Savegame limitations?

[Red Hexapus]

Nowadays I try to play without save-scumming and go with the flow of the decisions I've made, unless the game is "brutal as fuck" (Underrail...) or there is a full-party wipe.

As for limiting saving options, why not let the player playing the game decide himself. His game, his options - that's what I think.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

As for limiting saving options, why not let the player playing the game decide himself. His game, his options - that's what I think.

for the same reason I oppose putting a cheat menu right in front of the player's face and designing the game around using the cheat menu

 

[Darth Canoli]

Savegames limitations on RPG games are fine.

As long as there isn't any on real RPG, it's all good, go play your RPG games and fuck-off.

 

[Grunker]

RPG games

And so the Codex fell into darkness

 

[Trojan_generic]

people claim they hate savegame limitations until they actually play a game with one and realize it makes the overall game better
nobody on the codex complained about KCD having savegame limitations

There was a mod to go around the limitation. That said, it did not work in my version anymore when I played it 1-2 years after release.

 

[Gargaune]

The save/load feature isn't and shouldn't be part of the game experience, it's part of the medium and limiting it is like gluing a book's pages or removing track markers from an album. I installed the savegame mod for Kingdom Come: Deliverance before I even clicked New Game and the only downside is now my browser keeps telling me that Dan Vavra wants to know my location.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The save/load feature isn't and shouldn't be part of the game experience,

Correct, which is why your choices shouldn't be able to be undone once they're chosen by using load cheats.

 

[thesecret1]

I think it depends on what the game is designed around. If your game is meant to be a battle of attrition through many challenges, like in most PnP games, and you designed your game around it, then by all means, prevent save scumming. If, on the other hand, the only thing such prevention achieves is forcing the player to backtrack 10 minutes to shop to restock on potions after he fucked up during a battle, then come back and continue where he left off, fully healed, then what's even the point? To waste people's time?

From another angle, it is true that facing the threat of loss of progress makes for a much more intense experience, but on the other hand, actually losing it then serves as a powerful impulse to simply drop the game – again, the game's design needs to focus on highlighting the former and mitigating the latter if the game is to be successful.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

codex playing an rpg

 

[BING XI LAO]

I like combat to be hard enough that I lose half the boss fights the first five times or so, as well as occasionally get instagibbed by randos while exploring.
Reloading until you figure out how to beat something is fun.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I think it depends on what the game is designed around. If your game is meant to be a battle of attrition through many challenges, like in most PnP games, and you designed your game around it, then by all means, prevent save scumming. If, on the other hand, the only thing such prevention achieves is forcing the player to backtrack 10 minutes to shop to restock on potions after he fucked up during a battle, then come back and continue where he left off, fully healed, then what's even the point? To waste people's time?

From another angle, it is true that facing the threat of loss of progress makes for a much more intense experience, but on the other hand, actually losing it then serves as a powerful impulse to simply drop the game – again, the game's design needs to focus on highlighting the former and mitigating the latter if the game is to be successful.

"if your game is designed around savescumming then taking it away will suck"
no shit
that's the entire point: games suck because they're designed around cheating

 

[Zibniyat]

There's nothing wrong with being able to save anywhere, anytime. It's up to the player to make a conscious decision on whether he will "savescum" or not. I find it pretty disturbing that players with no restraint or willpower to go through with their choices now express their desire to take away the ability to choose (whether to save or not) from everyone else. No, the problem aren't the games nor the possibility to save at any time. The problem is you. For yourself. And possibly others if for some retarded reason developers start listening to you.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

There's nothing wrong with being able to save anywhere, anytime. It's up to the player to make a conscious decision on whether he will "savescum" or not. I find it pretty disturbing that players with no restraint or willpower to go through with their choices now express their desire to take away the ability to choose (whether to save or not) from everyone else. No, the problem aren't the games nor the possibility to save at any time. The problem is you. For yourself. And possibly others if for some retarded reason developers start listening to you.

"just because designers design games around my cheating habit doesn't mean you get to criticize me cheating!"

yeah ok

 

[Gargaune]

Correct, which is why your choices shouldn't be able to be undone once they're chosen by using load cheats.

That's a nice story. Meanwhile, your lord and master, Sir Swen of Vincke, even lets you save mid-combat.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Correct, which is why your choices shouldn't be able to be undone once they're chosen by using load cheats.

That's a nice story. Meanwhile, your lord and master, Sir Swen of Vincke, even lets you save mid-combat.

And it's shit.
If you lose in combat those who got away should be finding someone to resurrect those who died, not using a meta-mechanic to go back and do it again until you get it right.

 

[Butter]

Correct, which is why your choices shouldn't be able to be undone once they're chosen by using load cheats.

That's a nice story. Meanwhile, your lord and master, Sir Swen of Vincke, even lets you save mid-combat.

Maybe if his games weren't turn-based, I'd be able to finish a combat in one sitting.

 

[Gargaune]

And it's shit.

There goes your Christmas bonus!

Maybe if his games weren't turn-based, I'd be able to finish a combat in one sitting.

Meryl Streep starring in Rusty's Choice, TB or savescumming.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You guys could try taking your ADHD meds prior to playing.

 

[kangaxx]

Harthwain it sounds as though Weird West is going to implement that kind of system.. i.e. decisions and actions are irreversible.

 

[Gargaune]

You guys could try taking your ADHD meds prior to playing.

No need, we can just reload.

 

[lukaszek]

no save scumming with determinism.
People save scum to have deterministic outcome in rng game

 

[DraQ]

Save game limitations are, outside some very rare cases, a concave-headed brainlet idea.
What we need is reloading limitations or preferably consequences.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

It depends on game design, but I prefer limited saves (or, at the very least, no saving in combat) with one exception: I think it would be nice to have the ability to create a temporary save if I have to quit the game to do RL shit.

That, or continuous saves like in Dark Souls, so whatever decisions have been made are irreversible.

I think the nice middle ground for this would be the addition of saving as a resource / in-game ritual to add another layer of resource management and possibly work that into the setting -- for example, each death is a drug-induced vision of the future that eventually drives the player character(s) crazy if the player tries to weasel his way through the game.

 

[Tyranicon]

My design philosophy is to give the player as many options as possible. I even include in-game cheats.

If they want to cheat, save-scum, whatever, they can go right ahead. If they want to ironman the game with a solo party at 12 hitpoints, they can do so.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

My design philosophy is to give the player as many options as possible. I even include in-game cheats.

If they want to cheat, save-scum, whatever, they can go right ahead. If they want to ironman the game with a solo party at 12 hitpoints, they can do so.

bro no offense, but you make porn games