diplomacy is 8 or 9, at the moment. You could optimize that even further: there is a background feat you can take at lvl 1 which will give you a +2 to Diplomacy.

As it stands now, I have actually been able to talk my way out of about 50% of the scripted combats that have come along so far (with a higher success rate among other scripted events), by using the Diplomacy option (because of the alignment restrictions for Paladins, I don't want to do anything "non-do-gooder" meaning I'm not picking the Bluff or Intimidate or Lie options...).

Wisdom has presented an option every now and then, but it's infrequent. If you're making a "diplomat", you will most likely want to focus on CHA; then pick Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate, and put as many skill points as you can in that skill at each level (you could pick more than 1, but you really only need 1 to succeed when the option is given to you).

(You can also take feat that will allow a skill focus on Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimidate, for another +2 to the roll; I believe there are other non-background feats which will also add a bonus to those CHA skills.)

I find it helpful to pick characters which are already going to need a high amount of CHA: bards, sorcerers, or paladins. You could do Rogue (a great option for the skillmonkey-type character), but with those characters you will want to prioritize DEX before CHA, at least for this game.

I hope that helps some.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I'm playing a Diplomatic character with my Paladin at the moment, opting typically for "Lawful" or "Good" dialogue. It's working out good, so far. I've failed at some diplomacy related dialogues so I assume that a Bard or Rogue will probably be a lot better at that.

It's pretty neat how the game's alignment system isn't the atrocious "postive vs negative reputation" crap you got with Baldur's Gate. It's like Planescape: Torment, in fact.

Besides Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate, other skills also come into play during dialogue, through rarely - like Lore.

 

[Volourn]

No. Moron. It's like NWN1. Dumbass.

 

[Jasede]

Oh, look, I am from an RP server. Making characters with stats in the 16 or even 18 range is considered uber-munchkin and will get you banned. The OP was asking for the most diplomatic character possible. IMHO, that includes as many dialogue options as possible. And to get them, frankly, you need INT, CHA and WIS, set to 15 or 14 each.

That would net you stats of 12/12/12/14/14/14. Now you could go wiz, but that's stupid because you won't get high level spells. Or you could go sorc, but again, that's unwise. Same for druid and cleric. Paladin might just work, but if you want all diplomatic skills, you need a lot of skill points. If you make that character a human rogue, he will get them and many dialogue options. Drawback: your Dex is low. Fix: Fighter level, then wear armor and a greatsword. -> damage, protection, and all the diplomatic skills you would want. Toss in a paladin level for lulz.

Rogues are overpowered in low levels because of Dirty Fighting. Rogue + martial weapons + sneak Attack + dirty fighting + 14 strength + greatsword = uber.
That would be 2d6 + 4 to 7 damage, +xd6 with a sneak attack. You will regularly deal 6 - 19 damage on level 1, not counting a sneak attack which makes it 7-25.

 

[Sol Invictus]

It's not very RPish to have a Paladin/Rogue multiclass character unless you start off as a Paladin, fall from the Lawful Good alignment and become a Rogue later.

 

[Jasede]

That's why I said "for lulz".

 

[Voss]

Making a character with good stats is a bad thing?

Isn't it just as 'non-RP' (for an odd... value of RP) to be concerned with not maxing a character as it is to max it? Either way you're worried more about the stats than the character.

 

[Jasede]

Good point, actually. But explain that to the nazi DMs. You are basically right, though. D&D wouldn't be the same if 18 STR wouldn't exist. Still, it's seen as bad form to have a stat in the 18 or two at 16 because, well, 18 is simply very, very improbable and 14 is already much higher than average.

Still, very good point, Voss. On my server, players are encouraged to spend their stat points according to their background, not the other way around. I played a very successful INT 12 wizard who was some sort of Rincewind.

 

[Inziladun]

Well I'm playing a Ranger, got a 12 in Charisma, 14 in wisdom and around 8 in Diplomacy(It's not a class skill). I've seen many Diplomacy checks and a [Bluff/Wisdom] or [Intimidate/Wisdom] has cropped up a few times along with the standard [Intimidate] and [Bluff] checks that I can rarely succeed in. I've also received a few unmarked dialouge that hinted at my Wisdom level and my Class. Not all too much of a sweet talker, but i've gotten out of a good share of situations using a silver tongue. But as it stands now (a little bit into Act 2) I can see the diplomacy checks harder and harder to pass. I don't think i'll be able to keep up at the rate i'm leveling.

Also beware that there are 'fake' checks. I've spotted about 3 fake diplomacy checks alone, (IE: I kept reloading but I could never succeed after 6 tries)

 

[Norfleet]

Still, very good point, Voss. On my server, players are encouraged to spend their stat points according to their background, not the other way around. I played a very successful INT 12 wizard who was some sort of Rincewind.

I don't realy think int 12 and wizard go together. That's like a one-legged man at an ass-kicking contest. If you're going to spread stats like that, logic dictates that one would probably have pursued a more balanced career.

 

[Jasede]

No, it suited the background perfectly. Poor guy who desperately wanted to be wizard, but simply lacked the talent. He tried time and again, against all advice... Well, what can I say, a mindflayer sucked the rest of his brains out one day.

Never met guys like that IRL? They desperately want to become singers or artists, take classes, practice... and still, their art is utter crap. They won't listen to the voice of reason until they get that wisdom forcefully shoved down their throats.

 

[Norfleet]

Hmm, no, can't say I personally have, but then, in my line of work, people like that tended to meet the business end of natural selection very quickly. I find the particular thought process that would promote such thinking to be fundamentally alien and incomprehensible.

 

[JrK]

It's not very RPish to have a Paladin/Rogue multiclass character unless you start off as a Paladin, fall from the Lawful Good alignment and become a Rogue later.

Go away with your prejudices. Not all rogues are lying sneaking stealing thieves. Some of them are diplomats, some of them are agents, some of them are just real good adventurers. It doesn't disallow the possibility to multiclass to paladin.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

Well I'm thinking of being a bard - don't much care for bluff/intimidate, but i'll definately max diplomacy. Maybe bluff if there's room left.
it's the more vague main atrributes i'm unsure about - int, char, wis. They are all unclear as to what sort of dialogue options I'll get, but I assume max charisma (since bard uses it a lot) and then divide up the remainder into int and wis equally.
Or is making one of the stats maxed, ie 18, a bit pointless?
I feel that I miss out half the game if I don't get the interesting and varied dialogue options.

 

[Texas Red]

Warlocks are an excellent class for smooth talkers. They are charisma based and have intimidate and bluff as their class skill. However, they have something that other classes lack. An invocation that you can get at 2nd level boosts all of the "talky" skills by 6 and lasts for 24 hours. Heck, I can even diplomacy my way out only because of this invocation and my high charisma. And I havent even invested in it!

I rarely fail.

 

[EEVIAC]

Good point, actually. But explain that to the nazi DMs. You are basically right, though. D&D wouldn't be the same if 18 STR wouldn't exist. Still, it's seen as bad form to have a stat in the 18 or two at 16 because, well, 18 is simply very, very improbable and 14 is already much higher than average.

The best piece of advice I've ever read on this matter was in Cyberpunk 2020 : "We could, at this point, warn prospective Referees about the various dodges player will have for creating "supercharacters." But face it, if they want to create a mondo character, who are we to stop them. You're all big boys and girls now, and if you, as Referee, think your players are getting way outa line, why not just go ahead and waste 'em?

That's the Cyberpunk way."

Obviously hosing players fairly is going to be more difficult in a CRPG than it is in PnP, but the sentiment still stands.

 

[denizsi]

As it stands now, I have actually been able to talk my way out of about 50% of the scripted combats that have come along so far (with a higher success rate among other scripted events), by using the Diplomacy option (because of the alignment restrictions for Paladins, I don't want to do anything "non-do-gooder" meaning I'm not picking the Bluff or Intimidate or Lie options...).

My knowledge about DnD is limited to computer games but so far, I believe the whole alignment system and DnD's take on Paladin class to be completely retarded. Even if it's not, all the deities are just stupid arrogant pricks (or at least supposedly the "good" deities) and alignment directives are incredibly materialistic, because it absolutely makes no sense to me that a Paladin simply can not bluff, lie or intimidate just to save a dire the situation without "falling from grace", even with no harm intended. I mean, it just can not be without exceptions.

Reminds me of some cartoon I've watched when I was 11. Some pirates take this 'good' captain and his staff hostage and force them to tell the location of some treasure. Apparently, the captain can not lie due to some moral issues, so he tells them where the "treasure chest" is and by the time things have been resolved, he cockily goes around about how smart he was about misleading the pirates without lying. Just retarded.

 

[Drakron]

Actually, no ... in 3rd ed. that ended (there is no longer a Paladin code as it was in 2nd ed AD&D) but their aligment is LG, any paladin that lies is stepping into the Neutral grounds of the Law/Chaos axis.

That is why they would not lie, because its against their aligment.

And you can complain all you want but Paladins are supposed to be a uber class were the drawback is how they must conduct thenselves, if Paladins could do whatever they wanted the class sould be revised to be less uber.

In short, you cannot have your cake and eat it too ...