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In Progress X-Piratez! Ironman! No spoilers! Oldschool X-COM Total Conversion with mutant amazon pirates. Death to the star gods!

Gumsmith

Educated
Joined
Feb 22, 2021
Messages
121
Highway house mission. These are supposed to be an early game means of getting vessel weapons. I skipped them though, because they're defended by this fucker.
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Grenades are the answer to this mission, stormrats can't handle it and the gun will die pretty quick as he's only a human. Still going to get shot up a bunch though, and god forbid the gun actually fires. Definitely one of those missions you want to do in the daytime so you can tell what's going on.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,368
Camo cats can just walk past enemies and throw a dynamite at the turret.

Stormrats and Highwaymen are both spotters but not snipers, so once you've taken down the gun the rest is pretty easy.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,368
It's important to do ASAP because it bootstraps you into being able to shoot things down, and shooting things down gives money, infamy and more ammo to shoot things down with (if you are shooting down bandits and stuff which fights back). Getting into the air combat game early is one of the big things to accelerate your development since early game traffic is really easy and loads you up on captures and engines.
 

Jaedar

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Messages
9,920
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
There's no guarantee that map spawn will be such that you can get to the cannon before it gets chance to snipe you through the bus windows or something.

I can see the merit in going in super hard to do this mission if you get it before you get craft weapons any other way, but you'd need some good rng for that (the mission requires capturing a ratman lieutenant to unlock, and only has a 60% monthly chance to trigger after that). The mission is not worth the risk just for the ammo imo.

If you go in with metagame info, it might be worth rushing it.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
You can capture a ratman lieutenant in a month 1 ratman rodeo.
Can yes, but, there is no guarantee you'll get it. Seems to be 2x28% chance first month, then 3x for the first 15 months (this seems waaay higher than how often the mission shows up in practice, but I do have a suspicion that there's something wrong with the rng) , and then 5% chance that the rats get replaced by zombies.

Iirc in my game they pretty much never popped, my earliest old save is in june 2601 and I have apparently not ran into a single ratman at that point. No idea if I was offered rodeos but decided not to go due to troop shortages.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,089
Stuff about the highwayman house and ratmen

From what I've seen, getting a lieutenant early is pretty viable; aside from the rodeos, they tend to show up in early game base raids pretty often and hang back until the end, making them easy captures. But I'm inclined to agree the mission probably isn't worth it. If you go at night, you're risking getting spotted by ratmen with excellent nightvision, or even just react firing at one and having it spot for the cannon. If you go during the day, you could very well spawn in such a way the cannon has line of sight on you to begin with and you get shot before even leaving the craft. It's just a huge risk. I agree getting air weapons early is huge, but I think going for the pirrhana ASAP is the way to do it. Jack's early missions are easy, and the ship he sells is fast and sidesteps the need to research vessels at a time when you've got a lot of other demands on your research. I do like the idea of using camo cats if you've got them early though.

Back to the action!

Cleavage and everyone below is the batch of freaks I recruited from. There were a couple with good reactions in there but they had terrible stats pretty much everywhere else. Masochist Slut was the one with the most HP actually, but it seems to have cut it down to the normal cap when I transformed her, unfortunately. Honestly, a bit disappointed with these for the amount of money spent. Yeah, you could theoretically get some good to awesome gals if you spent like, 20 million to recruit a hundred and sifted through them, but that's a big investment when you could just hire normal gals and train them a little longer.
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More fucking bomber ships floating around our HQ. I really need to get another fighter built so I can just tag team one of these thing next time it shows up.
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Well, that was simple. Definitely a relief to have that off the table, even if it didn't seem to be that big of a threat anyways. Not sure how that mechanic works honestly. I'd assumed it happened if you left an enemy base alone in a country or they did certain missions and weren't interrupted, but the whole thing is fairly opaque if you don't have decoder coverage everywhere and know where all the enemy bases are.
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Huh. Didn't expect that as a follow up.
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Anyways, we're still recovering from the previous missile strike. I'll feel much better once the SAM is up and running, at least.
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Building a reactor in the drug lab too. Not much of a drug lab at this point though; only one plantation left. Turns out I might need to make a base for that purpose too honestly; the bio suits use 500 sectoweed, which I can buy but would be very expensive. The love clinics use 600, there's just generally a high demand for the stuff. I'd like to mass produce cigars as well, they're a lot faster to use than the smokes for turning health into freshness, which will be useful for the Biosuits.
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Speaking of, it took some item juggling, but production on that has started. Still going to take over 2 days to finish. Quite the investment when you consider I had to make 2 unplugged power armour as well and use a lot of other resources.
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Hah! This is hilarious. I forgot to build one, but I'm totally planning on giving this to Lenneth when I get the chance, in case it can generate Traditional kills. Working underwater is actually pretty cool too, especially if I can use choking or electric damage down there, the lobsters and fishmen seem weak to it. Maybe on the next devil's reef mission? Ogres are going to be huge there too, being able to ignore the aquamen.
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We've got a different party to attend right now though!
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this is long overdue. The map deals constant chem damage like the Eridian culling, but on top of that has random gas clouds as well. It leaves visibility super fucked, and naturally the ghouls can see through it better than you. The map is doable if you gear for it specifically early on- smokey outfits, chem coats and so forth, with flame throwers to handle the ghouls and something for the blood hounds they have as well. But it's a nasty map for sure.
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Can't see anyone on turn one because they all spawn inside the buildings, usually on the upper levels too. I really hate this map. Oh yeah, and it's a 'no wide craft' mission, so get fucked if you wanted to do this early but can only send an airbus or something.
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Anyways, at this point it will be trivial. We've got shields that can effectively ignore the chem damage, exosuits and gas masks for the choking, and Syns that can punch holes in doors with giant boomerang throwing stars.
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Oh yeah, and the cybermages to see through all the crap and spot for us, without getting eaten by dogs.
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First dumbass to enter line of sight.
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The enemies here are a bit deceptive too; he has a magnum and others often have shotguns, but they're armed with chem ammo generally. Nasty surprise if you showed up in chainmail feeling invincible. They can use flamethrowers as well.
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Another enemy taks a shot from the window over here. I could have shot back, but elected to instead teach him why standing at a window on ground level is a bad idea when people with swords are nearby.
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Damn, it's such a long way around. If only there were some sort of device that could make a hole in the wall.
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I fucking love this gun. It's got the wall destroying powers of a fucking bomb without the collateral damage to the loot or allies.
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Luka runs up ahead to scout for more targets and gets found by someone with a chem shotgun.
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Meanwhile, in the central building we find the main reason we came here;
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These guys have tech we want. Fortunately they're very easy to take alive. They're even tougher than the normal ghouls, who already regen ~8 health per turn.
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Good chance for Maria to practice some kung-fu.
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Luka found one too.
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We even found a third in the building. I hauled them over here and was planning to make a hole in their prison and throw them in, but the bullet passed right through the wall instead and started a fire. So I figured 'fuck it, if bullets go through, I can throw them through too right?' Sure enough, it worked, though it was a little fiddly. Now they don't need a babysitter.
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This ghoul keeps getting back up, giving Optimist some nice target practice each turn.
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Another ghoul was over here on a walkway. I couldn't get a shot on him from underneath, but I could hit the floor he was standing on...
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I'd rather kill him with the sword anyways. :flamesaw:
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The ghouls also take like triple damage from fire, and aren't unbreakable morale wise. So this'd be a good place to use flame weapons. I brought firebolt wands.
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Lightbane working on that battlemage title. Voodoo skill actually seems to be the hardest stat to raise, honestly. Maybe I'm missing a good title for it, but the only ones I know of off the top of my head are battlemage (not a lot of good weapons for that) and Lawyer, which penalizes health on units that probably lack it already.

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This gun is the biggest danger here for sure. It's accuracy is balls and it can't fire twice in a turn, but if they get close enough... even Luka would probably die to ~600 chem damage in one round.
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Luckily this dumbass is trying to shoot our cybermages instead.
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Central building has a lot of floors, and most have this annoying layout where you need to do a big loop to explore them. Burning through that energy real fast...
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In the end though, it was a total victory.
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The mission is a good source of chem ammo if you haven't unlocked it yet, or are too lazy to make some. Most of this is crap, but chem rounds in a super magnum might be good for fucking up star god guardians. They're quick to fire and accurate at longish ranges.
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Other nice loot includes various medical junk (you can find the reteges fluid here, but we got shafted) and prisoners. Another castaway is always nice, and the smoothies are worth 100 tokens a piece for the MA. Saya is right around the corner now!
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I burned all our young ubers (we had 4) on spy missions, and they didn't last long, but they did bring back a skyforge book, which is nice.
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Ooh, reusable (presumably hefty) EMP damage? This is very tempting. I think I'll build this after all, though I was waiting to research tanks first. It'd be a nice way to use the peasants and soldiers like Jaedar, and an easy way to farm gal of steel on them on milk runs.
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Got a few of these from the jellyfish monsters. Seems pretty nice. If we'd gotten these way back when we first encountered them they'd have been a mainstay for quite a while I'm sure.
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Costs 6 morale and stun per swing, but with decent throwing it's ~60 damage and ignores a nice chunk of armour, bio damage is rare and powerful. This variant is especially good for captures. Maybe I'll throw it on one of the Syns. They can handle the morale loss and stun if I keep energy up. Though I could see this going horribly wrong if they reaction fire it like 8 times in one turn and knock themselves out.
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Hmm, not what I was expecting. Isn't fusion power a think I need that they have? Anyways, seems like the project is the thing to do, because fuck the star gods!
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Skyforge book was lame. I guess it doesn't matter much; I'm sure once I start that ninja war up we'll be swimming in captured engineers and ninja scrolls.
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Decided to teel the ES to fuck off. The price on the guns was frankly insulting and they don't seem to have interesting stuff anyways, just boring generic weaponry.
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Another high value target from socializing. No extra result from uncovering this one though, AFAICT.
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Dang, Battleships now. Where's my battleship, huh? You'd think I'd just steal one of the dozens of ships I captured completely intact. I think the only game's I've played that really respected that concept were Countdown to Doomsday and New Horizons. Both excellent games of a bygone era.
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Now, what goodies does this lead to? Admittedly, we already have a ton of medical tech finished thanks to other avenues, like the academy and our codex.
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Ooh, this is new though, and seems potentially important.
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That was actually all he had for us, at least for now. But ghoul experiments sound promising...
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Our suit is done! I did a check of it's recovery stats to make sure I wasn't missing some weird weakness here. The freshness loss is indeed very high, even with high bravery. Good thing we've got the herbalist cats and smokes for that problem. Otherwise... everything seems above board.
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Time to take it for a test drive. Just a shot down megapol cruiser to harvest some synthmuscle. Going to play with the vulcan cannon as well. Damned thing really is insanely heavy, even Lenneth can't actually wield it properly as an assassin after dropping her other gear. Should be close enough though. Masochist Slut has been transferred over to give the new suit it's test run, and I've consolidated a few other scattered hands as well, like the peasants and Orcinator. Time to try out all our new toys!
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Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
9,920
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
That's strange, I feel like I've always gotten a rodeo month 1 or 2
80% chance to get at least one in first 2 months, so it's not too surprising.
You'd think I'd just steal one of the dozens of ships I captured completely intact. I think the only game's I've played that really respected that concept were Countdown to Doomsday and New Horizons. Both excellent games of a bygone era.
Not being able to steal the ships kinda makes sense: They're probably locked with the same tech that prevents you from firing gauss/plasma. They don't have cloaking devices, so they'd get shot down. They probably won't fit in your hangars. But most importantly, they're really ugly.
I hope we get to see a downed/landed battleship at some point. It is a cool ufo layout. Damned hard to shoot down though.
 

std::namespace

Guest
we have been bamboozled
XMxBCc0.png

whats normalized stun? it cant be 0...1, that would make it irrelevant, which would be nice though

how many hellerium charms and demon skulls can you carry in a bio suit?

----------------------------------------
combat drugs
40 stun, 80 energy
-50 morale
-8 fresh
--------------------
crack
50 energy
+100 morale
-12 fresh
--------------------
cigar
-40 stun
+20 fresh

b a l a n c e d
----------------------------------------

if normalized stun is up to 100 and more in case of overstun, that means bio suit stops recovering hp (with 1 poisoner title too) when we go to sleep at about 80 hp... this would suck!

also if we go to sleep at 80 hp and half freshness, we are not waking up without help, need 4 hellerium charms at least
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,089
whats normalized stun? it cant be 0...1, that would make it irrelevant, which would be nice though
I think it might be. Or something close to it anyways. That's the same stat that's on normal gal outfits. I think it's just what causes overstun damage. Though the numbers for that don't pan out, unless it's just meant to be some weird slight extra damage on top of the normal 1 damage per triple your current hp in stun. As for loading the biosuit up with trinkets... it's got like no wearable slots, just the one jewelry. Not really worried about it though. We've got 120 bravery so morale checks are a joke, and we don't have enough TUs to go through energy very fast anyways, unless I give her a warhammer instead of a forceblade.

Anyways; behold the new toys!

Hehe, this gun is fun. Needs more ammo for that amount of weight though. 4 bursts is criminally low compared to the minigun's 10 or 12.
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Forgot being weirdgal lowers armour, kind of an anti-synergy with the biosuit, but certainly not a dealbreaker.
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Luka trying out the new tentacle. I like it! Good damage, makes fun sounds.
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Since her aim is garbage, I had to give Slut a weapon that can't miss. Apparently gas shells are kinda shit though; they don't propagate through these fences. Still situationally useful, but nothing like a real mortar.
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More practical use of the assassin suit: 109% accurate autofire with an SMG from a mile away. Nice.
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Despite being like 6 tiles away from the craft, Slut still managed to shoot it somehow. Fortunately she's immune to her own weaponry.
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Oh no! No shot! Whatever will we do?!
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Vulcan go brr.
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Despite being full of mostly obsolete tech, we still pulled in over half a million in sales off their weapons. 4 more slave lashers and sythnmuscle for the pile!
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Hmm, so we're an attempt to make an army to rival the star gods? Be careful what you wish for...
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An interesting item, but I'm having trouble imagining a good use for it. That freshness drain is brutal. You could recover the health you'd need to smoke away with a Syn or Biosuit... but Syns already have great recovery for those stats provided you didn't tank your freshness, and the Biosuit is more worried about freshness loss than gaining extra morale or whatever anyways. It's not like it recovers TUs past your cap. Maybe on like, a hermit outfit? Those don't suffer much from low freshness anyways. That kind of seems to be the point of this thing, is to let you hang around at low freshness without losing all morale and stuff. Just doesn't seem worth the costs. Also, if you fall asleep you'll drop your gear and be taking all penalties for 0 freshness without the benefits of this thing.
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Dang, it's got good stats. I want it even more now.
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I figured the biotank would be an actual tank after making the suit. Respectable defenses for sure.
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But the real kicker is that +180 health. You have to drive it with a peasant, but still, you're looking at a ~250 hp tank. No regen, sadly, but vehicles recover all health after a mission anyways.
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Yep, that's a bomb alright. Comparable AoE to the bombard shells with twice the damage and as plasma.
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And that's a heavy weapon. Damn. Toss 3 of these on the Kraken and it might be a match for some real nasty enemies.
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Biotank is much easier to produce than the suit, but still requires a ton of sectoweed. No gems needed though, so I can get one online fairly soon.
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This seems like a pretty bad weapon honestly, but I suppose it's neat to have a less lethal option on a tank.
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This is the real firepower though. With the tank's hp, it's a ~100 damage plasma gun with heavy autofire. Accuracy is lacking though, and the 1 freshness per shot is per bullet, not action. Not sure how to sustain that for very long.
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Huh, not what I expected. I also don't know how to use it; it's in the list but the Syns don't qualify apparently? Is it only for actual robots, rather than cyborgs or whatever the Syns are?
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Both this and the earlier Doctor X tech unlocked some new mission options. I think I'll go for this one first, since it sounds like it has more wealthy, helpless targets.
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Finally got her! And she's not a unit. Lame.
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So what does she do for us? Well... I can simply buy hostages now. This is actually kind of nice, provided you've got the cash to spare. Damn, that smuggler captain is worth so much. I regret failing to catch one in the early game now. Honestly not much here is tempting aside from maybe the reticulan elder or some merc soldiers.
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Realized the reason some of the gals can't be weirdgals or zombified; it's incompatible with the sun follower training. I figured it was preventing the nightshade one, but didn't expect it to block weirdgal too. A shame, it means we're kind of lacking options for zombies and weirdgals outside of Lenneth.
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This is a dumb way to use Luka, but I can't help it. I love this gun.
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Behold, the almighty Kraken Cannon! It's crap. The advertised self loading function didn't work at all. In retrospect, maybe it's in the wrong hand slot? It didn't mention anything about that but strikes me as the sort of thing that could get overlooked.
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New title for Lenneth.
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Another month gone by. Didn't get to the base raiding I was planning, but I think all the research we got done makes up for that handily. Also, our base maintenance has exploded with all the expensive new shit I've been making. Nothing we can't handle though.
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One of the myths I actually like; the black souvereign is a coin worth less than nothing.
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An easy pogrom popped up, and I'd like to harvest some demon essence so here we are.
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Finally found some of these guys. Good thing I waited for daylight.
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Seems like they turn back into pinkies when you knock them out? Lame.
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Honestly I didn't even take many guys alive to get the essence; I also wantd to farm titles and there were imps and a rocket launcher guy making things messy. Found a problem with the crystal skull; it seems to cause energy drain when it restores TUs. Kinda underwhelming in that case; hard to use it for much if you need a stockpile of like 500 energy to get a bunch of kills chained together. OTOH, I suppose if I just used a bunch of liquid cool on Luka we could do some extremely silly things. Maybe I'll test that theory on a base raid.
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Well, we got another young uber and a bit more essence. No imp though; I forgot we needed one for a hellfire wand.
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We did get some nice titles though. Lenneth needs 1 more Trad and 2 more Radical for that fusion training I believe.
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This... is apparently just a mechanics tip? Lame, it took a lot to research for something with no tangible benefit.
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Free mad gnome arrived! The masterblaster outfit is a bit obsolete now though with the vindicator armour. It'd enable some really good voodoo, but I'm not sure that's worth the fragility.
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Got around to this as well.
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This is... interesting but also not useful. Maybe it can be studied more to unlock stuff?
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I guess the Provost is the last of the VIPs we need to catch?
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Well, we still got primal hunts on the menu! Time to cook some frogs.
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Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
9,920
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
we have been bamboozled
XMxBCc0.png

whats normalized stun? it cant be 0...1, that would make it irrelevant, which would be nice though
From the openXcom documentation
Possible keywords to use in the formulaes include:

  • flatOne, flatHundred, strength, psi, psiSkill, psiStrength, throwing, bravery, firing, health, tu, reactions, stamina, melee, strengthMelee, strengthThrowing, firingReactions, rank, fatalWounds, healthCurrent, tuCurrent, energyCurrent, moraleCurrent, stunCurrent, healthNormalized, tuNormalized, energyNormalized, moraleNormalized, stunNormalized, energyRegen, mana, manaCurrent, manaNormalized

FIXME: describe what each keyword means
There is also this example text
Armor 2 has negative HP recovery of 10% of soldier's normalized stun level (simulating slowly losing HP when in shock);
This is not super helpful. If normalized goes to 100 when you get knocked out it means you'd take 10 damage per turn, which is not slow. On the other hand, if it's 1 when you get knocked out then you take 0.1 damage per turn, and I don't even know how the engine handles noninteger damage.

The -0.165 normalized stun seems to exist on all armors, which the hints describe as "Anyone whose Stun level is thrice or more their current HP will start to slowly pass into its cold embraces. The rate is 1 HP per turn, but doubles when Stun level is 6x your current health etc."

So it's not a lot of hp loss, although I still don't really understand the math behind it.
Edit: I think it really is 0...1, so then when your stun is 3x your hp the hp loss is 0.495 (3*0.165), and the game rounds anything <0.5 to 0.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
9,920
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Hmm, so we're an attempt to make an army to rival the star gods? Be careful what you wish for...
kaOQKMM.png
This item counts as filling the prereqs to build a library. There's even a secret path for never joining the mutant alliance.
No regen, sadly, but vehicles recover all health after a mission anyways.
Nope. Auxilia do, but piloted vehicles function like armor. Take 100 damage, and you're in sickbay for a long time.
Accuracy is lacking though, and the 1 freshness per shot is per bullet, not action. Not sure how to sustain that for very long.
Eh, it's not hard for peasants to get like 150 freshness.
Honestly not much here is tempting aside from maybe the reticulan elder or some merc soldiers.
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One of these options is actually super strong, although it took me a shamefully long time to realize it.
Air sailors can give you intel on almost every ship in the game, which greatly reduces the size of the engineer/data disc reward tables. At 300k they're also really cheap. I think I wound up buying at least a dozen of them.
 

lightbane

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,241
There's even a secret path for never joining the mutant alliance.
I wish there was a humanist path. I feel bad killing them. Sometimes I just end a humanist pogrom by landing a ship and throwing credit coins out for them.
Checking the online Bootypedia,

You can recruit pureblood soldiers, close to what you want. This obviously antagonizes the Mutant Alliance and you can't have both.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
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Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
9,920
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
There's even a secret path for never joining the mutant alliance.
I wish there was a humanist path. I feel bad killing them. Sometimes I just end a humanist pogrom by landing a ship and throwing credit coins out for them.
Checking the online Bootypedia,

You can recruit pureblood soldiers, close to what you want. This obviously antagonizes the Mutant Alliance and you can't have both.
This is the secret path I was referring to. The requirements are kinda insane. You have to get library from X's database, then finish the longest branch of the X storyline, which culminates in a mission that is the 2nd hardest in the game, eclipsed only by cydonia assault. But you unlock it waaaaaaay earlier, so it could be argued it's harder since you're likely going to do with with a 12-size craft (and no vehicles), whereas for cydonia you get 36 units + vehicles (at least for the first parts, not sure you can bring them the whole way). Then you can recruit humanist purebloods, but they're just human males with better stats on recruitment that come with some weapons/armor that will be trash-tier by the time you get access.

I guess it is cool that it exists, but it really feels more like trolling than a legitimate path.

You do kinda end up subverting/running a part of the humanist org on this branch, although there are no gameplay consequences unless you satisfy the requirement of never having allied MA. Really lame considering the effort it takes, and half the promised reward is TBD.
 

Torus

Novice
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Messages
29
Is it important to shoot down a lot of shipping in this game? It feels like there's a lot of missions already with the events and base assaults without adding more.
 

Jaedar

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Joined
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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Is it important to shoot down a lot of shipping in this game? It feels like there's a lot of missions already with the events and base assaults without adding more.
Are you really getting that many base assaults?

As for important... you will eventually have to shoot down enemy ships because it's the only reasonable way to get some lategame captives (star gods never land after all), and it's always a good source of money and score. But I guess it's not entirely mandatory to shoot down every ship? Some of them are for sure not worth the effort imo.
 

Torus

Novice
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Messages
29
By assaults i mean defenses but yeah 2 per month or so. Maybe part of it is that i built 8 bases for farming etc. Gets kind of annoying after a while. But i am curious how long i can skate by using 98% dogs/blood hounds for defense.

I guess it's mostly the massive tech tree that makes me want to sit in peace and research.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
9,920
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
I guess it's mostly the massive tech tree that makes me want to sit in peace and research.
It's better to go out there. You need lots of interrogations to finish, and it's better to start early I think.
g 98% dogs/blood hounds for defense.
Until demons start appearing I'd guess.

Also, lp dead on page 40?
 
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